ANNOUNCEMENT: OpenRocket 24.12 beta 1 is now available for download

[kjhambrick]

I somehow posted a dupe ... sorry ...

 

[kjhambrick]

It's the windowing/desktop environment that's important not the underlying Linux distro.

Agreed.

But I found out on my KDE desktop that the Java version mattered too.

-- kjh

 

[thzero]

Debian is actually the distribution I've been using since before Ubuntu even existed. It's a fine choice, that gives the user a lot of control over their installation.

I use the xfce desktop, and haven't been seeing the issues. I expect he's probably using gnome, so I'll be checking things out under it.

Nah, I don't think it's gnome. But that is why I suggested to try install the gnome DE.

 

[thzero]

Debian is actually the distribution I've been using since before Ubuntu even existed. It's a fine choice, that gives the user a lot of control over their installation.

I'm enjoying arch Linux these days. KDE as primary. But when needing a DE in a VM I tend to use xfce, yeah.

 

[kjhambrick]

I thought I recalled a much-appreciated ChromeOS thread last year by @4regt4: TRF > I'm running OpenRocket on my Chromebook

Did OR 2309 work ok for you before updating to 2412 ?

-- kjh

 

[4regt4]

I thought I recalled a much-appreciated ChromeOS thread last year by @4regt4: TRF > I'm running OpenRocket on my Chromebook

Did OR 2309 work ok for you before updating to 2412 ?

-- kjh

The version previous to 2309 (I forget it's designation) worked perfectly. 2309 has a few glitches that are easy to work around. But oddly, the glitches are inconsistent from window to window. i.e. The pop up window for some components work fine, others not. 2412 solved all the 2309 issues, the only glitch - which is new - is the pop up dialog for opening files, for example. But the keyboard (ctrl- ) shortcuts work, mouse clicks don't. However, there is no keyboard shortcut for Preferences. I can't get there.

Hope that is of some use.

Hans.

 

[kjhambrick]

Back to 'other OR 2412 topics'

One for the Devs.

Attached is vul-73.ork which is the model for "Nocturnal Missions" ( aks NM ), a 73mm diameter LOC Vulcanite upscale.

It was one of the first rockets I 'created' in OR 2202.

I have since moved it to OR 2309 and now to OR 2412.

Now that I've gotten used to sizing the width of my working windows, I really do like the wide Warnings column

Thanks for the new feature !

But on the topic of warnings reporting ...

This will not be a good answer, but it's the only one I have: devs on the team before any current devs were involved appear to have thought that was roughly when the rocket was past transonic and into solidly supersonic. There's every chance that some day that warning will move to about .8 Mach and change to "Transonic and supersonic calculations may be inaccurate"...

NM on a K1100T on a 50F day just barely tickles Mach ( Mach 1.069 ).


So it does not include the 'supersonic warning' which is consistent with @JoePfeiffer's explanation ( and I agreee, mach 0.80 or 0.85 might be a better threshold as is 'transonic' instead of 'supersonic' ...

On another note, there is a warning for the SU 54x358mm K76WN-P which says:


Note that the warning says 155 ft/sec but the 'Velocity at Deployment" is only 51.7 ft/sec in the Sim Summary Row for the K76WN.

I looked at the plot and the 155 ft/sec does not appear around either deployment event ( apogee / main ).

It does not affect anything important ... just confusing.

I attached vul-73.ork in case the devs need it to look at it.

Thanks !

-- kjh

 

[JoePfeiffer]

Back to 'other OR 2412 topics'

One for the Devs.

Attached is vul-73.ork which is the model for "Nocturnal Missions" ( aks NM ), a 73mm diameter LOC Vulcanite upscale.

It was one of the first rockets I 'created' in OR 2202.

I have since moved it to OR 2309 and now to OR 2412.

Now that I've gotten used to sizing the width of my working windows, I really do like the wide Warnings column

Thanks for the new feature !

But on the topic of warnings reporting ...

<snip>

View attachment 685180

Note that the warning says 155 ft/sec but the 'Velocity at Deployment" is only 51.7 ft/sec in the Sim Summary Row for the K76WN.

I looked at the plot and the 155 ft/sec does not appear around either deployment event ( apogee / main ).

This is something that causes people a lot of confusion, and we're trying to find a good way to address it. The sim table is reporting total velocity, while the plot is showing vertical velocity. For some reason, when your drogue is deploying at apogee your lateral velocity is 155 ft/sec, which is what's causing the warning (I haven't looked at it enough to see why the lateral velocity is so high). Meanwhile, the table is only showing the velocity at main deployment but the issue is with the drogue.

 

[4regt4]

Thanks all for your suggestions on my issues with ChromeOS and Linux.

A few questions/comments:

1. I see that it's possible to install either Java jre or jdk on the Chromebook. But is this necessary or desirable? I note from the OpenRocket installation page: "These packages contain all of the needed dependencies, including the correct version of Java."

2. The DE: Some users say that ChromeOS IS the DE and can't really be replaced. But at "https://chromeos.dev/en/linux/setup" there is a section on "Visual package management". It says: " If you prefer to find, install, and manage applications and tools through an application with a graphic user interface, you can install" and has a link to "Gnome Software App", which going there leads me to believe that it is just a way to find and install apps, not an actual DE.

3. It's possible to install "Gnome Terminal", but I doubt that would have an effect on the UI. Or does it?

Thanks,

Hans.

 

[thzero]

Thanks all for your suggestions on my issues with ChromeOS and Linux.

A few questions/comments:

1. I see that it's possible to install either Java jre or jdk on the Chromebook. But is this necessary or desirable? I note from the OpenRocket installation page: "These packages contain all of the needed dependencies, including the correct version of Java."

2. The DE: Some users say that ChromeOS IS the DE and can't really be replaced. But at "https://chromeos.dev/en/linux/setup" there is a section on "Visual package management". It says: " If you prefer to find, install, and manage applications and tools through an application with a graphic user interface, you can install" and has a link to "Gnome Software App", which going there leads me to believe that it is just a way to find and install apps, not an actual DE.

3. It's possible to install "Gnome Terminal", but I doubt that would have an effect on the UI. Or does it?

Thanks,

Hans.

1. JRE is the runtime and JDK is the development package. You only need the run-time, see KJH's suggestion earlier. If you use the Linux run time packages, then no you don't need to install the JRE or JDK. If you are running OR, and you have been, this indicates that you are ok in this regard.

2. It may be that there is a DE (that is mostly the Chrome browser) that is running on top of the specific chromeOS linux. The dev sandbox is something separate and seems to be bundled with gnome utilities and a specific Windowing API and DE environment - whether thats the ChromeOS or not, I'm unsure. The Debian Linux is a separate container from the standard ChromeOS.

You can try, not sure if it'll work or do anything different, but here is how to install GNOME (the default for a standard Debian distro)

https://wiki.debian.org/Gnome

3. No, that won't help.

Here you go.
https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-library/guides/containers/crostini-developer-guide/

 

[4regt4]

1. JRE is the runtime and JDK is the development package. You only need the run-time, see KJH's suggestion earlier. If you use the Linux run time packages, then no you don't need to install the JRE or JDK. If you are running OR, and you have been, this indicates that you are ok in this regard.

2. It may be that there is a DE (that is mostly the Chrome browser) that is running on top of the specific chromeOS linux. The dev sandbox is something separate and seems to be bundled with gnome utilities and a specific Windowing API and DE environment - whether thats the ChromeOS or not, I'm unsure. The Debian Linux is a separate container from the standard ChromeOS.

You can try, not sure if it'll work or do anything different, but here is how to install GNOME (the default for a standard Debian distro)

https://wiki.debian.org/Gnome

3. No, that won't help.

Here you go.
https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-library/guides/containers/crostini-developer-guide/

Still experimenting....

In Terminal, I entered:

# apt-get install task-gnome-desktop

After a looong while of downloading and unpacking, it finished. But I still don't see a separate/different Desktop Environment. What I got is a bazillion apps, like games, LibreOffice, etc. They seem to open and work OK. But I really don't want or need them. I had to reinstall OpenRocket. It still exhibits the same behavior of pop up windows almost instantly closing after first appearing.

Hans.

 

[kjhambrick]

Still experimenting....

In Terminal, I entered:

# apt-get install task-gnome-desktop

After a looong while of downloading and unpacking, it finished. But I still don't see a separate/different Desktop Environment. What I got is a bazillion apps, like games, LibreOffice, etc. They seem to open and work OK. But I really don't want or need them. I had to reinstall OpenRocket. It still exhibits the same behavior of pop up windows almost instantly closing after first appearing.

Hans.

Hans --

This seems to be a pretty good video.

It is conceptually similar to what I would do on Slackware.

How to Switch Desktop Environments on Linux

Do be careful removing 'core' desktop packages !

HTH !

-- kjh

 

[4regt4]

Hans --

This seems to be a pretty good video.

It is conceptually similar to what I would do on Slackware.

How to Switch Desktop Environments on Linux

Do be careful removing 'core' desktop packages !

HTH !

-- kjh

Thanks.

His method seems to hinge on using the command "tasksel". When I do this, it gives me an empty list, instead of one populated with some choices as in the video. So even though I went through the motions of installing Gnome, it appears that it didn't "take". Linux under ChromeOS is supposedly sandboxed, and it looks like attempts to tinker with it don't work.

FWIW, the apps that installed with Gnome seem to work OK. In particular, the menus in LibreOffice don't suffer from rapidly disappearing dialog boxes.

Hans.

 

[kjhambrick]

Thanks.

His method seems to hinge on using the command "tasksel". When I do this, it gives me an empty list, instead of one populated with some choices as in the video. So even though I went through the motions of installing Gnome, it appears that it didn't "take". Linux under ChromeOS is supposedly sandboxed, and it looks like attempts to tinker with it don't work.

FWIW, the apps that installed with Gnome seem to work OK. In particular, the menus in LibreOffice don't suffer from rapidly disappearing dialog boxes.

Hans.

That's interesting because I believe under the hood, LibreOffice is using Java from my system-installed openjdk ( version 17.0.12 ) for the GUI.

From OpenOffice [Tools]->[Options]->[Advanced] I see:


OTOH, OpenRocket is using it's own local openjdk:

[konrad@kjhlt7 plt]$ /opt/OpenRocket-2412-b1/jre/bin/java -version
openjdk version "17.0.13" 2024-10-15 LTS
OpenJDK Runtime Environment (build 17.0.13+12-LTS)
OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 17.0.13+12-LTS, mixed mode)

My locally installed openjdk is the same major-number ( 17 ) but is one minor-number ( 12 ) behind OpenRocket ( 13 )...

[konrad@kjhlt7 plt]$ ver jdk
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 13481 Jul 22 13:16 /var/log/packages/openjdk17-17.0.12_7-x86_64-1alien

I wonder what the following command shows from a terminal on your chromebook ?

apt list --installed  |grep -i -e openjre -e openjdk

HTH

-- kjh

 

[thzero]

That's interesting because I believe under the hood, LibreOffice is using Java from my system-installed openjdk ( version 17.0.12 ) for the GUI.

I don't think its a JRE thing, think its a windowing thing with whatever oddball thing Google did with this under supported "dev" environment that they enabled.
But can be surprised so worth a shot.

 

[4regt4]

That's interesting because I believe under the hood, LibreOffice is using Java from my system-installed openjdk ( version 17.0.12 ) for the GUI.

From OpenOffice [Tools]->[Options]->[Advanced] I see:
View attachment 685580

OTOH, OpenRocket is using it's own local openjdk:

[konrad@kjhlt7 plt]$ /opt/OpenRocket-2412-b1/jre/bin/java -version
openjdk version "17.0.13" 2024-10-15 LTS
OpenJDK Runtime Environment (build 17.0.13+12-LTS)
OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 17.0.13+12-LTS, mixed mode)

My locally installed openjdk is the same major-number ( 17 ) but is one minor-number ( 12 ) behind OpenRocket ( 13 )...

[konrad@kjhlt7 plt]$ ver jdk
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 13481 Jul 22 13:16 /var/log/packages/openjdk17-17.0.12_7-x86_64-1alien

I wonder what the following command shows from a terminal on your chromebook ?

apt list --installed  |grep -i -e openjre -e openjdk

HTH

-- kjh

I hope you have a Sherlock Holmes deerstalker cap, as your investigations into this is quite amazing.

I tried the command that you suggested (actually did it on 2 computers) and got:

"WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts"

The other Chromebook is much newer. I just tried 24.12 on it, and have the same problem. Oddly, selecting the option to install it in addition to 23.09 didn't work. It seemed to replace all of the older version. So I had to uninstall/reinstall 23.09.

Thanks,
Hans.

 

[4regt4]

I don't think its a JRE thing, think its a windowing thing with whatever oddball thing Google did with this under supported "dev" environment that they enabled.
But can be surprised so worth a shot.

I wonder why the LibreOffice menu system works....

Hans.

 

[4regt4]

That's interesting because I believe under the hood, LibreOffice is using Java from my system-installed openjdk ( version 17.0.12 ) for the GUI.

From OpenOffice [Tools]->[Options]->[Advanced] I see:
View attachment 685580

OTOH, OpenRocket is using it's own local openjdk:

[konrad@kjhlt7 plt]$ /opt/OpenRocket-2412-b1/jre/bin/java -version
openjdk version "17.0.13" 2024-10-15 LTS
OpenJDK Runtime Environment (build 17.0.13+12-LTS)
OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 17.0.13+12-LTS, mixed mode)

My locally installed openjdk is the same major-number ( 17 ) but is one minor-number ( 12 ) behind OpenRocket ( 13 )...

[konrad@kjhlt7 plt]$ ver jdk
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 13481 Jul 22 13:16 /var/log/packages/openjdk17-17.0.12_7-x86_64-1alien

I wonder what the following command shows from a terminal on your chromebook ?

apt list --installed  |grep -i -e openjre -e openjdk

HTH

-- kjh

When I bring up the LibreOffice screen that you show above, the "JRE already installed" window is blank.

Hans.

 

[JoePfeiffer]

I'm hoping another Chromebook user chimes in...

I'll note that if you're using OR from our installers, your system version of the JRE doesn't matter. We install our own JRE (specifically so that's one thing we don't have to worry about when someone has problems we haven't seen).

 

[4regt4]

I'm hoping another Chromebook user chimes in...

I'll note that if you're using OR from our installers, your system version of the JRE doesn't matter. We install our own JRE (specifically so that's one thing we don't have to worry about when someone has problems we haven't seen).

I'm only one user, but I have 2 Chromebooks - one is an older Acer that is right at end-of-support, and the other is a fairly new Samsung. Interface behavior is the same for both, and for both 23.09 and 24.12. (23.09 had other problems, albeit minor and didn't affect usability) Both are Intel, if that matters.

Hans.

 

[4regt4]

I'm only one user, but I have 2 Chromebooks - one is an older Acer that is right at end-of-support, and the other is a fairly new Samsung. Interface behavior is the same for both, and for both 23.09 and 24.12. (23.09 had other problems, albeit minor and didn't affect usability) Both are Intel, if that matters.

Hans.

I think what I find most puzzling is that the pop-up windows themselves don't seem to be the issue, because I can access them if there is a keyboard short cut. Just not via a mouse click. But mouse clicks seem to work everywhere else in the program at this time, like the motor selection area. Just not for menu pop ups, like "Preferences". I also tried "right click" and tap on the mouse pad. Same result.

Hans.

 

[thzero]

I think what I find most puzzling is that the pop-up windows themselves don't seem to be the issue, because I can access them if there is a keyboard short cut. Just not via a mouse click. But mouse clicks seem to work everywhere else in the program at this time, like the motor selection area. Just not for menu pop ups, like "Preferences". I also tried "right click" and tap on the mouse pad. Same result.

Hans.

Open a support ticket with Google.