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AKPilot

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Are there any good closeup pics of altimeter bays out there?

Did a brief search on TRF/A & Google, and would like to see more.

Tks
 

ttabbal

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What are you looking to see detail on? I could snap a few of my simple bays for you.
 

AKPilot

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Connections to be specific, but any closer pics would be good.
 

DAllen

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Connections? I don't have any photos but I am a big advocate of "simpler is better." I wire the ematches directly to my board. No fancy dancy connectors on the bulkheads just a tiny hole for the ematch wire. Once everything is together I plug the hole in the bulkhead that the ematch wire goes through with a tiny amount of modeling clay. Works like a charm.

-Dave
 

talkin Monkey

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Well, you asked...Meet the "Anti-K.I.S.S." of electronics bays...:pop:

Crapien II: The Black Spark of Insanity

A brief explanation of how it's set up...

*Twin RRc2 minis
-Forward RRc2 is stock, fires at apogee and 500'...(Event 1 and Event 4)
-Aft RRc2 programmed to fire at 1 sec post apogee and 700'...(Event 2 and event 3)

*Twin 9V diode isolated Batteries per altimeter fed through two dpdt switches per altimeter. (4 N/O contacts per altimeter)

*No holes drilled for ports...
-There are six 8/32 vented screws that secure the forward and aft body tubes to longitudinally drilled bulkheads on the e-bay.
-The "Hatch" also incorporates 4 more 6/32 vented screws for a total of ten teeny-tiny "breathing points" for the electronics to do their ..."thing".

* The whole hatch thing seems like it's gonna be a real pain at the pad.
-Crapien III will be a tad simpler...

Some Photos...

PICT1442.JPG


PICT1445.JPG


PICT1446.JPG
 
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talkin Monkey

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As far as terminations are concerned, I crimped ferrules at all points. I did, however, have to trim the red plastic insulators off of the connections to the RRc2s'to allow the e-bay shroud(coupler) to fit properly.
 

DAllen

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Well, you asked...Meet the "Anti-K.I.S.S." of electronics bays...:pop:
:y:

* The whole hatch thing seems like it's gonna be a real pain at the pad.
Uhhh...yeah. Hope the line for the pads isn't real long. :bangpan:
Bring about 3 or 4 extra screws for your hatch out to the pad. This is the kinda thing that would happen to me...I could see dropping a few of those on the ground and trying to find itty bitty screws in the dirt/corn silage/grass/weeds would not be fun while the LSO is waiting impatiently at the controls and there is a full rack of rockets with altimeters beeping all around me. LOL

-Dave
 

talkin Monkey

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:y:



Uhhh...yeah. Hope the line for the pads isn't real long. :bangpan:
Bring about 3 or 4 extra screws for your hatch out to the pad. This is the kinda thing that would happen to me...I could see dropping a few of those on the ground and trying to find itty bitty screws in the dirt/corn silage/grass/weeds would not be fun while the LSO is waiting impatiently at the controls and there is a full rack of rockets with altimeters beeping all around me. LOL

-Dave
An interesting point of view Dave,

Hopefully rigging Crapien II at the away pad won't be as stressful as trying to find an open urinal during the intermission of an Ozzy concert...some extra hardware on hand just in case...BeepBeepBeep...BeeeepBeeeepBeeeep...:)
 
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Handeman

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Here's some pics of my L1 build. The rocket has a 2" ID. I'm using a Perfectflite HiAlt45 with a 9V battery. The switch is wired as per the instructions that came with the altimeter.

The first pic is the terminals I used. The terminals are board mount types. I soldered the wires to the terminals, feed the wires through the end cap and used JB Weld to epoxy everything in place. They've held up to 8 flights including an 80G ride on an I1299N-P

The second pic is the wires attached to the altimeter. The wires have to be long enough to feed from one end cap, through the alt bay, and be able to attach to the altimeter when you're assembling everything.

A suggestion. Use stranded wire and tin the ends that connect to the altimeter. Solid wire will break easier/sooner.

The third pic it the switch and how it was installed. It really works well, pull the pin and everything powers up. I now use the same board in a 4" rocket so I rewired the battery directly to the Power terminals on the altimeter and the switch is connected to the Switch terminals. That way I can just disconnect the switch and connect to a different switch in the larger rocket.

EBayterminals.jpg


EBayelectronics.jpg


EBaybatteryandswitch.jpg
 

BsSmith

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Here is the E-bay for my Talon 3.

The bay has to be taken apart to be armed, but if that doesn't work out I'll find a way to mount something under the vent holes. The reason I did it in the first place was because the Parrot's main power switch is located on the board, so it has to be taken apart to be turned on anyway.

The batteries are located at the top of the bay to add a small amount of stability to the rocket.

Picture 169.jpg


Picture 170.jpg


Picture 171.jpg
 

ewallace

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pic of my 38mm ebay



pic of my L3 ebay 5" rocket

 

JimJarvis50

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Here is a picture of the skid I use for my two-stager. It has 2 ARTS and 3 timers. I use screw switches that are accessed through holes in the airframe. That eliminates switches on the airframe and interconnecting wires. I also do not use the hardware holders for the batteries (it's too easy for the battery to move and to disconnect). I only use the wire connectors that are taped to the battery. I also run the wires for the charges directly to the altimeter with no connectors involved, and use caulk/clay/epoxy/hot glue to seal the little holes through the bulkheads.

Jim

Bay.jpg
 

alessio

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5.5" Hyperloc 1600 ebay.

Standard LOC ebay..

i just made it..still not finished
missing the Safe switches and cleaning up..

then another ebay for my Hyperloc 300, (at the time of the pics still not finished too) smaller but the altimeter did find very well space.

ele.jpg


dsc00158_174.jpg


dsc00157_455.jpg
 

Bat-mite

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From my MAC Performance Radial Flyer, which was my Level 3 cert rocket:

av-bay.jpg

L3 Wiring.png
 

rharshberger

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Any specific reason you put the switch in the power circuit instead of to the switch contacts for the Statologger?
He probably did it for the same reason I did on my L3 cert rocket, by jumpering the switch terminal it negates one switch per altimeter, and by putting the switch on the correct leg of the battery it allows the power supply to be completely cutoff from the alts ans ematches. This configuration will get most NAR L3CC's approval.
Before configuring my alt bay that way I contacted both Missleworks for the RRC3 and Cris Erving for the Quark to confirm which leg of the power supply needed to be switched to be safe.
 
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Handeman

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He probably did it for the same reason I did on my L3 cert rocket, by jumpering the switch terminal it negates one switch per altimeter, and by putting the switch on the correct leg of the battery it allows the power supply to be completely cutoff from the alts ans ematches. This configuration will get most NAR L3CC's approval.
Before configuring my alt bay that way I contacted both Missleworks for the RRC3 and Cris Erving for the Quark to confirm which leg of the power supply needed to be switched to be safe.
I guess my real question is, is there any additional safety margin obtained by switching the power leads instead of just using the switch contacts? I realize much of that has to do with the circuitry in the Stratologger, but I don't know if switching the power makes it any safer then using the switch contacts. I know the stratologgers have a capacitor on the power leads that will keep power applied to the altimeter during short power outages. Does the switch contact make sure that power is turned off and no capacitor is supplying power even after the battery is turned off?
 

Steve Shannon

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I guess my real question is, is there any additional safety margin obtained by switching the power leads instead of just using the switch contacts? I realize much of that has to do with the circuitry in the Stratologger, but I don't know if switching the power makes it any safer then using the switch contacts. I know the stratologgers have a capacitor on the power leads that will keep power applied to the altimeter during short power outages. Does the switch contact make sure that power is turned off and no capacitor is supplying power even after the battery is turned off?
I don't know about the Stratologger specifically, but switch loops frequently have debounce circuitry that may not exist on the power leads if the designer intended the switch loop to be used. As an L3CC I would like to hear from the manufacturer.

Edit: spelling errors and clarification. I'm not questioning whether a switch in one of the battery wires would be acceptable. I believe it would. I was just mentioning the fact that switching it there might bypass debounce circuitry and that an overly cautious person such as myself would want to study the circuit or find out from the manufacturer if that could cause other problems unrelated to the certification rules.
 
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Rex R

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when I was testing my SL-100 I found that the alt stayed active for 2 - 3 seconds after I disconnected the power. given the nature of this thread, here is mine.
Rex

comp3sled.jpg


comp3sled2.jpg


comp3sled3.jpg
 

rharshberger

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I don't know about the Stratologger specifically, but switch looks frequently have denounce circuitry that may not exist on the power leads if the designer intended the switch loop to be used. As an L3CC I would like to hear from the manufacturer.
In the case of the Eggtimer Quark and the RRC3, an email to Cris Erving and Jim Amos both stated that the battery being switched on the correct leg would render the altimeter totally unable to light the ematches, with that information I then forwarded those emails direct to my L3CC, he had no issues (of course each L3CC and TAP is a little different). The Quark actually has no built in switch. Hopefully both will chime in here with that information.
 

Handeman

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when I was testing my SL-100 I found that the alt stayed active for 2 - 3 seconds after I disconnected the power. given the nature of this thread, here is mine.
Rex
The Perfectflite altimeters have a capacitor on the power leads to hold power for a few seconds in case you get switch bounce in your on/off switch or momentary opens on the power leads/battery. If you lose power for less then the capacitor charge time, it will come back without resetting/rebooting the altimeter.

BTW, what is the small circuit board with the resistor on it in the power leads?
 

Handeman

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In the case of the Eggtimer Quark and the RRC3, an email to Cris Erving and Jim Amos both stated that the battery being switched on the correct leg would render the altimeter totally unable to light the ematches, with that information I then forwarded those emails direct to my L3CC, he had no issues (of course each L3CC and TAP is a little different). The Quark actually has no built in switch. Hopefully both will chime in here with that information.
I would expect the switched power lead would work that way. My concern is if you get a loose connection in the power, either switch bounce, internal battery issue, or a bad connection, will that immediately cause the altimeter to reboot/reset? If it does, that would be a very bad thing in the middle of a flight.

One of the reasons I like the Perfectflite altimeters is that they have the capacitor on the power so it will power the altimeter for a few seconds if you get a short gap in the power during flight for whatever reason. Do the Eggtimer and RRC3 do the same thing?
 

ksaves2

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He probably did it for the same reason I did on my L3 cert rocket, by jumpering the switch terminal it negates one switch per altimeter, and by putting the switch on the correct leg of the battery it allows the power supply to be completely cutoff from the alts ans ematches. This configuration will get most NAR L3CC's approval.
Before configuring my alt bay that way I contacted both Missleworks for the RRC3 and Cris Erving for the Quark to confirm which leg of the power supply needed to be switched to be safe.
Question (not a troll): When you mention which leg of the power supply do you mean the + or - wires? If that's the case, how would that matter? If the electrons can't flow, does it really matter which battery wire the switch is connected to? The switch terminal is in a
series with the battery anyways so whether or not one switches at the terminal block or the battery doesn't make a difference
one iota. The only "real" reason to do it at the battery (besides a not so smart reviewer) is because in a given case, it might be easier
for the builder to do it that way and they wish to proceed. The system is not "any safer" switched at the battery or at the switch block
on the deployment device.

I suspect there is still an issue with remote switches or WiFi controlled devices as far as an L3 attempt is concerned. From what I gather, one still would have to have a "hard" switch on the power leads of an L3 project no matter what?

Some smaller projects lend themselves to attaching the battery to the device like a Quantum or remote switch and buttoning up the ebay with no external switches
visible and go fly. Activate it at the pad. Even though Cerving swears this is safe (and I believe him) going without a mechanical switch on an L3 attempt is not acceptable?

Yeah, usually on L3 projects the rockets are large enough the ebays have plenty of room. I was considering using a Dominator 4 that I re-designed from the outset
to be totally switchless using magnetic switches. Since there are Quantums and remote switches available I was going to use that. If that's a no-no, I'd have to
go back to the Extreme Wildman I constructed with a switchband. The Dominator 4 has a thrust block to support the ebay and no switchband. Just a clean
seam line.

I made a long-necked 3" Wildman Rocket I extended the sustainer tube, used a 10" long coupler for an ebay and a longer upper bay to fit a larger parachute.
It flew to 10k on a Loki L1400 and it will take the long Loki case that holds the 54mm M. I flew it originally with a switch band and would have to put two
altimeters in the ebay and buy another nose cone to put a tracker in. Only problem is, it would bust all the local waivers so it's not a viable candidate for a local attempt. Would be neat but..............
The one time if flew it had a single MAWD and BeelineGPS in the ebay.

My other issues are I did video documentation of the Extreme Wildman on the major construction techniques but not so with the Dominator 4. I used the same techniques on the D4 as the EWildman and used Cotronics 4525B and 4525IP as the adhesive. On the D4 I even
used the 4525 on the fin fillets. Even if an L3 attempt was acceptable with a remote switched D4 (and I suspect it is not) would have to
count on a TAP believing me when I said I used the same constructions techniques as documented on the Extreme Wildman. Someone might say, "Just put switches on the bulkheads." Well, I got the metal lids with two tapped charge canisters. Those lids would be hard for me to drill and stick a robust switch on. I did find plastic centrifuge tube/canisters that fit the charge holders. I had to drill them out just a tad and my bit scored the inside of the aluminum canister. The scoring has the effects of threads and when I press fit the canister it, I have to cut it out to remove it. The canister/charge holders, especially the aft facing ones, can withstand the rigors of flight.

Kurt
 

Rex R

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provides 3v dc to an LED in the vent band so I can visually check that the alt is armed. next time I will use a white led instead of green :).
Rex
 

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