Anyone sim a 24mm Estes Mercury Redstone ?

[Huxter]

Gettin ready to start one of the newest #1971s. Estes says it should weigh 3.7 oz complete. Mine would be 4.0 oz or more! That's the limit of a C6-3. I would like to use D12 or E9 engines. I have a 24mm mount for E engines already. I would (try) to cut the center of the stock centering rings to accept the 24mm motor tube.

Wondering if anyone has simmed this, and how stable it should be w, say, an E9-6?

Also wandering if anyone has left the tower un-painted? The plastic is already red, and seems close in color!? This could save some weight?

And why are the launch lugs raised/stood out from the body tube - is it to clear the capsule?

This will be my first scale (semi scale) model. Not going for correctness, just so people will recognize it!

I have had bad experiences w Testor's plastic cements (especially that blue tube crap!) Anyone have a specific cement to use - one that has served you well in the past, or just use CA!?

Thanks for all replies!
Pat

 

[Charles_McG]

I built one with a 24mm mount. It cones a little with a C11 - it will want noseweight for anything bigger.

I didn't paint the tower.

The capsule does overhang the bodytube a bit.

 

[Rex R]

with the addition of 14g of nose weight it does best on a C11 anything bigger and you stand to loose it.
Rex

 

[Incongruent]

I used the watery cement, the kind with only solvent.

Yes for launch lugs.

The plastic seems to have to deform for all the knobs and holes to line up, that results in light pink areas where the plastic bends.

What I did was bevel the fins one half at a time (for the larger part) using masking tape as to prevent over-sanding. Took at least 30 minutes per pair, though it turns out nice. I glued them with wood glue and the edges warped away from each other, but by holding them together they bonded. If you use this method, just make sure to hold the tips while gluing or maybe CA them. The two parts of the fin were papered, the fin was assembled, and the edges CAd. Final sanding resulted in a good knife edge bevel. (Bevel as usual on the other part of the fin, masking tape and sharpied medium CA on the edge. Better explaination on https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/ )
The fin fairings I made with cardstock, I'll send a pic of a drawing and the measurements & angles.

My launch tower detatches for flight after the three capsule slices, the end is plugged with a cardstock circle (theres a lip) underneath that is a few circles of balsa and a small (#216 if that means anything) eyelet that the capsule chute clips onto. Weight is under the circles. You need weight, the Estes Redstone is barely stable when built stock, I've heard reports that it starts squiggling when boost ends.

Good luck!

 

[Nytrunner]

I've never had a stability problem.on the C6-3. That being said, I sharpied the capsule, left the launch tower red, and only lightly blacked the fin pattern, so I can imagine it's and lot lighter than hardcore scalers' builds. Never had a recovery problem other than a dislodged fin tip.

I bet a D12 would be amazing if you were able to borrow someone's Chute Release ��. Stick a C6 in the back, note the CG, then add weight accordingly so the CG is the same on a 24mm motor. Plenty of room in the capsule for clay or washers.

 

[swatkat]

I have both 18mm and 24mm, and will note that I've never had an issue with the C6-3 and flight stability/power. That rocket weighs in at 4.0Oz without motor. I'd say it hits about 225 feet. My 24mm I added 2/3 Oz of weigh to the "bell" in the form of 4BB and a bunch of glue. It is a great flier on the D12-5, and still doesn't go that high. I'd say somewhere around 500 feet max. If you purchase the solar Warrior on Estes discount, they have the same sized tubes and the SW is a 24mm rocket that weighs 3.2 Oz. I just have two of those, one with 18mm and one with 24mm as well.
18mm launch in a 8MPH wind this last week at a pretty steep angle, straight up is right at apogee. [video=youtube;RYT7o8QKhl0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYT7o8QKhl0[/video]
I'll take my 24mm one next month and get a video with the D12-5.

 

[K'Tesh]

Gettin ready to start one of the newest #1971s. Estes says it should weigh 3.7 oz complete. Mine would be 4.0 oz or more! That's the limit of a C6-3. I would like to use D12 or E9 engines. I have a 24mm mount for E engines already. I would (try) to cut the center of the stock centering rings to accept the 24mm motor tube.

Wondering if anyone has simmed this, and how stable it should be w, say, an E9-6?

Also wandering if anyone has left the tower un-painted? The plastic is already red, and seems close in color!? This could save some weight?

And why are the launch lugs raised/stood out from the body tube - is it to clear the capsule?

This will be my first scale (semi scale) model. Not going for correctness, just so people will recognize it!

I have had bad experiences w Testor's plastic cements (especially that blue tube crap!) Anyone have a specific cement to use - one that has served you well in the past, or just use CA!?

Thanks for all replies!
Pat

Simmed the Estes Mercury Redstone? Yes. 24mm powered? No.

The lugs are on stand-offs to clear the base of the capsule like you thought.

There's a lot of tricks that I poured into that sim that would make it hard to use for accurate flight characteristics. However, a smart fella could modify it to do that.

 

[Huxter]

Awesome info - thanks to all! Gotta love this forum!

I will go w a 24mm mount. If I make it light enough, maybe a 18mm adapter can be used? We shall see...

I have never seen these "C11"s you guys keep talkin about! They're discontinued now - right?

I will post pics of the build!

Thanks again,
Pat

 

[Lowpuller]

Huxter

I am trying to do the same thing, but can't find the correct centering rings.

 

[Incongruent]

Trace the provided ring on a paper, cut the circle in half using the geometry skills you probably learned in High School, (two congruent circles with overlap, such as in a Venn diagram with the centers on the circle, line through the ends of the almond shape created in the middle) then bisect the line (same process but the circles start at the intersections of the line and circle and the radius is the diameter of the circle)
Now you have the midpoint and can draw a circle to match your OD of the 24mm tube, preferablly undersized a bit for error. Then glue (spray glue works, temporary bond is all that's needed) the paper onto the CR (more accurate to glue the CR to the back of the paper) and cut out. Repeat (or you could make copies, but the geometry is fun in my opinion)

Or draw up rings from a drawing/ rocket modeling software (I know rocksim can, not sure about OR)

 

[Charles_McG]

I think erockets/Semroc has the ST20 to BT50 centering rings.

I had to sand the capsule panels quite a bit to get them to fit in the base. I have a Mercury Atlas in the build pile - it will be interesting to see if it needs the same adjusting.

 

[samb]

...

I have never seen these "C11"s you guys keep talkin about! They're discontinued now - right?

...

I sure hope not ! Great in-between motor for when a D12 is just a little too much "up" and the C6 is not enough. Not normally carried locally, at least in my neck of the woods, but available at many fine online outlets:

https://www.hobbylinc.com/estes-c11...urce=froogle&gclid=CI7n8e-ql9ECFU07gQoduDMDMw


https://www.acsupplyco.com/estes/engines.htm


https://www.erockets.biz/estes-model-rocket-motor-c11-3-2pk-1522/

 

[NAR29996]

I just checked the package on my unopened Mercury Redstone, and the diameter is definitely not 3.686 inches. The .ork file might be in error.

 

[Incongruent]

I had to sand the capsule panels quite a bit to get them to fit in the base. I have a Mercury Atlas in the build pile - it will be interesting to see if it needs the same adjusting.

So did I. Then I tried pushing two of them outwards, they all fit but then there was wiggle room!

 

[byoungblood]

I'll have to see if I made a video, but I converted mine to a 24mm mount so I could give it a bit more of a kick off the pad with a C11. I've flown it twice with no extra nose weight (both on relatively calm wind days) and both were beautiful flights, outside of the aerospike popping off (no idea where it went to) on the first one.

I used mini-rail buttons on mine, I just shimmed them slightly to clear the rim on the capsule.

 

[K'Tesh]

I just checked the package on my unopened Mercury Redstone, and the diameter is definitely not 3.686 inches. The .ork file might be in error.

Really?!

Or, Perhaps I needed a phantom body tube or two to get the fins to look right (or to add the engine hook). When the developers of OR add a feature that allows parts (such as fins) to be located "in space" in a Z axis, I won't need to add PBTs.

 

[Rex R]

the MR bt is just a (red) hair over 2" dia..
Rex

 

[samb]

"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". As true on Kronos as it is here. In order to make the most hyper-accurate visual presentation K'Tesh uses all kinds of invisible constructs in some of his OR files. Flight sim accuracy is sacrificed. But they look real pretty! :grin:

 

[NAR29996]

"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". As true on Kronos as it is here. In order to make the most hyper-accurate visual presentation K'Tesh uses all kinds of invisible constructs in some of his OR files. Flight sim accuracy is sacrificed. But they look real pretty! :grin:

OK, now I get it.

 

[Charles_McG]

Or Luna. As in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

 

[K'Tesh]

"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". As true on Kronos as it is here. In order to make the most hyper-accurate visual presentation K'Tesh uses all kinds of invisible constructs in some of his OR files. Flight sim accuracy is sacrificed. But they look real pretty! :grin:

Couldn't have said it better.

Thanks!

 

[slipkid757]

[video=youtube;Rq35MJDswDA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq35MJDswDA[/video][/video][/YOUTUBE]

Here is a 24mm mount with a C-11-3.

 

[slipkid757]

[video=youtube;pfVYYK7_A0c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfVYYK7_A0c[/video][/video][/YOUTUBE]


Here is the D motor so you can compare.

 

[kevinkal]

Nice flights and videos. Thanks for sharing those.

I can't tell from the video angle if the 3 second delay was well timed for the D12-3 flight. How close to apogee was the ejection? My gut tells me that a 5 second delay would be appropriate for the #1921 Estes Mercury Redstone modified to fly on a D12 motor. But then this scale kit likely has a higher drag coefficient than most it's size and weight.

I replayed the D12-3 video and counted seconds after hearing the motor burn out. If the first "puff" noise after burnout and the short fat streak of white smoke are the ejection.. I'd guess that the Redstone was still climbing at a decent rate.

 

[jrkennedy2]

18mm D10-5w worked VERY well twice so far.

 

[Pointy_end_up]

Has anyone tried modifying an already built 18mm motor mount in a redstone to a 24mm mount? What might that entail? Some kind of way to bore out the old mount? Holding everything so that the bore stays on center seems like it could be a bit tricky.

 

[K'Tesh]

Has anyone tried modifying an already built 18mm motor mount in a redstone to a 24mm mount? What might that entail? Some kind of way to bore out the old mount? Holding everything so that the bore stays on center seems like it could be a bit tricky.

I'd suggest just buying another kit, and building it for 24mm to begin with.

 

[Rex R]

think I might be inclined to use an 18mm D . biggest problem I see is getting the motor hook out of the way first, from there a drill press would likely do well.
Rex

 

[Pointy_end_up]

Yeah, I wrote that before thinking about the 18mm D's. They cost more than the C11's but doubtful the time, effort, and risk of messing it all up will make it worth it. Plus, the same amount of time could have been just spent building it for a 24mm mount. Sometimes I type before i think.

 

[Huxter]

[video=youtube;pfVYYK7_A0c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfVYYK7_A0c[/video][/video][/YOUTUBE]


Here is the D motor so you can compare.

Way cool! Thanks for posting the 2 videos for comparison - I REALLY liked the D12 launch!