(Another) Aerotech Phoenix Build

Discussion in 'Rocket Boosted Gliders' started by ECayemberg, Jan 23, 2017.

  1. Aug 17, 2018 #31

    ECayemberg

    ECayemberg

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    Thanks Craw!!! It's the result of a marriage of the box art, underside pattern from my go-to r/c plane (70cc Laser 230z), and whatever Monokote/Ultracote colors I had on hand. So far so good!

    Thanks Bob! Can't wait...though like normal, I could use an extra week or two for prep! Oh well, some of us work better under pressure!;)

    Thanks for chiming in, Frank! Great job with your flight(s) with the new long burner Super Thunders....excellent glider motor options....LOVE IT!!! I thoroughly enjoyed seeing the photos and video from the flight....NICE!!!
     
  2. Aug 17, 2018 #32

    ECayemberg

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    Quick update...time is growing short and though I'm getting closer, there's more work to be done!

    Only a few photos taken, but here they are. Several steps left undocumented!o_O

    The tail surfaces were sanded. For a consistent airfoil, I tacked the elevator to the horizontal stabilizer. Once sanded to shape, elevator and horstab were separated via X-Acto.

    [​IMG]1 by ECayemberg, on Flickr

    Same trim scheme on the horstab as on the main wing. Here the bottom side of the covered horstab and elevators.

    [​IMG]2 by ECayemberg, on Flickr

    There's a bit of blending to do between the fuselage pod, boom, and motor tube. Therapeutic shaping of balsa!!! When satisfied with the blending, I was happy with the result, but couldn't help but think that a bit of lightened epoxy filleting might be beneficial to fill the gaps and smooth it all out. The film covering would've been fine, but I couldn't resist. So, post blending, pre filleting photo....Note: the compound, complex curves do NOT show up in the photo.:mad:

    [​IMG]3 by ECayemberg, on Flickr

    A very small batch of epoxy was mixed up, then blended with fairing filler to decrease density and increase fillet-ability and sandability. It was added to the conjunction junction. Looked like this. Between the two sides, something like 0.9 grams of fillered epoxy was added to the fuse.

    [​IMG]4 by ECayemberg, on Flickr

    ...and that's about it for now. Fuse needs covering and servos need installation and to be connected to the control surfaces!
     
  3. Aug 17, 2018 #33

    BBrown

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    Eric,
    Your aircraft looks phenomenal! I'm really looking forward to this. Sometimes we forget that the rocketry hobby has several nooks and crannies that can be explored. Folks tend to fixate on bigger, higher, and faster when it comes to rocketry. Unusual flights like these tend to stick out in one's memory after a large launch. Case in point, I was at the LDRS up in Bong. One of the very few flights that I remember was that cluster mess you flew that had stuff flying multiple directions. It was really really cool! By the way, if you want to bring that rocket to AirFest, I'll find a place for you to fly it and even help pick up the pieces!
    See you in a couple of weeks,
    Bob
     
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  4. Aug 17, 2018 #34

    ECayemberg

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    Thank you sir!!! Much appreciated!

    I lost one of the fins to The Dog People Detractivator at that LDRS and one of the motors actually cato'd causing some damage. So...it's going to require some surgery (and another 20 24mm BP motors), but how about next year's LDRS at the Rocket Pasture!?!? :):):)
     
  5. Aug 17, 2018 #35

    BBrown

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    Deal!
     
  6. Aug 20, 2018 #36

    JoeG

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    My Phoenix is finished except for adding some graphics and I want to get a trim flight on it before getting to AirFest The CG came out remarkably close on this one compared to some of the others I have built.

    Also want to get a couple of other rocket flights in with L and M motors for the more conventional folks. Keep your eyes open for the Tripoli Mid Ohio bunch.
     
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  7. Aug 21, 2018 #37

    Bruiser

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    Looks very nice. I keep wondering if it would be possible to down size a little to use D motors...

    -Bob
     
  8. Aug 24, 2018 #38

    burkefj

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    there was a prototype 3/4 scale version that was made and given to Bob parks and he subsequently gave it to one of my customers who recently built it and flies it on the 24 millimeter E6 long burn Motors and it's very nice, but that version never went into any production. I believe it was the same company that took up production of the larger Phoenix kits that did the three quarter scale prototype. I think you'd have to go smaller and lighter to get something to work with D Motors.
     
  9. Aug 28, 2018 #39

    ECayemberg

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    Sorry for the long silence...was away on vacation without any service. Thankfully, the Phoenix came along and I was able to put some time into her completion.

    Don't think I'll get much of a chance to do test flying before Airfest, but she's almost done!

    [​IMG]PHX1 by ECayemberg, on Flickr
     
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  10. Aug 28, 2018 #40

    BBrown

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    Well done sir! I talked to Charlie at Aerotech yesterday and they had shipped four of the brand new G11 motors with the 14.2 second burn for us to enjoy. We need to talk to Joe and Jay but the weather forecast looks like these should be the Sunday morning start of the launch day.
     
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  11. Aug 28, 2018 #41

    Bruiser

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    Very nice! SO let me ask, how long is the typical flight?

    -Bob
     
  12. Aug 28, 2018 #42

    BBrown

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    No idea! The Phoenix has never been flown on this motor to the best of my knowledge. Most of my past flights could have been much longer than they were. Looping and rolling under boost adversely effects your glide time!
     
  13. Aug 28, 2018 #43

    burkefj

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    Remember to double check your CG since these single use motors weight about an ounce more and are longer than the G-12 32mm reload and you'll need to adapt it to fit, you can fit the 29mm motor into the empty 32mm casing in a pinch but that is a weight penalty.

     
  14. Aug 28, 2018 #44

    BBrown

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    Noted! I have built four lightweight 29 to 32mm adapters (one for each flyer) so that these will slide right in. We will have our balance machine on site to get the CG correct.
     
  15. Aug 28, 2018 #45

    burkefj

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    I'm glad you got some, I was told by Gary they were waiting for production casings still and Jenn said I couldn't order the G-12's yet, maybe these are pre production motors, I think you'll like them.

     
  16. Aug 28, 2018 #46

    JoeG

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    Mine is ready. Sunday sounds fine to me. I still have a pretty good supply of the G-12's from the past and five or six cases.
     
  17. Aug 29, 2018 #47

    KevinM

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    When I'm flying in flat air and not fooling around I usually get about 2:45 out of mine on a G12. YMMV.

    KMc
     
  18. Aug 29, 2018 #48

    JoeG

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    Looks good Eric. I was going to do a Cub theme but Bob has already done so. Mine is more of a stealth glider now. Blue and silver. With a 14 second burn and an invisible airplane with these old eyes it should be interesting. ;) I did put on some hot pink graphics.

    Really looking forward to the gaggle of gliders. I know it's pretty tame compared to many of the other flights that will occur but at my age I can't take too much excitement anyway. :)
     
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  19. Aug 29, 2018 #49

    Bruiser

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    That is more than I expected based on watching some videos on you tube of other rocket powered planes. Pretty awesome!

    -Bob
     
  20. Aug 30, 2018 #50

    BrAdam

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    Eric, are you going to have that at TWA September launch?
     
  21. Sep 4, 2018 #51

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    Well. . . we did it! Sorta.
    Myself, Jay Bailey, Eric Cayemburg, and Joe Grubb did fly our Phoenix gliders Sunday morning at Airfest. After Charlie Savoie from Aerotech handed us the G8 motors, it became apparent that this motor was longer and heavier than the motor the glider was designed for so trying to get the GC right for flight was iffy at best. We decided in the interest of safety, we would fly them on the Aerotech 32mm G12 motors. We lined than up and pushed the button! All but Joe's lit and for a minute or so there were three rocket gliders that have been out of production for about 20 years in the sky's over Kansas.
    A little of me was a bit happy that Joe's didn't go on the first try. With mine down, I got to watch an RC master perform the first flight of a new rocket glider. He is sooo much better of a pilot than I am, it was a thrill to watch.
    If you were there I hope you enjoyed it. From my point of view, it's about as cool of a thing that you can witness on a combined impulse of 348.8 Ns. If you missed it, there is already talk of doing it again at LDRS 38 but this time with FIVE Phoenix gliders!
    Bob, Jay, Eric, and Joe.jpg
     
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  22. Sep 4, 2018 #52

    Jmhepworth

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    Bob, it was fun to watch. Glad your “stare” persuaded the RSO to sign off and let you launch. See you again next year.

    Joe
     
  23. Sep 4, 2018 #53

    ECayemberg

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    Hi Brad,

    Sorry, can't make the September launch....that weekend is booked! I need to find a soft landing zone at the Bong for this thing...the Bong weeds would be rough on the landings!
     
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  24. Sep 4, 2018 #54

    ECayemberg

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    What a stellar way to kick off Day 3 of Airfest! A true pleasure to fly alongside some of the greatest rocketry personalities in the Country!!! ....and just a little bit of a redemption flight after Friday and Saturday's activities...despite the playful ribbing from Skippy!:) It's good to be loved!;)

    The count may be at 6...I'm recruiting! Hey Joe, you still cutting foam cores????

    Thanks for RSO'ing the rowdy bunch, Joe! I thought Bob was going to jump over the table for a second....maybe just go right through it!;)
     
  25. Sep 5, 2018 #55

    JoeG

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    Actually I can cut cores and I have plans that can be copied at no charge (If Aerotech will allow it. Charlie? Gary?) All of the parts outlines are there and you can build your very own Phoenix, preferred rocket powered aircraft of the Kloudbusters Air Show Team.
     
  26. Sep 5, 2018 #56

    JoeG

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    I really enjoyed watching the three of you fly. Everyone did a great job. Kind of like a covey of quail that was surprised at the very beginning as the three of you jumped into the sky and then after about 9 seconds of burn everything was quiet and kind of majestic. My plane was pretty much spot on in trim which made me look better than I really am. Bob said I had a lot of nerve flying in front of so many people with a new plane. I think it's more a lack of good sense. This is a great rocket glider but you do need some experience with R/C before attempting to fly one of these. Thanks again for letting me come out and play with you guys.
     
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  27. Sep 5, 2018 #57

    BBrown

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    Kloudbuster Air Show Team I really like that! My wife owns an embroidery business. There will be hats for the participants next year!
     
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  28. Sep 24, 2018 at 8:25 PM #58

    Mike Sykos

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    Hi Guys, just finished a phoenix build myself. Built and flew one in the 90's when they first come out. This one I got from eBay and it didn't come with a 32mm reload case. What are some of the 29mm alternatives I can use? Still need to cover it and cut the alirons out.
     

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  29. Sep 24, 2018 at 9:02 PM #59

    ECayemberg

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    That looks awesome, Mike!!!

    Motors I would try...

    Aerotech SU: F20W, F25W, F23FJ, F27R,
    Aerotech DMS: G8ST
    Aerotech RMS: G25W (verify CG)
    Estes E16, F15 (verify CG)

    Make sure to remove or plug ejection charges from any non-plugged motor. The key is to find a low average thrust motor in a short-ish case. The 32/60-100 stock hardware is short and squat, 29mm motors of equal total impulse will be longer, which is *bad* for the Phoenix, which is a nice bird to fly, but sensitive to CG changes.

    I'll be trying a G008 ST this weekend in mine; will have to add some noseweight to accommodate the longer motor (which is all aft of the CG). Doing so will mess up my glide trim for the next flight....oh well!
     
  30. Sep 24, 2018 at 9:22 PM #60

    Mike Sykos

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    Can't wait for the first flight, last time I flew a rocket was NARAM 36 1994, placed in every event I entered. Last time I flew a phoenix was around that same time. When I started flying r/c gliders in rocketry we were still using pulse systems.
     

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