Quantcast

Anyone ever build a rocket that was too big to fly where you lived?

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

PayLoad

I don't do spirals
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
212
Reaction score
227
Location
Orefield, PA
I have a couple 5-10,000 ft rockets & nowhere to fly them. (I'm near Philly)

I took them to CO and could not fly them there, either (winds a constant 30mph)

Is this the early sign of senility? I feel like an idiot.
 

neil_w

Marginally Stable
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
10,671
Reaction score
3,662
Location
Northern NJ
Take them to MDRA. Yeah it's a bit of a hike, but worth it to get those birds in the air once in a while at least.
 

mbeels

Yes balsa
TRF Supporter
Joined
Feb 9, 2019
Messages
2,543
Reaction score
1,330
I agree, you're not far from where I live. MDRA has a waiver to 17k feet, and a pretty decent recovery area (minus a quarry and some clusters of trees), but it is about as good as it gets in the NE. The next launch is coming up:


It'd be a 2-3 hour drive for you, but probably worth it (I think). Come on down, hope to see you there. So far the weather for that weekend looks nearly ideal. Hope it holds up.

FWIW, here is what Higgs Farm looks like:

 

NateB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
1,528
Reaction score
1,344
Location
NE Indiana
How close to home do you consider "where you live?" I can comfortably fly most LPR and MPR low in a park near my house, but to fly much above 1000' or anything bigger I need to drive between 90 mins and 3 hours for club launches. Fortunately those fields have waivers at 12k and 13k which doesn't restrict me at all right now.
 

PayLoad

I don't do spirals
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
212
Reaction score
227
Location
Orefield, PA
I'm in the same boat - 1000 feet max around me - 1500 if I'm feeling lucky. 90 minutes to 3 hours is perfectly acceptable.

I was on the plains of CO and KS last week, the wind just never let up
 

neil_w

Marginally Stable
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
10,671
Reaction score
3,662
Location
Northern NJ
I'm in the same boat - 1000 feet max around me - 1500 if I'm feeling lucky. 90 minutes to 3 hours is perfectly acceptable.

I was on the plains of CO and KS last week, the wind just never let up
Note that Radical Rocketeers in NJ has a 5000' waiver, which may not be enough for your big stuff but still something. About 2 hours from Philly, depending on which side of Philly you're on.

By the way, none of this is evidence that you're *not* going senile. ;)
 

dr wogz

Fly caster
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
5,917
Reaction score
1,134
Location
Land of Poutine!
Philly to Potter / Geneseo NY is about 5.5hrs driving. Make a weekend of it and hit both / either URRF & NYPower.. What I do! (Meet Tim, Teddy, Mike, and a slew of others!)

They are 3 day events, each a month apart.. (NYPower is typically in late May / memorial day. URRF is late June)

(But then again, my "local" field is just an hour away with 10k feet.. but I do need to cross an international border, 2 states, and the same lake.. twice.. )
 

samb

Lifetime Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
3,879
Reaction score
267
Location
Plano, TX
I have a couple 5-10,000 ft rockets & nowhere to fly them. (I'm near Philly)
...
More like Allentown, right Payload ? The Eastern Shore might be a hike but the 2 day ESL coming up next weekend might warrant an overnighter.

MDRA ESL 263 - Higgs Farm

[edit] Oops, saw mbeels already posted the link.
 
Last edited:

neil_w

Marginally Stable
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
10,671
Reaction score
3,662
Location
Northern NJ
If it is Allentown, that's barely an hour from Radical Rocketeers, so keep that in mind if you want an easier day trip to fly up to 5000'.
 

PayLoad

I don't do spirals
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
212
Reaction score
227
Location
Orefield, PA
Secondary question - G80s are my favorite. I am not level one certified but I fly clusters & stages of 4-5 G80s. Hassle? I could replace the main thrust with an H to get certified, but will I be allowed to fly with say 4 clustered Gs?
 

neil_w

Marginally Stable
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
10,671
Reaction score
3,662
Location
Northern NJ
Technically, of course, you should not be flying that. Obvious answer is to get certified.

If they check your cert status at the launch then they will say no. However, I don't know how rigorously they check everyone.
 

NateB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
1,528
Reaction score
1,344
Location
NE Indiana
No, with clustered motors if the total impulse of the cluster exceeds 160N, you'll need a Level 1 cert.
 

PayLoad

I don't do spirals
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
212
Reaction score
227
Location
Orefield, PA
Not trying to cheat, avoid, or anything - I can just as simply replace the main of the clustered 4 with an H and get certified on the shot, yes?
 

OverTheTop

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
4,659
Reaction score
1,928
Location
Melbourne Australia
For my half-scale Nike Apache (O3400-M2020) I had to drive half way up Australia (two days of driving) to fly it at a particular event. The Nike Smoke and Apache could be flown independently to lower altitudes, but the full stack needed a higher waiver for around 40k' that I didn't have available in my state.
OnRailResize.jpg
 

Nytrunner

Pop lugs, not drugs
TRF Supporter
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
7,583
Reaction score
3,165
Location
Huntsville AL
No, with clustered motors if the total impulse of the cluster exceeds 160N, you'll need a Level 1 cert.
I believe the clustered limit is 320 N-s before you need high-power certification

However the 125gram propellant limit for Class 1 flights still applies. If you're exceeding that limit, and the flight is conducted without an approved waiver/COA, you're committing an FAA violation
 

NateB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
1,528
Reaction score
1,344
Location
NE Indiana
I believe the clustered limit is 320 N-s before you need high-power certification

However the 125gram propellant limit for Class 1 flights still applies. If you're exceeding that limit, and the flight is conducted without an approved waiver/COA, you're committing an FAA violation
That's good to know. I thought each level applied to the equivalent thrust of the each motor class.
 

Nytrunner

Pop lugs, not drugs
TRF Supporter
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
7,583
Reaction score
3,165
Location
Huntsville AL
That's good to know. I thought each level applied to the equivalent thrust of the each motor class.
Over 80N single motor thrust requires L1.
Over 160N-s single motor Impulse requires L1
Over 320N-s cluster motor Impulse requires L1
----All of the above are Rocketry certification limits for-----
----The below are FAA Class 1 limits-----
125 gr or below installed propellant is Class 1 and doesn't require a waiver/COA
Loaded vehicle weight of 1500gr or below is Class 1 and doesn't a waiver/COA

This information is available on the NAR.org website, and probably on tripoli.org too
 

afadeev

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Sep 21, 2017
Messages
1,500
Reaction score
722
I can just as simply replace the main of the clustered 4 with an H and get certified on the shot, yes?
Not familiar with your rockets, but bring one with a 38mm MMT to fly an H, get L1 certified on an early morning flight, and then fly whatever you like the rest of the day.
Constraints lifted.

1H motor costs way less than 4 G's, anyway.
H130W is even non-Hazmat!
 

mbeels

Yes balsa
TRF Supporter
Joined
Feb 9, 2019
Messages
2,543
Reaction score
1,330
Just pick the NAR or Tripoli route ahead of time, so you can get the right forms and find the right people/person to sign off on the flight. It may help to send a heads up email ahead of time just so you can make sure that someone would be available. But yeah, that's pretty much it. I believe you also need to be an MDRA member to fly, but that's also easy to take care of ahead of time via the website.
 

JimJarvis50

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
2,463
Reaction score
703
For my half-scale Nike Apache (O3400-M2020) I had to drive half way up Australia (two days of driving) to fly it at a particular event.
Three day drive for me to Blackrock. Done it many times. It's the only alternative for my rockets. And my wife has gone with me on most of those trips.

If I say I'm not going for some reason, she says "why not!".

Jim
 

dlb

Sky Pyrate...
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
1,259
Reaction score
102
I build projects with the idea that they were gonna be launched at The rocket pasture, Kansas. 50k Waiver.
 

mooffle

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 20, 2020
Messages
239
Reaction score
133
So not quite as intense as most of the responses here, but I like small park fliers 100-400 ft A-C. About 6 years back I bought a hydra vii because I thought the kit was just awesome. Didn't fly it or even finish painting it until this year, because even though it says it can fly on a C6-3 that hardly seems appropriate for such a thing.
Why fly a massive cluster rocket on one engine to almost no height‽

Thankfully I was able to get a toooon of B6-6s for cheap and get the cluster output the hydra deserves but also keep it low for my park limit. Definitely broke my record for delaying a maiden flight on that kit.
 

PayLoad

I don't do spirals
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
212
Reaction score
227
Location
Orefield, PA
This one is just testing the stability of the design - If you look in the pic, the real bird with all the electronics, separating boosters, self ignition is in the backgroundIMG_8520.JPG
 
Top