America's Backpack Nukes

[Winston]

This guy or whoever writes his scripts often makes obvious mistakes in his videos. In this one, he states that 1 kiloton is equal to 10,000 tons of TNT.



Sandia National Labs SADM training film

https://rawnslnotebook.tumblr.com/p...-wanted-to-post-two-quick-videos-from-a-piece

Atomic Demolition Munitions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_demolition_munition

Tactical Atomic Demolition Munition (TADM)

The Mk 30 Mod 1 Tactical Atomic Demolition Munition (TADM) was a portable atomic bomb, consisting of a Mk 30 warhead installed in a X-113 case. The X-113 was 26 inches (66 cm) in diameter and 70 in (178 cm) long, and looked like corrugated culvert pipe. The whole system weighed 840 pounds (381 kg). Production of the TADM started in 1961 and all were removed from stockpile by 1966. A weapons effect test of the TADM was made in the 1962 Johnny Boy ("Johnnie Boy") shot of the Dominic II series (which is more accurately referred to as Operation Sunbeam), the yield of Johnny Boy/Johnnie Boy was about .5 kt. A preceding ADM test which resulted in a comparable yield, was test shot "Danny Boy" of Operation Nougat, also producing a yield of about 0.5 kiloton.

Special Atomic Demolition Munition (SADM)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Atomic_Demolition_Munition

Apparently used a modified Davy Crockett W54 warhead. The W54 had a yield of 10 tons to 1 kiloton.

Medium Atomic Demolition Munition (MADM)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_Atomic_Demolition_Munition

Medium Atomic Demolition Munition (MADM) was a tactical nuclear weapon developed by the United States during the Cold War. They were designed to be used as nuclear land mines and for other tactical purposes, with a relatively low explosive yield from a W45 warhead, between 1 and 15 kilotons. Each MADM weighed less than 400 lb (181 kg) total. They were deployed between 1965 and 1986.

 

[boomtube-mk2]

The so-called backpack or suitcase nuke never really existed as something that the average Joe could haul around with relative ease, ie. carry it like a suitcase in one hand.

There is an absolute upper limit to how powerful you can build a nuclear weapon, as I understand it and I could be wrong, it has to do with the velocity difference between the X-ray/gamma-ray pulse and the speed of neutron absorption, this is why some believe the Tsar Bomb produced only half of its calculated yield.

Now if a means is ever developed to extract anti-protons from the "Super-Collider" particle collisions that create them and then store them safely and reliably in small magnetic bottles; things could get really ugly.

That being said, there is no theoretical upper limit to how powerful you could build an anti-matter bomb. Gigaton anybody?

 

[Bat-mite]

Hey, Jack ... what do you have in your backpack? It looks kind of heavy.

 

[boomtube-mk2]

Jack has an unhealthy glow about him.

 

[Zbench]

There is an absolute upper limit to how powerful you can build a nuclear weapon, as I understand it and I could be wrong.

That being said, there is no theoretical upper limit to how powerful you could build an anti-matter bomb. Gigaton anybody

Actually, most believe that there is no upper limit to how large you can build a fusion device. If you consider that the primary fission bomb compresses and makes a second stage fuse and create the largest part of the explosion, there is no reason that you can't create a cascading number of stages which each in turn compresses and fuses a subsequent stage. This is called the arbitrarily large multi staged device. When Edward Teller was still alive he proposed a plan to create a multistaged Gigaton bomb to be used to divert large, extinction class asteroids if they were on a collision path with earth.

You can read more about it here

Ex Army Chemical Officer here, a weapons of mass destruction practitioner.

 

[boomtube-mk2]

The problem with the multi-stage bombs, as it was explained to me, is that the compression rate/speed of the fusion fuel is slower than the propagation rate of the initial X-Ray/Gamma pulse which basically vaporizes the bomb, including the fuel in the secondary stages, before those secondary stages can go "Boom!".
The Tsar bomb was a multi-stage fusion device and it is believed that this is why it produced an estimated 50-52 megatons instead of 100 as theorized.

 

[Zbench]

Not sure of your source, but the statement doesn't seem to hold up. If what you say is true, there would be no thermonuclear weapons because this is exactly how a two stage device works. The fission primary implodes on a secondary causing some fusion, but mostly still fission to create a significant yield.

The secondary has a core of plutonium, surrounded by lithium deuteride, and then all held together by cheap and plentiful U238 which is not normally, fissile at all. When the primary compresses the plutonium rod in the secondary, it also starts to fission and heats up the lithium deuteride which reacts to become tritium that finally fuses into Helium and gives off still more neutrons which cause the case, also called the tamper to also fission. This is where the vast amount of the additional energy from a multistage device come from. Not much energy, comparatively speaking, comes from the actual fusion, it is the third fission of the U238 which makes the really big boom.

I've read that when Teller and Ulam created this method for a bomb, they never referred to it as a thermonuclear bomb because almost all the energy released is from fission. Further during the Castle Bravo shot in 1954 in the Bikini Atoll, Bravo's fallout analysis also told the outside world, for the first time, that thermonuclear bombs are more fission devices than fusion devices. A Japanese fishing boat, Daigo Fukuryū Maru, sailed home with enough fallout on her decks to allow scientists in Japan and elsewhere to determine, and announce, that most of the fallout had come from the fission of U-238 by fusion-produced 14 MeV neutrons. That U-238 is from the fissioning of the tamper (the case that holds the secondary together).

There is a weakness in that the lithium deuteride can get too hot and cook off before the fusion reaction can get started which is what I think you are referring to. It is the job of the interstage to keep the secondary cool enough to keep the fuel intact so it can fuse and create the neutrons which make the outer tamper also fission and provide the big yield. Whatever the interstage it is highly classified, but again, it does seem to work or we would not have a two stage device to start with.

 

[Grog6]

The so-called backpack or suitcase nuke never really existed as something that the average Joe could haul around with relative ease, ie. carry it like a suitcase in one hand.

There is an absolute upper limit to how powerful you can build a nuclear weapon, as I understand it and I could be wrong, it has to do with the velocity difference between the X-ray/gamma-ray pulse and the speed of neutron absorption, this is why some believe the Tsar Bomb produced only half of its calculated yield.

Now if a means is ever developed to extract anti-protons from the "Super-Collider" particle collisions that create them and then store them safely and reliably in small magnetic bottles; things could get really ugly.

That being said, there is no theoretical upper limit to how powerful you could build an anti-matter bomb. Gigaton anybody?

There is a limit to the size of the explosion; large explosions make a vacuum 'bubble' that limits the transport of energy from the blast to ight/heat only.

Not sure of your source, but the statement doesn't seem to hold up. If what you say is true, there would be no thermonuclear weapons because this is exactly how a two stage device works. The fission primary implodes on a secondary causing some fusion, but mostly still fission to create a significant yield.
The U238 tamper does supply a significant fraction of its energy from fission, that fission requires the~>5mev photons from fusion to do the fission in 238.

The secondary has a core of plutonium, surrounded by lithium deuteride, and then all held together by cheap and plentiful U238 which is not normally, fissile at all. When the primary compresses the plutonium rod in the secondary, it also starts to fission and heats up the lithium deuteride which reacts to become tritium that finally fuses into Helium and gives off still more neutrons which cause the case, also called the tamper to also fission. This is where the vast amount of the additional energy from a multistage device come from. Not much energy, comparatively speaking, comes from the actual fusion, it is the third fission of the U238 which makes the really big boom.

I've read that when Teller and Ulam created this method for a bomb, they never referred to it as a thermonuclear bomb because almost all the energy released is from fission. Further during the Castle Bravo shot in 1954 in the Bikini Atoll, Bravo's fallout analysis also told the outside world, for the first time, that thermonuclear bombs are more fission devices than fusion devices. A Japanese fishing boat, Daigo Fukuryū Maru, sailed home with enough fallout on her decks to allow scientists in Japan and elsewhere to determine, and announce, that most of the fallout had come from the fission of U-238 by fusion-produced 14 MeV neutrons. That U-238 is from the fissioning of the tamper (the case that holds the secondary together).

There is a weakness in that the lithium deuteride can get too hot and cook off before the fusion reaction can get started which is what I think you are referring to. It is the job of the interstage to keep the secondary cool enough to keep the fuel intact so it can fuse and create the neutrons which make the outer tamper also fission and provide the big yield. Whatever the interstage it is highly classified, but again, it does seem to work or we would not have a two stage device to start with.

 

[Zbench]

Grog,

We'd love to hear from you. Living in Oak Ridge, I bet you know a thing or two about the subject. When I was an Army Captain, I toured the whole complex with my boss who was a General. We got the VIP tour, rode the train, visited the special viewing area in K-25 where they purified the Uranium that was set up for Roosevelt and the Y-12 complex. Very impressive place. I understand that K-25 has been torn down, but to see that massive building which was 44 acres in size is something I will never forget. The miles of contaminated piping inside the building was something I will never forget either.

 

[boomtube-mk2]

Grog;

As I was told, the X-ray/Gamma flash can be "Shortstopped, for an infinitesimally brief period of time, just enough that the fission/fusion process can be completed but it cannot be stopped altogether.

In fact, as I understand it, in a pure fission bomb the X-Ray/Gamm flash actually vaporizes a large percentage of the fissionable material, as well as the entirety of the physical bomb, and everything nearby, even as the core portion of the "Pit" continues its decent into supercriticality and goes "Boom!"

 

[cerving]

The so-called backpack or suitcase nuke never really existed as something that the average Joe could haul around with relative ease, ie. carry it like a suitcase in one hand.

Really? I KNOW I saw it in one of the James Bond movies... or was it the Get Smart movie...

 

[boomtube-mk2]

or was it the Get Smart movie...

That was:

 

[cerving]

I think it was the Steve Carell movie (which I thought was pretty good, and had a lot of good lines in it). The Nude Bomb wasn't very good... especially since it didn't have Agent 99 in it.

 

[Bravo52]

What works in theory doesn't always work in practice. The majority of our testing today consist of modeling. That said, the limits are based on the design. Mostly, the NEP hasn't changed since Trinity. Things around it has or needs to in order to bring our stockpile into the current century. The good news is current designs are incredibly effective and reliable.

 

[boomtube-mk2]

The good news is current designs are incredibly effective and reliable.

Is it really "Good news" that Thermonuclear Weapons that can destroy the World are "Effective and reliable"?
Just asking.

 

[Bravo52]

Is it really "Good news" that Thermonuclear Weapons that can destroy the World are "Effective and reliable"?
Just asking.

Yes.

 

[Banzai88]

Is it really "Good news" that Thermonuclear Weapons that can destroy the World are "Effective and reliable"?
Just asking.

Depends on if you think that "Mutually Assured Destruction" is a deterrent or not.

 

[boomtube-mk2]

I suppose that "reliable" is better than having them go-off accidently if somebody happens to lean against one or leaves some sitting out in the sun for too long.

MAD is a deterrent so long as all of the participants are sane.
I think we are reaching a point where some of them might not be.

 

[Bravo52]

Depends on if you think that "Mutually Assured Destruction" is a deterrent or not.

Well, it's worked so far!

 

[Mushtang]

Well, it's worked so far!

... but we're not out yet.

 

[Michael L]

What works in theory doesn't always work in practice. The majority of our testing today consist of modeling. That said, the limits are based on the design. Mostly, the NEP hasn't changed since Trinity. Things around it has or needs to in order to bring our stockpile into the current century. The good news is current designs are incredibly effective and reliable.

Delivery systems have come a long way too

 

[Johnly]

For those interested this is a must read:

https://scienceandglobalsecurity.org/archive/sgs02degeer.pdf

The neutron flux calculated is mind blowing...

John

 

[Johnly]

The problem with the multi-stage bombs, as it was explained to me, is that the compression rate/speed of the fusion fuel is slower than the propagation rate of the initial X-Ray/Gamma pulse which basically vaporizes the bomb, including the fuel in the secondary stages, before those secondary stages can go "Boom!".
The Tsar bomb was a multi-stage fusion device and it is believed that this is why it produced an estimated 50-52 megatons instead of 100 as theorized.

In the 50Mt Tsar test a non-fissionable tamper was employed and the yield was predominantly fusion. If you can get the neutrons of the fusion reaction generated as designed using an inert tamper, swapping the tamper to something fissionable for a higher yield is not a significant challenge.

 

[teepot]

There is a site at The Nevada Test Site Called the DAF which stands for the Device Assembly Facility. Always interesting around here.

 

[Bill Hanson]

What works in theory doesn't always work in practice. The majority of our testing today consist of modeling. That said, the limits are based on the design. Mostly, the NEP hasn't changed since Trinity. Things around it has or needs to in order to bring our stockpile into the current century. The good news is current designs are incredibly effective and reliable.

Very true. Also, our modeling is validated from data from about 1,200 previous nuclear weapons tests. And we continue to do sub-critical experiments to get a better handle on the characteristics of key materials.
(Also a BUFF driver)

 

[Bravo52]

Very true. Also, our modeling is validated from data from about 1,200 previous nuclear weapons tests. And we continue to do sub-critical experiments to get a better handle on the characteristics of key materials.
(Also a BUFF driver)

Unfortunately, it's been too long since we did live test. Data at some level is perishable and should be reinvigorated. In DT, we still get surprised now and then. Not good or bad, just different.

My last sortie was a ~10 years ago (time flies) and didn't stray too far once retired from the AF...even though I swore "I was done with that!"

 

[Michael L]

Unfortunately, it's been too long since we did live test. Data at some level is perishable and should be reinvigorated. In DT, we still get surprised now and then. Not good or bad, just different.

My last sortie was a ~10 years ago (time flies) and didn't stray too far once retired from the AF...even though I swore "I was done with that!"

If you spent time in Minot you might have seen my son (SSgt). His crew loaded and unloaded the ALCM / CALCAM's during what he called generations. They were on the opposite shift that "had problems" and sent some live "weaponry" to Barksdale AFB a bit more than a few years back. (Quotes are because he couldn't talk about anything when he was there so I made my own terms). They didn't have the problem but when 50% of your workforce is suddenly not there it's a PITA. At his pre-wedding dinner I was talking to one of his friends whose job had something to do with the tritium ball. Just about every question I had was met with - sir, if I tell you I'd have to kill you. Most times they were laughing...

The oldest son was stationed at Hurlburt Field (aircraft electrician on the AC-130U gunship, the U model is now retired.) Man, he loved that airplane. I got a tour of one of the aircraft. There was a sign above the door leaving the cockpit into the weapons officer / navigator station that said "You can run but you'll just die tired". Destin was right there. I visited him a lot Everyone should get to see the inside of a gunship. Lot's of firepower in that bird.

My youngest son chose Minot. He could have stayed at Vandenburg. He could have gone to TX or LA. He chose Minot. I asked him why. He said "all of my friends are stationed there". I said - "GET NEW FRIENDS!" I spent 6 months In Kildeer, NoDak, most of which was in the winter, Minnesota invented cold but NoDak is in a close race for 50% partner.

The one time I got to visit him we would drive by a building and he'd say - I can't take you there. I forget where we were going that he could take me but when we got there, there was a car parked outside and he decided that was probably a fairly high ranking person so we needed to skip that. I never got to see a rotary launcher or cruise missile. When he graduated I drove out to Vandenburg for that. I was the only parent in the audience. The Colonel introduced himself and thanked me for coming. I'm standing in the middle of a bunch of people that were serving and he thanked me??? I told him that it was an honor to be there and that I was the one that was thankful. I was amazed at how not-so-modern the cruise missile servicing technology was.

It seems like yesterday but It's probably been close to 10 years since either were in the service.

The Making of the Atomic Bomb and Dark Sun: The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb, both written by Richard Rhoades, are really good, but long, reads. The first one is about the history and how we got there through Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It's amazing how long it took to get to the point of the detonation at Trinity...

 

[Zbench]

Another good read is Command and Control by Eric Schlosser. It talks in detail about the Damascus, Arkansas incident where an ICBM exploded and tossed it's thermonuclear payload out of the bunker but didn't thankfully detonate.

He mixes in the story all sorts of fascinating facts about the safety of early bombs and how we got oh so lucky many times from having an accidental yield over America. He also talks about the rise of the Research and Development Corporation (RAND) and how they contributed to nuclear safety.

I found some very interesting facts which I didn't know before. One that sticks in my memory is that everyone knows that Eisenhower started the modern interstate system of highways. What most likely don't know is that it wasn't for convenience of travel. It was to get as many people out of the urban centers as possible if a nuclear strike was inbound from the former Soviet Union. The book is packed full of interesting facts and enough examples of near misses you will be wondering how we are still here.

 

[Banzai88]

....... It was to get as many people out of the urban centers as possible if a nuclear strike was inbound from the former Soviet Union.

If there's ANYTHING that evacuations for fire/flood/major hurricanes (never mind rush hour traffic) has taught us, this is currently a pipe dream and we're all gonna fry!

 

[Michael L]

If there's ANYTHING that evacuations for fire/flood/major hurricanes (never mind rush hour traffic) has taught us, this is currently a pipe dream and we're all gonna fry!

Not all of us will fry. Some will be blinded and unable to fend for themselves. Then there's the burn victims, skin sloughing off, infections, excruciating pain. And radiation poisoning, teeth falling out, painful lesions. It would be quite the party...

Besides that, have you seen how people drive when driven to mass hysteria over a hurricane? I wouldn't stay for a hurricane. They are too unpredictable. But I wouldn't trust the "spaghetti crew either". I forget which one it was but the weather modelers literally blocked the entire Gulf coast out as the landfall area and recommended that everyone evac. Initially it was red from Brownsville to Jupiter Inlet, FL. And the people listened. Then they narrowed it down and said Galveston to Houston... GET OUT... and they listened, except nobody could go anywhere because the roads were so clogged up. Most turned around and went home. They opened I10 west, from Houston, on both sides, no eastbound traffic. I have a photo taken from an overpass near my house, looking east at a dead empty IH 10. I got into photography pretty heavy back in 2005 so it's buried in a few 100 thousand images. 90 miles west of Houston we had seemingly terrified people stripping store shelves bare and gas lines a block long as people, in a headlong rush to get to Austin, wreaked havoc and clogged up the small town streets that I live and shop in. I saw one guy, with his family stuffed in the car, throw a nozzle on the ground when he was done, drive over the curb as he screeched out of the gas station escaping to perceived safety in the already clogged up town of Austin. On the day the hurricane made landfall there wasn't a cloud in the sky where I live (about 100 miles inland and mid-Gulf coast). When a hurricane that will impact the area I live in approaches, days before it makes landfall the clouds move in an arc around you. It's clearly visible and a good predictor of where it's going. Houston had the same weather as we did when there was mass panic driven by bad forecasting. If I remember right landfall was Cameron, LA.

Weathermen used to read the charts, wind data, and other indicators to try to predict landfall. It's hard to do. Now they digest spaghetti models (pun intended) and get it wrong. Not always wrong. They're pretty good at predicting landfall 12 hours before it happens :/ My grandson can do that.

The most recent storm was no different. My kids (adults but whatever) were freaking out because the wx people were saying "we're going to have another Harvey". They live in San Antonio and around the Victoria / Corpus Christi area. Aviation charts didn't even have a low pressure area on them yet when they first started warning people. When it finally showed up it looked like, at best, it would make landfall around the mouth of the Sabine river. That wasn't east enough by a long way. At least they didn't call for a wholesale evacuation this time.