And the "I shattered my rocket into a million pieces" award goes to...

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Further, I don't see discussion of attachment point for the parachute. Based on a quick glance of the youtube video indicates that there was only the shock cord attached to the upper section. I find it to be good practice to make sure your shock cord is long enough to pull the entire parachute out of the disconnected section at full extension of envelope and shroud lines. For this reason, I always attach it to the portion that is blowing away, if you will.

There are other methods to ensure a tight parachute will come out as well. Baby Powder. Deployment Bag. More charge for more inertia to yank the chute out. Run your ematch below the parachute to blow the parachute out of the tube, instead of into the tube (which seems to be your current situation).
 
Further, I don't see discussion of attachment point for the parachute. Based on a quick glance of the youtube video indicates that there was only the shock cord attached to the upper section. I find it to be good practice to make sure your shock cord is long enough to pull the entire parachute out of the disconnected section at full extension of envelope and shroud lines. For this reason, I always attach it to the portion that is blowing away, if you will.

There are other methods to ensure a tight parachute will come out as well. Baby Powder. Deployment Bag. More charge for more inertia to yank the chute out. Run your ematch below the parachute to blow the parachute out of the tube, instead of into the tube (which seems to be your current situation).
We'll do some ground testing once the diameter is upsized. I wouldn't foresee an issue with a 6" tube if the parachute were about 4" in diameter.
 
We didn't have a chance to ground test when we put the larger parachute in.
Not to say the obvious, but self induced problem....

Plus did you check things after the rocket sat in the sun for a while? PETG behaves differently that fiberglass. The nice smooth surface of a fiberglass tube has much lower friction than a 3d printed tube. Maybe you need a sabot or deployment bag.

Mike K
 
Respectfully, moving to larger scale on the heels of a failure is recipe for more failure. I would measure success on the current size, and scale up from there...

This is how I feel too. I’m always a bit disconcerted when I see Well, THAT didn’t work, so we are going BIGGER next time. This is a big rocket for that approach.
 
Being a competition rocket, we don't have the time. We have a month and a 1/2 to have our competition rocket finished. We've succeeded on similar designs with smaller parachutes, just hard landings breaking the fin section.

Sounds like Go Fever is built into the competition.
 
Sounds like Go Fever is built into the competition.
The rocket was being retired after two test flights this past weekend, and we were going to begin the final rocket anyways. The difference is we have an extra motor now, which helps out with our expenses by saving $103.
 
The rocket was being retired after two test flights this past weekend, and we were going to begin the final rocket anyways. The difference is we have an extra motor now, which helps out with our expenses by saving $103.

I’m talking about the idea that you didn’t have time to ground test, probably contributing to in this failure. And now you don’t have time for more test flights or other tests before the deadline. You‘re going to pop that cubesat into a rocket that might not be adequately tested because of the competition deadline.

I understand that competitions have deadlines. There’s probably no way around that. I’m just thinking that sometimes these competitions teach that the deadline is more important than the results, and cutting corners is an ok engineering approach. That’s not a good mentality to bring into the “real world“. If a customer were paying for the cubesat launch, they probably wouldn’t appreciate the rush through the safety and reliability steps.

Anyway, end of rant. Good luck with your competition.
 
I’m talking about the idea that you didn’t have time to ground test, probably contributing to in this failure. And now you don’t have time for more test flights or other tests before the deadline. You‘re going to pop that cubesat into a rocket that might not be adequately tested because of the competition deadline.

I understand that competitions have deadlines. There’s probably no way around that. I’m just thinking that sometimes these competitions teach that the deadline is more important than the results, and cutting corners is an ok engineering approach. That’s not a good mentality to bring into the “real world“. If a customer were paying for the cubesat launch, they probably wouldn’t appreciate the rush through the safety and reliability steps.

Anyway, end of rant. Good luck with your competition.
The deadline isn't the only issue for us. Financial issues are also playing into it. We're trying to get support through GoFundMe; however, things have slowed quite a bit regarding donations. We honestly have just enough for the bare minimum supplies. We still don't have our travel accounted for.
 
The deadline isn't the only issue for us. Financial issues are also playing into it. We're trying to get support through GoFundMe; however, things have slowed quite a bit regarding donations. We honestly have just enough for the bare minimum supplies. We still don't have our travel accounted for.
I will support your flight. Slow down and learn from your mistakes.
 
This seems to be a common issue with college level competitions. The teams are a group of L0 rocketeers learning engineering and trying to fly a L3 rocket. They have a total lack of practical experience flying rockets so make decisions based on what their "engineering" tells them will work when in actuality those decisions are usually the cause of flight failures. 3D printing the rocket is a typical engineering decision done because of a lack of practical experience. It sounds good, but in practice, it can't withstand the forces of recovery and landing, especially a non-nominal recovery. The way the rocket shattered, could also have happened if the chutes had deployed correctly because I doubt anyone calculated the real force of impact at landing vs. the strength of the 3D printed materials.
 
This seems to be a common issue with college level competitions. The teams are a group of L0 rocketeers learning engineering and trying to fly a L3 rocket. They have a total lack of practical experience flying rockets so make decisions based on what their "engineering" tells them will work when in actuality those decisions are usually the cause of flight failures. 3D printing the rocket is a typical engineering decision done because of a lack of practical experience. It sounds good, but in practice, it can't withstand the forces of recovery and landing, especially a non-nominal recovery. The way the rocket shattered, could also have happened if the chutes had deployed correctly because I doubt anyone calculated the real force of impact at landing vs. the strength of the 3D printed materials.
@Handeman, with all due respect, I hold a Level 2 certification I obtained with a 3D-printed rocket [Luna Mk III design] (video linked below). We are not engineering this rocket and 3D-printing it for the competition because of a lack of experience, and this was intentional. The entire concept behind Project Luna is to design and manufacture a 100% 3D-printed modular rocket. We have already learned from failures and improved our design, this time around, a larger parachute was put in too small of a body tube, and that was the failure point.

Luna Mk III Maiden Flight - ICBM Research and Sport Launch
 
@Handeman, with all due respect, I hold a Level 2 certification I obtained with a 3D-printed rocket [Luna Mk III design] (video linked below). We are not engineering this rocket and 3D-printing it for the competition because of a lack of experience, and this was intentional. The entire concept behind Project Luna is to design and manufacture a 100% 3D-printed modular rocket. We have already learned from failures and improved our design, this time around, a larger parachute was put in too small of a body tube, and that was the failure point.

Luna Mk III Maiden Flight - ICBM Research and Sport Launch
I tend to look at rockets as a hobbyist looking for durability and longevity. I have a L1 rocket that is 20 years old and flown over 200 times. I have never seen a college rocketry program with those items as goals for what they build. I understand you wanted a 100% 3D printed rocket. What I am asking is, why? What were the original goals? Did you expect to prove or disprove the reliability of 3D printing rockets? You have improved your designs, but to what goal? Do you expect to surpass what can be done with other materials? Have you tested your 3D printed rocket against rockets of other materials for durability, strength, effective altitudes, payloads, etc.? Have you determined under what conditions or circumstances 3D printing is superior to other methods of construction?

Project Luna sounds like an excellent program for an engineering training program to teach new engineers the processes of engineering. From a college point of view where teaching and education is the top priority, that seems to meet those goals. It does not sound like a good project for creating a better or more effective rocket which I suspect is not one of the project goals. It's all about the real project goals. If I were running a company that wanted to make money producing an efficient rocket, I doubt 3D printing would have been the engineering choice for most of it.

You seemed to prove my point about lack of practical experience with your statement "this time around, a larger parachute was put in too small of a body tube, and that was the failure point." This is something that an experience rocketeer would have known. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with learning this through your own failures. We all do that, and for many college programs, it's an important part of the engineering training.

As for you being L2, with all due respect, that still doesn't say much about practical experience. I've met several college team members that have their L2 certs and have 0 LPR/MPR flights, one or two L1 flights and only their L2 cert flight outside of what their team has flown. In my experience, there are practical rocketry things that people flying A, B, & C motors in small rockets have learned that just isn't known by some of the college rocketry program members because they don't have the long term experience and haven't come up through the levels.

With all that said, I really do encourage the college programs to keep flying rockets and learning. They really are the future of professional rocketry which will trickle down to the hobby level, which is a great thing. I'm just saying that you don't know what you don't know and learning some of that is just reinventing the wheel because most of the mistakes you make have already been made by most of us.

Good Luck and high flights.
 
I will support your flight. Slow down and learn from your mistakes.

I would recommend a ground test prior to the next flight. That is what I should have clarified in this post.

It was clear from the flight and post flight review that there was an unforeseen design flaw that caused the parachute ejection to fail. It was not the size of the burrito but a bulge that then the bundle was pushed past it caused the bundle to hang.
 
I would recommend a ground test prior to the next flight. That is what I should have clarified in this post.

It was clear from the flight and post flight review that there was an unforeseen design flaw that caused the parachute ejection to fail. It was not the size of the burrito but a bulge that then the bundle was pushed past it caused the bundle to hang.
Ground testing is on the agenda once Luna Mk VI is done.
 
Back
Top