An "R"-powered rocket build

Discussion in 'High Power Rocketry (HPR)' started by Rail Dawg, Nov 30, 2018.

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  1. Dec 6, 2018 #121

    Pat Gordzelik

    Pat Gordzelik

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    .....

    Sorry guys, been a tad busy, plus I have been waiting to see what diverges over the rocket design and dry weight. I have Dude Perfect coming out to the ranch next week to shoot a video, so I am busy doing prep work for that (and yes, I heard it was going to be about rockets, so check em out on YouTube).

    The neat thing about designing your own power plant is that you can design it "around" your project, NOT the other way around.

    For instance. Have a big heavy slug for a rocket? Build the motor to BAM on the ground to get it moving, and then taper off to sustaining thrust.

    Want a realistic, slow takeoff of a project? No problemo, design a flat burn 4.5 to 1 thrust to weight ratio.

    Whatever we decide we want, I have the equipment to do a full motor test giving me thrust, MEOP/operating pressure, time, even exhaust heat and hardware external heat temps from bulkhead to nozzle.
    I assisted TMT for years certifying mfg motors for commercial release, and I can assure you no mfg of commercial hobby motors at that time, or now to my knowledge, had any testing beyond thrust and time.
    (Notice Anthony and Gary, I said "hobby" motors....

    Gonna be fun. When we do a full up motor test before we commit it to project flight, we'll post it on youtube and provide you folks the link.

    Pat G
     
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  2. Dec 6, 2018 #122

    Pat Gordzelik

    Pat Gordzelik

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    O, I forgot to post one of the P motor tests we did.



    Notice the length of the motor after the burn when Jay Holcombe walks up to it.

    Jay is 6'1" btw

    Pat G
     
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  3. Dec 6, 2018 #123

    Rail Dawg

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    Anyone know how many Q motor casings might be out there?

    I feel lucky to have gotten the one I have. It was built about 15 years ago by a master machinist who has a passion for rocketry. It’s never been fired.

    I’m impressed with how far this hobby has come.

    Guys like Pat G. and Scott S. have put big reliable motors into the mainstream.

    Should this Q project fly well I must admit it’d be fun to step up to an R.

    Not sure the cost of the casing as it would obviously be custom-made. But getting the Q casing to a good machinist and ask to have it scaled up would be interesting to pursue.

    Most of you know Pat G. Having him as the motor builder for this project is such a blessing. Pat has contributed so much to our hobby and it’s great that he is finding the time once again to continue his good work.

    I also appreciate all of you. This past week has definitely made me confident that this project will fly well. Your inputs are critical to the success of this rocket.

    One thing I don’t know is the largest experimental motor that has been flown by a Tripoli member. If anyone knows that info would be appreciated.

    As always... thanks. It’s humbling to be a part of such a smart group of people.

    Chuck C.
     
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  4. Dec 6, 2018 #124

    Pat Gordzelik

    Pat Gordzelik

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    Pat & Dan w motor_0044.jpg
    Thanks for the kind words Chuck,

    As far as R powered projects, my very dear friend Paul Robinson, and a host of Tripoli members including Frank Kosdon, both deceased btw,
    flew this projects.

    http://highpowerrocketry.blogspot.com/2011/02/our-r-motor-project.html

    And of course Ky Michealson and crew flew the Go Fast project,

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Space_eXploration_Team

    And then, although never flown (sigh, no vehicle was ever built for it), was test fired in New Mexico at Antelope Flats.
    It was my biggest motor. An S51000.

    Pat G
     
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  5. Dec 6, 2018 #125

    Bat-mite

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    re: post #119
    If you are just looking for weight, then sure. But, of course, to run a sim you need a real motor file. I would be very surprised if Scott doesn't have one for his Q motor.
     
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  6. Dec 6, 2018 #126

    FredA

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    My booster at Balls this year was an R-16500.
     
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  7. Dec 6, 2018 #127

    Homer_S

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    There is also a way to add a custom motor. I've done this for thrust curves. With some digging you should be able to create a new motor file with its own weight (filled and empty).

    Homer
     
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  8. Dec 6, 2018 #128

    Rail Dawg

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    Hi Fred where did you get the R casing?

    Chuck C.
     
  9. Dec 6, 2018 #129

    Rail Dawg

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    Ahh good idea.

    Scott do you have a file for that Q?

    Chuck C.
     
  10. Dec 6, 2018 #130

    Rail Dawg

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    Can you guys recommend what router bits I should get for making this big a rocket?

    Just got the latest Bosch MRP23EVS plunge router.

    This is going to be such a fun project!

    Chuck C.
     
  11. Dec 6, 2018 #131

    rharshberger

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    A 1/4" spiral upcut carbide bit will improve chip removal but if fed to fast will increase tearout ( small splinters at edge of cut). A spiral downcut will reduce tearout, but will also reduce feed speeds to prevent chip loading and overheating.
     
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  12. Dec 6, 2018 #132

    FredA

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    Hi Fred where did you get the R casing?

    Tube Service Co. was the start...then our shop....
     
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  13. Dec 6, 2018 #133

    Rail Dawg

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    So I don’t need a variety of bits?

    Best to get one each of the two you mentioned to see what works best?

    Thanks.

    Chuck C.
     
  14. Dec 6, 2018 #134

    Rail Dawg

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    Word on the street this Q project is actually a baby R motor.

    Pat G. still running numbers but it’s looking R-ish lol.

    Chuck C.
     
  15. Dec 6, 2018 #135

    Steve Shannon

    Steve Shannon

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    If it’s truly 30” diameter, stand it up on end on the plywood, get inside and mark it with a pencil, and cut it with a jigsaw.
     
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  16. Dec 7, 2018 #136

    Rail Dawg

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    Steve that’s a great idea!

    It would be a near-perfect diameter cut.

    Chuck C.
     
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  17. Dec 7, 2018 #137

    rharshberger

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    Just make sure it round before you cut it, sonotube can be slightly out of round, hence the recommendation to use a circle cutter to get true and accurate circles.
     
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  18. Dec 7, 2018 #138

    Theory

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    this my friend (speaking to the OP) is quite the project. no doubt, and this has played out, that with something of this magnitude you will get many different ideas on how it could/should be accomplished, and many if not all have merit.

    having a good amount of experience with composites, I believe that they are the answer to many of your challenges. they are light, strong and easily formed into whichever shape and dimension that you require. overall strength here is going to be a key as a "draggy" Q or small R powered rocket will experience tremendous loads; loads that composites (when properly laid / constructed) can handle with ease)

    wishing you the best and looking forward to seeing this play out
     
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  19. Dec 7, 2018 #139

    Rail Dawg

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    Theory welcome to the forum!

    Please know that I value your inputs moving forward.

    This is the biggest composite rocket I’ve ever built and am looking forward to watching it take the stress from a really big motor.

    Don’t hesitate to jump in!

    Thanks.

    Chuck C.
     
  20. Dec 7, 2018 #140

    Rail Dawg

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    We’re talking about the circle jig right?

    If so then yes I’ve got one coming.

    Picking up my first 10 sheets of birch plywood tomorrow morning.

    Sonotube next week.

    Time to get started now that there’s a rough idea on size and weight.

    Chuck C.
     
  21. Dec 7, 2018 #141

    RandyM

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    Glad to hear you're back Pat. Was thinking a while back I haven't heard your name mentioned for quite a while.
    Quite happy I made the decision to attend LDRS next year!
    Looking forward to seeing your motor fly along with the necessary evil attached to it! :)
     
  22. Dec 7, 2018 #142

    rharshberger

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    Yes, the sonotube can be slightly "egged" and with the use of a cicle cutting jig you can get nice true round rings, which will ease the building process as the parts will mate up nicely and it will remove the out of round from the ends of the sonotube.
     
  23. Dec 7, 2018 #143

    Ez2cDave

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    Chuck,

    If it's looking "R-ish", you might want to get a Pirate costume for the launch ( ARGH ! ) - LOL !

    Dave F.

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    cc01353-ruthless-rogue-men-pirate-halloween-costumes.jpg




    feathered-red-pirate-hat.jpg
     
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  24. Dec 8, 2018 #144

    troj

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    Note: Thread title changed at OP's request
     
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  25. Dec 8, 2018 #145

    Rail Dawg

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    Thanks Kevin.
     
  26. Dec 8, 2018 #146

    Wallace

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    Probably a bit late to the game since it appears as though you've been "ordering stuff"...But, there's really no need for all those fancy/costly circle jigs and plunge type routers. I consider it fortunate that I grew up relatively poor. I believe it is directly related to my current ability to simply look at what is currently "around" me and utilize it in a field expedient way to perform whatever task is needed. When I was young it was basically "if you can't make/modify it you simply won't have it". Be it a tool, bike,skateboard,whatnot my brother and I would scrounge the neighborhood for castoffs and make what was "needed". Just look around you, everything's a tool. Here's a few pics of my circle jig. Built it years ago, at that time I was working probably 60 hours a week and could easily afford a high end circle jig/router combo. In lieu of getting in the truck and driving 1/2 an hour each way and throwing a bunch of money at a jig and plunge base router, I looked around the garage, saw what would work and just utilized it. Made from a piece of an old No Trespassing sign. No need for even a plunge base router, at least for larger diameters, it has enough flex to simply lift the router to start your cut. Just do the math for what's needed (must factor in bit diameter), drill a hole for a center locating screw and rout your heart out. Probably took me 1/2 an hour to make. If you need larger circles (painfully obvious that you do) simply start with a larger piece of stock. I've even used a piece of nylon masons line to cut really big radii, takes a bit more concentration, but as long as you keep it taut it'll get you what you need. The project you're considering is gonna require a lot of "outside the box thinking" so just look around and think about how you can re-purpose and or make the tools/parts required. As an added bonus homemade tools/jigs tend to be a lot more versatile since you're not bound by someone else's design. 20181208_053350.jpg 20181208_053338.jpg 20181208_053325.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
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  27. Dec 8, 2018 #147

    Rail Dawg

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    Good stuff there Wallace!

    Chuck C.
     
  28. Dec 8, 2018 #148

    Tyler P

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    This rocket should be called "Rated-ARRRRRR!"
     
  29. Dec 8, 2018 #149

    Rail Dawg

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    Today I'm heading out to look for 30" Sonotubes and Birch plywood.

    Avoiding the "Big Box" stores there are some really good finds especially for the plywood on Craigslist.

    I've never been great at taking pictures no matter what the project.

    But in order to gather input as this moves along I figured I'll post some shots.

    Back in my earlier rocketry days there wasn't an Amazon where you order a part and it's sitting on your front porch 2 days later. Already have the router and the circle jig out of their boxes.

    You know you're a geek when you're excited to read a router owners manual lol!

    Since my hot-blooded Latin woman is out of town I figured I'll cut some circles right here on her island... ;)

    IMG_4753[1].JPG
     
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  30. Dec 8, 2018 #150

    tomsteve

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    new thread later today:
    anyone know how to repair router marks in an island before my hot-blooded latin woman gets home?
    :D
     
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