An "R"-powered rocket build

[Ez2cDave]

Chuck,

Are you aware of Scott Binder's recent health problems ?

I just saw this thread . . .

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...-a-complete-recovery-for-scott-binder.150330/

Dave F.

 

[Rail Dawg]

Chuck,

Are you aware of Scott Binder's recent health problems ?

I just saw this thread . . .

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...-a-complete-recovery-for-scott-binder.150330/

Dave F.

Bummer to hear about Scott.

I’m working with Mike Fisher at Binder Design. He’s the one taking the fin can order and building it for the rocket.

Chuck C.

 

[Rail Dawg]

Parts are being ordered for this rocket.

Does anyone out there have any of the 11.67” G-12 tube?

I’ve checked every vendor I can think of to see if they have any in stock.

I need a small section (or any length) so the aluminum fin can can get started with a precise OD of the airframe.

The order I have in for airframe/couplers may take some time.

Thanks.

Chuck C.

 

[Paulb06]

Parts are being ordered for this rocket.

Does anyone out there have any of the 11.67” G-12 tube?

I’ve checked every vendor I can think of to see if they have any in stock.

I need a small section (or any length) so the aluminum fin can can get started with a precise OD of the airframe.

The order I have in for airframe/couplers may take some time.

Thanks.

Chuck C.

Performance Hobbies shows it in stock....I take it their inventory isn't up to date...

 

[Rail Dawg]

Performance Hobbies shows it in stock....I take it their inventory isn't up to date...

Unfortunately no...

But if anyone discovers an airframe or coupler please post it here!

I don’t mind waiting for the order (it’s a big one lol) but getting a couple parts ahead of time would be very helpful!

Thanks Paul.

Chuck C.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Bummer to hear about Scott.

I’m working with Mike Fisher at Binder Design. He’s the one taking the fin can order and building it for the rocket.

Chuck C.

Chuck,

I think you mentioned Mike before . . . Knew you would want to know about Scott !

Dave F.

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

Unfortunately no...

But if anyone discovers an airframe or coupler please post it here!

I don’t mind waiting for the order (it’s a big one lol) but getting a couple parts ahead of time would be very helpful!

Thanks Paul.

Chuck C.

Curtis cannot provide you the data you need ? If phenolic works , I have some PML tube of the same size I can get you a accurate measurment .

 

[Rail Dawg]

Anyone have a copy of an FAA Class 3 waiver I can reference?

Looking at launching within 5-6 months best to get that part going.

Looking for examples on the web.

Chuck C.

 

[Rail Dawg]

Curtis cannot provide you the data you need ? If phenolic works , I have some PML tube of the same size I can get you a accurate measurment .

Yes I'll contact Curtis directly.

Thanks.

Chuck C.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Anyone have a copy of an FAA Class 3 waiver I can reference?

Looking at launching within 5-6 months best to get that part going.

Looking for examples on the web.

Chuck C.

Chuck,

This may be helpful . . .

https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-get-an-FAA-waiver-for-a-class-3-rocket

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Form/7711-2_08-08.pdf

Dave F.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Yes I'll contact Curtis directly.

Tripoli has a class 3 committee to help with getting class 3 waivers. Contact them https://www.tripoli.org/C3RC
Do NOT expect service from Curtis. EVEN if he says he will do it and takes your money! There are many threads here on TRF about people getting stiffed by Curtis! It may take years if ever to get what you ordered.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Tripoli has a class 3 committee to help with getting class 3 waivers. Contact them https://www.tripoli.org/C3RC
Do NOT expect service from Curtis. EVEN if he says he will do it and takes your money! There are many threads here on TRF about people getting stiffed by Curtis! It may take years if ever to get what you ordered.

Is "Curtis", Curtis Turner, the guy at Performance Rocketry ?

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/what-to-do-about-performance-rocketry-curtis-turner.8692/

If so, I agree, wholeheartedly, and I strongly encourage Chuck to go elsewhere !

Dave F.

 

[Rail Dawg]

Tripoli has a class 3 committee to help with getting class 3 waivers. Contact them https://www.tripoli.org/C3RC
Do NOT expect service from Curtis. EVEN if he says he will do it and takes your money! There are many threads here on TRF about people getting stiffed by Curtis! It may take years if ever to get what you ordered.

Thanks for the link.

Very helpful.

Curtis I understand has gotten much better with his orders.

He's the only game in town for G-12 airframes and couplers in the 12" range.

I'm going through AMW for the parts ordering but do expect a delay as I know Curtis has a lot of orders.

Chuck C.

 

[BobbyC]

Guys, I have been reading and following this forum for a while, just never posted. When I read this, I had to throw my 2 cents and experience in. Unless you are Michael from MadCow, Curtis is more likely to take your money and put you on the back burner. I had 3” kit ordered for 9 weeks. Curtis never did send the order. Friends in the club have been waiting for months. Like me, they paid for the kits upfront. He has a good to great product especially fillement wound nose cones. Either he is careless, doesn’t give a rip or just a bad business man I don’t know. He will not take my money again.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Anyone have a copy of an FAA Class 3 waiver I can reference?

Looking at launching within 5-6 months best to get that part going.

Looking for examples on the web.

Chuck C.

If you are a Tripoli member all Class 3 rockets (or flights exceeding 50,000 feet) must first be cleared by the Class 3 Review Committee and the Tripoli BoD. That last part is a recent addition to our policy in response to recent . Then, it must have a COA from FAA.
The review by the Tripoli Class 3 Review Committee is strictly to ensure that all FAA requirements are met. Passing the C3RC greatly increases your chances of obtaining a COA.
The review by the BoD is now required for safety. We will be looking at those things that are not considered as part of the FAA requirements, such as your motor data and/or static tests, method of motor ignition, recovery and staging arming and disarming procedures, construction techniques, checklists, etc. You don’t need to send us a separate application; when you submit your application to C3RC for review the BoD will get notification as well.
Also, my understanding is that right now the people at FAA who review COA applications are out of the office due to the shutdown.

 

[Rail Dawg]

If you are a Tripoli member all Class 3 rockets (or flights exceeding 50,000 feet) must first be cleared by the Class 3 Review Committee and the Tripoli BoD. That last part is a recent addition to our policy in response to recent . Then, it must have a COA from FAA.
The review by the Tripoli Class 3 Review Committee is strictly to ensure that all FAA requirements are met. Passing the C3RC greatly increases your chances of obtaining a COA.
The review by the BoD is now required for safety. We will be looking at those things that are not considered as part of the FAA requirements, such as your motor data and/or static tests, method of motor ignition, recovery and staging arming and disarming procedures, construction techniques, checklists, etc. You don’t need to send us a separate application; when you submit your application to C3RC for review the BoD will get notification as well.
Also, my understanding is that right now the people at FAA who review COA applications are out of the office due to the shutdown.

Thanks for this Steve.

Appreciate all you do.

To avoid all the hassles of a Tripoli launch this will be done at other places. The bureaucracy (and politics lol) involved these days makes it far harder to launch the bigger rockets at places like LDRS.

Getting the Class 3 waiver shouldn’t be too hard. Being a Captain with the major airlines I can speak FAA lol.

Just thought someone might have a copy of their waiver for me to review.

Thanks!

Chuck C.

 

[Wallace]

If you are a Tripoli member all Class 3 rockets (or flights exceeding 50,000 feet) must first be cleared by the Class 3 Review Committee and the Tripoli BoD. That last part is a recent addition to our policy in response to recent . Then, it must have a COA from FAA.
The review by the Tripoli Class 3 Review Committee is strictly to ensure that all FAA requirements are met. Passing the C3RC greatly increases your chances of obtaining a COA.
The review by the BoD is now required for safety. We will be looking at those things that are not considered as part of the FAA requirements, such as your motor data and/or static tests, method of motor ignition, recovery and staging arming and disarming procedures, construction techniques, checklists, etc. You don’t need to send us a separate application; when you submit your application to C3RC for review the BoD will get notification as well.
Also, my understanding is that right now the people at FAA who review COA applications are out of the office due to the shutdown.

Steve; Am I reading too far into this or are you saying as long as you are a Tripoli member "all" class 3 launches must be approved regardless of venue?

 

[Steve Shannon]

Steve; Am I reading too far into this or are you saying as long as you are a Tripoli member "all" class 3 launches must be approved regardless of venue?

Yes, if you want or need Tripoli insurance coverage for your Class 3 project you must submit your Class 3 project for review. This is only for Class 3.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Thanks for this Steve.

Appreciate all you do.

To avoid all the hassles of a Tripoli launch this will be done at other places. The bureaucracy (and politics lol) involved these days makes it far harder to launch the bigger rockets at places like LDRS.

Getting the Class 3 waiver shouldn’t be too hard. Being a Captain with the major airlines I can speak FAA lol.

Just thought someone might have a copy of their waiver for me to review.

Thanks!

Chuck C.

Chuck,

Here's a thought for the "next level" of the project, after the successful, upcoming launch . . .

Imagine a 747, piloted by yourself, with the "ARR" rocket mounted on an under-wing launch pylon . . .

Do a "vomit comet" - type Parabola and launch on the way up, near apogee, say at around 40,000 ft AGL, or so ( ducking & running - LOL )

Dave F.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Thanks for this Steve.

Appreciate all you do.

To avoid all the hassles of a Tripoli launch this will be done at other places. The bureaucracy (and politics lol) involved these days makes it far harder to launch the bigger rockets at places like LDRS.

Getting the Class 3 waiver shouldn’t be too hard. Being a Captain with the major airlines I can speak FAA lol.

Just thought someone might have a copy of their waiver for me to review.

Thanks!

Chuck C.

Chuck,

"Reading between the lines" I get the impression that this might be neither a Tripoli, nor an NAR launch, to be conducted at Black Rock . . . Am I correct ?

Dave F.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Thanks for this Steve.

Appreciate all you do.

To avoid all the hassles of a Tripoli launch this will be done at other places. The bureaucracy (and politics lol) involved these days makes it far harder to launch the bigger rockets at places like LDRS.

Getting the Class 3 waiver shouldn’t be too hard. Being a Captain with the major airlines I can speak FAA lol.

Just thought someone might have a copy of their waiver for me to review.

Thanks!

Chuck C.

The analyses required for Class 3 are not easy. The C3RC has the software and expertise. I don’t know why a Tripoli member would not take advantage of that service. That review and the one done by the board benefit the flyer as well as the hobby. Why avoid them?

 

[Ez2cDave]

The analyses required for Class 3 are not easy. The C3RC has the software and expertise. I don’t know why a Tripoli member would not take advantage of that service. That review and the one done by the board benefit the flyer as well as the hobby. Why avoid them?

Steve,

While I can't speak for Chuck, let me say that, most likely, you might not take kindly to some of the answers to your question . . . A re-read of this thread will reveal many of the things that make a non-NAR / non-TRIPOLI launch desirable, under the circumstances . . . Sometimes, it's not WHAT is said, but HOW something is said that makes all the difference. Personally, I "have no dog in this fight". nor "an axe to grind", regarding this situation.

Dave F.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Thanks, Dave.

Here’s what is required by FAA for Class 3 applications, over and above the 7711-2 application:
(b) Class 3—Advanced High-Power Rockets. When a Class 3—Advanced High-Power Rocket requires a certificate of waiver or authorization the person planning the operation must provide the information below for each type of rocket to the FAA at least 45 days before the proposed operation. The FAA may request additional information if necessary to ensure the proposed operations can be safely conducted. The information shall include for each type of Class 3 rocket expected to be flown:
(1) The information requirements of paragraph (a) of this section,
(2) Maximum possible range,
(3) The dynamic stability characteristics for the entire flight profile,
(4) A description of all major rocket systems, including structural, pneumatic, propellant, propulsion, ignition, electrical, avionics, recovery, wind-weighting, flight control, and tracking,
(5) A description of other support equipment necessary for a safe operation,
(6) The planned flight profile and sequence of events,
(7) All nominal impact areas, including those for any spent motors and other discarded hardware, within three standard deviations of the mean impact point,
(8) Launch commit criteria,
(9) Countdown procedures, and
(10) Mishap procedures.
[Doc. No. FAA-2007-27390, 73 FR 73781, Dec. 4, 2008, as amended at Doc. No. FAA-2007-27390, 74 FR 31843, July 6, 2009]

It’s all found at:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg...FR-2018-title14-vol2-part101.xml#seqnum101.25

 

[Rail Dawg]

Chuck,

"Reading between the lines" I get the impression that this might be neither a Tripoli, nor an NAR launch, to be conducted at Black Rock . . . Am I correct ?

Dave F.

Fortunately there are several ways (and places) to launch a Class 3 rocket safely without the scrutiny (and politics) of a national organization.

Earlier in the thread we saw first-hand the politics of a big launch. I simply haven't the time or desire to deal with those issues.

It's a personal goal to build this big rocket and then step up to an even bigger rocket with more power... pushing the envelope. A lot will be learned with this one.

Best to keep a small team of folks with great experience.

Nothing personal at all. At 57 years old I've learned to avoid politics like the plague lol.

Chuck C.

 

[Steve Shannon]

And I have to apologize for repeating myself. I went back and read through this, at least part way. I see that I already explained the Class 3 requirements in my post #440.
The Tripoli BoD still has not discussed this project though. Right before I made post 440 I spoke to Bob Brown and about that time I also heard from Pat G, but nothing at the BoD level and we have spoken frequently. So I’m not sure what’s meant about board politics. I’d invite a PM.

 

[Rail Dawg]

That being said I'll keep the door open if I find a friendly group of association folks more interested in pushing amateur rocketry into the "S" range and beyond than big egos and negativity.

I've dealt with big egos for 30 years at work. I don't have one but I do like to make really big rockets with experienced friends and share those rocket launches with folks who really love this stuff!

Chuck C.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Fortunately there are several ways (and places) to launch a Class 3 rocket safely without the scrutiny (and politics) of a national organization.

Earlier in the thread we saw first-hand the politics of a big launch. I simply haven't the time or desire to deal with those issues.

It's a personal goal to build this big rocket and then step up to an even bigger rocket with more power... pushing the envelope. A lot will be learned with this one.

Best to keep a small team of folks with great experience.

Nothing personal at all. At 57 years old I've learned to avoid politics like the plague lol.

Chuck C.

Chuck,

Precisely . . .

Your Central Team and the "Steely-Eyed Missile Men" have your back . . . We are not "yes men" and each of us are laser-focused in our areas of expertise !

Adapt & Overcome . . . Failure Is Not An Option !

Dave F.

 

[Rail Dawg]

On a side note I’m trying to find more information on the Virginia Tech Class 3 incident at the BALLS launch?

Exactly what happened and what mistakes were made?

Chuck C.

 

[AlphaHybrids]

If you are a TRA member there is additional information available on the TRA Members forum.

Edward

 

[Andrew_ASC]

Go read the Tripoli forums for that.