Another Decal Problem - Need Some Wisdom

[markschnell]

I applied these decals last night. They were clear and looked great when I put them. This morning when I checked the clear had all turned a greenish color. There was even green splotches where the Microset had been had run on the rocket. That wiped off with a wet paper towel but the color is under the decals, it's there to stay.

Here's what I used. I painted this Orion Starfighter clone with Krylon Metallic-Gold Leaf over Krylon gloss black. I was extremely pleased with how how the paint looked. I used some older decals from Tango Papa that I had coated with Microscale liquid decal film. Then I applied them and used a liberal amount of micro set.

I saw in some old threads that people suggested clear coating metallic finishes because they are rough for applying decals. I didn't see anything about this weird tarnishing, though.

Anyone else ever have this happen?

BTW - I applied decals on the white stripe at top of the model and there was none of this discoloration there, It has to just be the metallic paint.

 

[afadeev]

I applied these decals last night. They were clear and looked great when I put them. This morning when I checked the clear had all turned a greenish color. There was even green splotches where the Microset had been had run on the rocket. That wiped off with a wet paper towel but the color is under the decals, it's there to stay.

Here's what I used. I painted this Orion Starfighter clone with Krylon Metallic-Gold Leaf over Krylon gloss black. I was extremely pleased with how how the paint looked. I used some older decals from Tango Papa that I had coated with Microscale liquid decal film. Then I applied them and used a liberal amount of micro set.

I saw in some old threads that people suggested clear coating metallic finishes because they are rough for applying decals. I didn't see anything about this weird tarnishing, though.

Anyone else ever have this happen?

Yes, sort-of.
My discoloration wasn't green, but grey.
They looked perfect when I had applied them, but developed a background color after I had sprayed Clear-coat over them.
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/coronavirus-work-from-home-build-thread.158551/#post-1984200
The decals were from a old kit that went out of production 10+ years ago, and likely older still, since latter year kits included stickers and not waterslide decals.
I am still not sure what had caused it, but there are at least three (3) possibilities:

1. The decals glue had deteriorated with age, and/or reacted with the main paint layer (maybe because I didn't allow enough time for it to cure completely?).
2. The decals film had deteriorated with age, and reacted poorly with the Clear-coat layer of paint.
3. The main layer of paint did not provide smooth-enough surface for the decals to adhere evenly, our out-gassed as it was curing, and tiny air bubbles were introduced between the layer of paint and the decal film.

Consider this scenario as well.
If nothing else, the British pronunciation of "decal" is worth your time:


HTH,
a

 

[KenECoyote]

Metallic gold & silver paint coatings are difficult. I don't reco any clear coating...I experimented with as many metallic silver and gold paints I could find a number of years back and all looked horrible with any type of clear coating. The coating would basically remove the metallic and make it dull in color. I suspect what happened to you is a combination of that plus maybe some reaction.

In case others are wondering, the best chrome spray paint I found was Spaz Stik Mirror Chrome...best by far, but fingerprints mess it up very easily (letting it dry & harden for months seems to help ).

 

[stantonjtroy]

The paint you used has a copper content to the flake (can still look gold). The solvent you used on your decals had a reaction much like a penny in acid though not nearly so bad. This is why there was no problem over the white but showed in the runoff. The solution is to seal the paint w/ clear before applying decals (acrylic is best for this situation) or don't use the setting solution. Greying is typically caused by a reaction between clear coat and the decal adhesive itself.

 

[KenECoyote]

The paint you used has a copper content to the flake (can still look gold). The solvent you used on your decals had a reaction much like a penny in acid though not nearly so bad. This is why there was no problem over the white but showed in the runoff. The solution is to seal the paint w/ clear before applying decals (acrylic is best for this situation) or don't use the setting solution. Greying is typically caused by a reaction between clear coat and the decal adhesive itself.

My experience with clear coating metallics was pretty bad and I tried almost everything. I'm pretty sure I clear coated with acrylic clear coat spray and even acrylic floor polish (Future/Pledge). Anyone have a good experience clear coating a metallic gold or silver paint? I tried dozens of combinations.

Here's a sample of one of my rockets...I gave up clear coating since I just couldn't find anything suitable that would keep it shiny instead of graying it (note there are self-adhesive stickers which work well enough on the paint):

 

[neil_w]

My experience with clear coating metallics was pretty bad and I tried almost everything. I'm pretty sure I clear coated with acrylic even. Anyone have a good experience clear coating a metallic gold or silver paint? I tried dozens of combinations.

I've clear-coated Rusto Stops Rust Metallic Silver with Future on two rockets with no problems whatsoever.

 

[KenECoyote]

I've clear-coated Rusto Stops Rust Metallic Silver with Future on two rockets with no problems whatsoever.

Haha, I just updated my post with more detail before you replied Neil! I'll have to go try that combo some time. Thanks!

 

[neil_w]

Admittedly the silver areas are small, but they all look good to me. Some of the silver bits are painted decal paper, but the surface is still Future on Rusto Silver Metallic.

(click for larger)

 

[jetlag]

Allclad silvers are the best. Doesn't fingerprint like enamels and laquers out of a can. Must use an airbrush to apply. I then use the Pledge.
Works great without the headaches.

 

[markschnell]

This has turned into a good discussion about coating metallic finishes. My original post was about the reaction that took place between the decals and/or Micro Set and the gold metallic Krylon paint. Does anyone have experience putting decals over the Future/Pledge. In my situation I think I need to out some kind of gloss coat over the gold before applying decals, but I don't want the gold finish to be blah.

 

[neil_w]

@hcmbanjo has mentioned this on his blog multiple times: if painting with matte paint, apply Future where the decals need to go to provide a glossier base for them.

 

[markschnell]

@hcmbanjo has mentioned this on his blog multiple times: if painting with matte paint, apply Future where the decals need to go to provide a glossier base for them.

Cool, thanks for that. I'm going to sand the rocket back down and start over. The Orion Starfighter is a pretty cool kit and I've too much time into it to go halfway now.

 

[markschnell]

@hcmbanjo has mentioned this on his blog multiple times: if painting with matte paint, apply Future where the decals need to go to provide a glossier base for them.

What I found on his blog was that he put the Future over just the decals and not the whole rocket. I couldn't find anything about putting Future down first.

 

[Speaknoevil]

What I found on his blog was that he put the Future over just the decals and not the whole rocket. I couldn't find anything about putting Future down first.

Over the years I have done this both ways, both on matte and gloss color coats, and have seen no appreciable difference on the look or durability of the decals or the rocket as a whole.

 

[stantonjtroy]

It's funny, you'll get many different Ideas from many different people. Most folks swear by their methodology (because they've figured out how to make it work for them, DUH). Example: I, personally, would NEVER use Future on anything but a floor. I know! Hundreds of people do it with a great deal of success. I won't/can't. I'm a painter/Composite tech by trade so I use PAINT. That's why I don't often suggest paints, many people don't have access to a spray system (airbrush/spray gun, booth, etc.). Sadly for many, that's where you'll find the best metallics. I guess the point I'm trying to make is listen to what people say, set up a few test articles, and go with what works best for you in your situation/skill set/facility. This is supposed to be enjoyable. If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong.

 

[markschnell]

This is supposed to be enjoyable. If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong.

Love it! Thanks for the advice.

 

[neil_w]

What I found on his blog was that he put the Future over just the decals and not the whole rocket. I couldn't find anything about putting Future down first.

https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2016/12/more-rockets-mach-10-build-part-11.htmlhttps://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2016/07/estes-interceptor-build-1250-part-22.html