# Announcing Siegecraft Electronics - Circuit board based electronics mounting.

### Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

#### boatgeek

##### Well-Known Member
Would anyone else besides me be interested in a one that holds a Quantum, Quark, 2 small lipos, and dual pull pin switch in a 3" coupler?
I would be sold on 2.6”, and 3” would fit one of my rockets. That one has a sled already so I don’t NEED a new sled. On the other hand, it’s pretty janky so it wouldn’t be the end of the world to replace it.

#### HHaase

##### Siegecraft Electronics
Would anyone else besides me be interested in a one that holds a Quantum, Quark, 2 small lipos, and dual pull pin switch in a 3" coupler?

:::raises hand::::

If I lay the board out right, and keep them totally isolated, then it would also apply to anybody that just wants a single quark or single quantum.

#### SecondRow

##### Well-Known Member
:::raises hand::::

If I lay the board out right, and keep them totally isolated, then it would also apply to anybody that just wants a single quark or single quantum.
One of my goals this year is to learn dual deploy. I bought a quantum over the winter. This board setup would work for me, wouldn’t it? Now I just need a rocket to put it all in.

#### CPUTommy

##### Thrust cures All
SEVERE INTEREST IN THIS !

GREAT IDEA !

can you use the back of the pcb board for other things? Other trackers, lipo batterys etc ?

##### Well-Known Member
:::raises hand::::

If I lay the board out right, and keep them totally isolated, then it would also apply to anybody that just wants a single quark or single quantum.
sign me up for a few of these. Ideally in 2.6" as well

#### PatD

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Would anyone else besides me be interested in a one that holds a Quantum, Quark, 2 small lipos, and dual pull pin switch in a 3" coupler?
yup

#### HHaase

##### Siegecraft Electronics
I will tell you guys one thing that drives me up the wall. 1S battery connectors! One thing is for certain though, as per the manufacturers documentation I can only offer Raven mountings with 9v or 1s options, and those 1s connectors are proving to be troublesome. Too much variety and the hobby terminology doesn't usually match actual manufacturer part numbers. I'll leave options for 2.0mm and 1.5mm pitch battery connectors on the board but holy moly is it going to be a pain keeping track of things.

I did revise that board a touch to reduce the size to 69mm x 100mm in order to comfortably fit inside an Estes 3" coupler, and made a few other tweaks at your requests.

-Hans

Last edited:

#### Mike Haberer

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
I will tell you guys one thing that drives me up the wall. 1S battery connectors! One thing is for certain though, as per the manufacturers documentation I can only offer Raven mountings with 9v or 1s options, and those 1s connectors are proving to be troublesome. Too much variety and the hobby terminology doesn't usually match actual manufacturer part numbers. I'll leave options for 2.0mm and 1.5mm pitch battery connectors on the board but holy moly is it going to be a pain keeping track of things.

I did revise that board a touch to reduce the size to 69mm x 100mm in order to comfortably fit inside an Estes 3" coupler, and made a few other tweaks at your requests.

-Hans
As I commented previously, the number of permutations borders on the ridiculous. I think to be successful, you may need to have some base standards that people will have to just live with to begin with. For example, forget 1S LiPos and use 2S as the base with resistors on the boards for altimeters that need to be voltage and/or current limited. Basically, you need an overarching architecture concept that provides flexibility while minimizing offshoot variants like battery connectors. I would also think that standardizing on a handful of the most common configurations would be prudent. Non-redundant dual deploy for each major altimeter option out there (RRC3, RRC2L, StratologgerCF, Proton, Quantum, Quark, Raven4, EasyMini). More limited configurations for redundant DD that are the most common (RRC3 & RRC2L, Eggtimer dual Quantums, dual StratologgerCF's, StratologgerCF & RRC2L ). Boards for higher priced altimeters are going to be low volume, they could be special requests for those special projects that have a large budget and need the kitchen sink. You might consider doing a formal survey with possible options on TRF so you can get an idea of where to focus your time and efforts to help spin it up efficiently.

#### HHaase

##### Siegecraft Electronics
Agreed on all counts. The more exposure I get to other altimeters I haven't had experience with, the better that base architecture is going to be. Raven was my first pick mainly because this grew out of a specific setup I developed for an oddball mounting need along with some issues with wiring failures in the field. So there is going to be an inherent bias at the start toward my own altimeter and mounting preferences, until I get a feel on the market.

I completely agree that supporting the 1s variety is just going to be too much chaos. In the case of Ravens, that means 9v as standard but I'll have some holes in the board if people want to source 2mm or 1.5mm pitch connectors or wire in a pigtail of their own for 1s batteries. Given the variety of potential ignitors that people may want to use, the last thing I want is to start reducing voltage or current to their charges.

If it wasn't for that peculiarity, I would have started with Eggtimer products from the start, as the DIY nature of them makes some mounting solutions easier to develop. That's why I'm rapidly building up my Eggtimer library. That and I think the Wifi switches are just so stinking useful.

For the REALLY high end guys, to be quite honest, I don't see this service being much use to them. Most of those guys are probably already doing this kind of work as custom to their own builds. Though on the flip side I think they'll also have much more defined requirements that would make engineering a product for them a lot easier. They'll probably be coming at me with full schematics and dimensioned drawings.

-Hans

#### Nytrunner

##### Pop lugs, not drugs
TRF Supporter
Stratologger CF and RRC3 (and RRC2) are good footprints. I like the SLCF/RRC3 combo

#### Reinhard

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
You can increase the number of supported configurations, without introducing a ton of SKUs, by carefully looking which altimeters are compatible. For example, mounting-wise the AltusMetrum EasyMega and TeleMega are pretty much the same, with the only difference in the length and hole pattern. It's trivial to design a PCB footprint that supports both. With a bit more effort, a single footprint can support multiple altimeter types.
So if, for example, you design a "Type A" socket the supports both the EasyMega and the TeleMega and a "Type B" socket, that supports the RRC3 and RRC2-Mini and PET+, a single board with one of both can be configured for 6 different configurations.

Most altimeters follow the same electrical pattern, with two pins for battery, switch, apogee and main. Combining two or three altimeters into a pattern, should be easy. With higher numbers things will get trickier when the footprint starts to look like a swiss cheese. Some altimeters, like the Raven or RDAS, use common terminals. Those require more thought, especially when you want to combine them with the more widespread types. A detailled understanding of the involved types *) or the use 0 Ohm resistors to configure a board for a specific altimeter can help here. It also helps to check back with the manufacturer; some combinations will be more tricky than others.

A drawback, especially with smaller rockets, is that the size of socket will always be determined by the biggest supported altimeter.

Reinhard

#### tollyman

##### Well-Known Member
I have designed and had made a very similar type product early last year, but I don't plan on selling. I designed mine so that it could take dual stratologgers or a strstologger and a raven. I used JST-XH connectors so my altimiters could easily be taken in and out of rockets and not have to wire any of the rockets, literally plug and play. I designed mine to fit into 3" av bay and also have a seperate 54mm design. I also but the connectors on the bulkhead sides so that when removing a bulkhead it's just one connection. This is flown several times and I have confidence in the connections and design. *SOME THINGS TO NOTE* I designed this to have redundsnt traces wherever possible. So most of my traces are mirrored on the front and back of the board. I did emperical testing to make sure the PCB is capable of taking the looks I plan on using without destroying the PCB. (Also included resistor mounting points for current limiting that can be jumpered by a wire if they arnt desired.) My suggestion would be to get rid of the 9v battery tray and just have terminal blocks for battery input, it will make the system much more flexible. I couldn't find the size of the sled but make it as compact as possible so iflt can fit in more standard size rockets. And test what the sled can handle, I don't know what background you have or what standards you used for designing the PCB, so for me it would be hard to trust it in a big rocket. My short circuit testing showed that my dual trace design can take up to a 1000 2s lipo with 30C rating for just over a second before failure and that's the biggest battery I would install without resistors. Although unlikely it is possible for the ignitor to go short circuit after the charge goes off. Most altimiters have a 1 second "on time" for charge deploemt but some can be set as latching or constantly on (like the raven). That's enough of my rant, cool product, just want to make sure we are all being safe about it

#### Attachments

• 69.9 KB Views: 50

#### HHaase

##### Siegecraft Electronics

Bad news! I've been so swamped the past couple weeks with pinball stuff that I haven't had any chance to get the finalized board orders in. So I missed the window before Chinese New Year. Will be end of the month before I have anything ready to go.

Good News! Finalizing the design for a custom integrated version of the LabRat switches. Looking real nice too.

#### jqavins

TRF Supporter
If this came up already then I've forgotten. Are you planning, now or in the future, to put any discrete components on carrier boards, or just the daughter boards being integrated? Don't take "just the daughter boards..." the wrong way; it's a great idea, and I'm merely musing over what if anything might be done by adding a resistor here or a diode there as well.

For example, and only because I've been thinking about it recently:

Either battery can run both busses in the event that the other fails. But it will never try to charge the other battery. And if it's one bus that's shorted out, the fuse protects the other battery.

Since your boards already have the battery connections, the fault isolated backup battery configuration requires only the addition of the two diodes and the fuse.

#### HHaase

##### Siegecraft Electronics
All depends on the situation. For instance, some of the Eggtimer devices need a load on un-used channels and some altimeters may not have a visible power indication. And that's without also considering the previously mentioned current limiting resistors.

So some will be just integration boards, some will add functional components.

#### HHaase

##### Siegecraft Electronics
Ok, the Raven boards are ordered with all the needed tweaks. Ready to sell in about 2 weeks.

-Hans

#### Arpak

##### Well-Known Member
All depends on the situation. For instance, some of the Eggtimer devices need a load on un-used channels and some altimeters may not have a visible power indication. And that's without also considering the previously mentioned current limiting resistors.

So some will be just integration boards, some will add functional components.
I believe theres a way to disable the unused channels. Atleast for the quantum's drogue channel, can't speak for the others.

#### mtnmanak

##### TRA & NAR L2
TRF Supporter
Hi Hans - Any update on these boards? Would love to try one out!

#### HHaase

##### Siegecraft Electronics
Got the latest batch of boards in, got the parts in, and then I promptly took a week and a half off while family visited.

Should be just a couple more days before I'm ready to sell the first ones. It's all here, I just need to assemble and test a sample, and sort out pricing.

#### WillMarchant

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
I looked through the thread and didn't find a way to figure out the "current state" of the product. I'm potentially interested, but would like to get the details on the current (and future?) offerings. Thanks!

#### HHaase

##### Siegecraft Electronics
Short version is that I've been getting absolutely swamped with my pinball business, and it's been a real struggle to do any development work.
I even started a rocket build thread, and then all I've done is epoxy the motor retainer to the motor tube.
It's been bonkers like I've never seen before.

The good news is that all I have right now for the first release is to get some pictures and flight test this weekend.
I've got a stack of boards and a stack of parts, these are 95% ready to sell.
Pricing will be at $20, with your choice of either a 9v battery holder or 3D printed sled to hold a 1S battery. Due to the variations, you'd need to supply the pigtail for the 1s battery. Raven and Eggfinder Mini-Wifi switch are NOT included. There's also an option for using another 4-pin screw terminal header for alternate switches in place of the Eggfinder. Size is 70mm x 100mm. If things go well this weekend with flight testing, they'll be available on Monday, May 3rd. #### bobbyg23 ##### Well-Known Member TRF Supporter Short version is that I've been getting absolutely swamped with my pinball business, and it's been a real struggle to do any development work. I even started a rocket build thread, and then all I've done is epoxy the motor retainer to the motor tube. It's been bonkers like I've never seen before. The good news is that all I have right now for the first release is to get some pictures and flight test this weekend. I've got a stack of boards and a stack of parts, these are 95% ready to sell. Pricing will be at$20, with your choice of either a 9v battery holder or 3D printed sled to hold a 1S battery.
Due to the variations, you'd need to supply the pigtail for the 1s battery.

Raven and Eggfinder Mini-Wifi switch are NOT included.
There's also an option for using another 4-pin screw terminal header for alternate switches in place of the Eggfinder.

Size is 70mm x 100mm.

If things go well this weekend with flight testing, they'll be available on Monday, May 3rd.

View attachment 461795
Can't wait to see this on Saturday.

#### HHaase

##### Siegecraft Electronics
Flight tests went fantastic. Just need to get the photos taken and put them on the website for the first iteration.
So just another couple days, by Monday at the latest

#### HHaase

##### Siegecraft Electronics
I need to clean up the website, but the first sled boards are now available to order. They are priced at $20, and I do a flat-rate shipping at$5 anywhere in the US. International shipping has been giving me trouble for quite some time, so if you wanted to order internationally you'll need to e-mail/message me to get that set up.

I'm going to be cleaning up the product listing soon to make things clearer, as well as getting some 1S lipo options available for this one soon too. If anybody wants to do lipo, I just need to know the battery measurements. Will need to be a WIRED battery, as there's too many connector variations for me to build it into the board.

You can also check out all my pinball stuff as well while you're on the site at www.siegecraft.us
I'll be adding a rocketry specific tab too pretty soon.

#### mtnmanak

##### TRA & NAR L2
TRF Supporter
I need to clean up the website, but the first sled boards are now available to order. They are priced at $20, and I do a flat-rate shipping at$5 anywhere in the US. International shipping has been giving me trouble for quite some time, so if you wanted to order internationally you'll need to e-mail/message me to get that set up.

I'm going to be cleaning up the product listing soon to make things clearer, as well as getting some 1S lipo options available for this one soon too. If anybody wants to do lipo, I just need to know the battery measurements. Will need to be a WIRED battery, as there's too many connector variations for me to build it into the board.

You can also check out all my pinball stuff as well while you're on the site at www.siegecraft.us
I'll be adding a rocketry specific tab too pretty soon.
I am going to order one to try out. Would love to see a version that has a 9 volt and LiPo - 9 volt for the Raven, LiPo for the WiFi switch. The WiFi switch sucks down quite a bit of juice.

#### HHaase

##### Siegecraft Electronics
Yeah, that’s one thing that testing showed me, the mini-WiFi is a hungry little beast. Thankfully the Raven is a miserly thing and runs at pretty low voltages. It’s about the only altimeter I’d feel comfortable running with this switch and battery combo.

I’m already looking at 1s solutions, as 2S aren’t a good match to the Raven. But in the long term I think lipos will be superior here. Just a matter of mounting though as the board already has a couple options for the wiring pigtail.

#### mtnmanak

##### TRA & NAR L2
TRF Supporter
Yeah, that’s one thing that testing showed me, the mini-WiFi is a hungry little beast. Thankfully the Raven is a miserly thing and runs at pretty low voltages. It’s about the only altimeter I’d feel comfortable running with this switch and battery combo.

I’m already looking at 1s solutions, as 2S aren’t a good match to the Raven. But in the long term I think lipos will be superior here. Just a matter of mounting though as the board already has a couple options for the wiring pigtail.
Placed an order for the current one.

I would be totally comfortable running the whole thing with a 2S if you can get it to fit in a future version. Great stuff!

Last edited: