Air Force Developmental Engineer?

[Zeus-cat]

This reminds me of an engineer who came here for an interview. The first thing he wanted to do was argue about whether the non disclosure agreement we have all applicants sign was enforceable. His know-it-all attitude cost him the opportunity to get a job here before the first interview. The same attitude repeated itself through the morning. Nobody wants to work with a jerk.

The worst interview we ever had was a guy who made it pretty clear he had no interest in the job we were interviewing him for. He was only interested in the next position he could get higher up in the company. I was so tempted to tell him that if we were looking for managers we would be interviewing for managers. Right now we are looking for people at my level as we have too much work and not enough people. The three of us interviewing him all ranked him dead last of the candidates we talked to that day. Oddly enough, the managers who interviewed him later sorta liked him, but after hearing our comments they rejected him too.

We routinely put all the candidates through two panel interviews; one with three people who would be their coworkers as we knew what they would have to do on a day to day basis. The other three person panel was the hiring manager and two other managers from different departments. We usually came pretty close in our evaluations, but not always.

 

[Peartree]

Let me be blunt. In many of your previous posts here you have come across as an arrogant jerk. I assume that is part of the problem. Then your less than stellar GPA. About the same as mine to be honest.

Its time to get off your butt and do something. Go to grad school if you can't find a job. I did that. I worked as a graduate assistant after I got out of the Air Force and took my courses for free and got a stipend too. Get your foot in the door somewhere and work your way up. That's how its done.

There is only so much help a resume service can do for a college grad; you just don't have a lot of relevant experience. And a resume is just a thing to get you an interview; it does not get you a job. You have to sell yourself in the interview. What can YOU do for the company that is hiring? Everything you can do for a company can be a learning experience, so don't balk at a job you feel is beneath you. Do it and excel at it and then ask for more responsibility. Everyone who is successful has been in that position and leveraged it to help themselves.

Be nice to everyone! You never know who may help you find a good job. Some companies ask the receptionist or even the custodian if they interacted with you and did you treat them nicely. Being nice might get you a job; being a jerk will definitely cost you an opportunity.

And, after having had an interview, here is an old school piece of advice that makes an impression and can differentiate you from a field of similar candidates: Make sure to write down the names and positions of EVERYONE that you meet, from the receptionist, to the peon that gives you a walking tour, to every single person that you interviewed with. THEN, as soon as you get home, write - handwritten - thank you notes to every single one of them and mail them the same day as your interview. It doesn't have to be (and shouldn't be) long, involved, or difficult, but say "thank you for taking the time to meet me" and then throw in one last (short - one sentence) pitch why you are the best person for the job at that company.

 

[boatgeek]

Be nice to everyone! You never know who may help you find a good job. Some companies ask the receptionist or even the custodian if they interacted with you and did you treat them nicely. Being nice might get you a job; being a jerk will definitely cost you an opportunity.

Two short stories to illustrate this:
My college buddy was applying for in internship. His car broke down on the way to the interview so he was 1.5 hours late. When he got there, he was polite to the receptionist, apologetic for being late, and brought his own pens for the paperwork. 15 minutes after he arrived, the interviewing manager rushed in, apologized profusely for being 1.75 hours late, and went ahead with the interview. My friend got the job. The receptionist didn't say that he was late to the interview until his end of summer going away party. If she had, he probably wouldn't have gotten the job.

When I was hiring an intern, we were especially looking for EE students and students not from the colleges we traditionally hired from. A child of a friend from the PTA fit those parameters, so I encouraged him to apply. When I didn't see his resume in the batch from HR, I asked about it. Turned out he had been unprofessional (not rude, just too surfer dude informal) in the initial phone screen at HR, so his resume didn't make it into the top 5 that got a phone interview.

 

[dr wogz]

(I think we lost him..)

 

[burkefj]

Don't ruin it I think zeus cat needs to get this out of his system...

 

[vcp]

(I think we lost him..) Perhaps. I confess I hadn't read the thread as closely as I should and didn't notice the GPA problem.

If you're still there, you can simply forget bothering to apply at large companies. In the past, HR would stack all the applications/resumes for a position in order by GPA, the top 20 skimmed off to examine for perhaps 5-10 interviews. The rest were circular filed. Today, you won't get even that much personal attention - your resume is scanned by software and no one will see anything but the top 20. The only exception might be if you have a truly unique skill that applies to the position, and I don't see that here. The only possible chance is if you know someone who can get you a meeting or contact directly with a hiring manager, bypassing HR.

With that, you've got to focus on small companies, or trade positions that can get you in the door. You mentioned drafting - did you do enough CAD work in school to make you proficient at it? Could you get a certification like the Solidworks Associate (CSWA)? (I'm sure AutoCAD would have something similar.) The CSWA exam is only $100, and if your dad was in the Army he can get you a student copy of Solidworks for $20 to work with. That would give you something to hang a resume on.

One other question - did you take (and pass) the EIT exam? (When I took the EIT, 30-years post-graduation, it was in a room full of college seniors, who were largely hung-over and/or blowing off the [class-required] exam [they had to take it - not necessarily pass it]. Hardest exam I ever studied for, but easier than I expected.) It wouldn't be cheap/easy, but holding an EIT could be a critical credential in your field. (Many GSA engineering positions will require it.) (Yes, the EIT is just a 'test', and doesn't demonstrate any particular knowledge or skill, but it does demonstrate that you are serious about pursuing an engineering career, and may possibly ameliorate the GPA.)

 

[Zeus-cat]

Don't ruin it I think zeus cat needs to get this out of his system...

Just trying to help. Not sure why as he never seems to appreciate the effort people put into their answers.

 

[burkefj]

At my company when we were hiring we typically culled things around 3.2 before they got to us gpa wise, but we were also just hiring masters and above candidates as well, and typically by the time you are in the Masters range your gpa was in the 3.5 or so for what we were looking for. Not that it matters terribly, we had some awful PhD candidates with good grades from good schools, but it does indicate can you learn or teach yourself and reflect that knowledge back. I did my first two years at community college because classes were smaller, content was identical and teachers cared a bit more and cost was 1/3 of the University, my last two years at the University were tough because I had no fluff/liberal arts electives to mix in and just had to carry a full load of hard core engineering but still kept my gpa up.

 

[OverTheTop]

The company I work for looks for competent engineers in the required profession, but they also look for a very varied life outside work. I think I nailed the job (EE) because of car mechanics, photography, horse riding, snow skiing and carnivorous plant collecting. They were also impressed I could drive a tram for some reason. I had a few jobs over my time in public transport that were quite disparate also.

 

[dr wogz]

One company I was at (about 20 years ago!), we were about 65 people. Me, and a few others were the lowest educated. There were about 10 or 15 PhD, slightly more Masters, and the rest were regular B.Sc. A lot of brain power!! The main boardroom had about 20 patents, all framed up and on display.. I guess when you are dealing with creating plasma torches, atomizing metals to powder, and spraying said powders, you need some smarts.. (If you served on CVN-78 - Gerald R. Ford [in waste management!], you've seen some of my work!)

I left to pursue a 'greater' opportunity. that opportunity didn't pan out as expected, and I've regretted it ever since..

 

[Flyfalcons]

Too broke to move dude I simply can’t tell a company that I could pay for moving because I can’t. I’m single 26 and no girlfriend so I don’t care where I move to. Stepdad is annoyed I haven’t found a job in about three months.

This is the most mobile you will be in your entire life. If you want to make it in life, then you may have to do what many of us have done, like packing as many of your clothes and necessities as you can in your car and driving halfway across the country to get a job that will hopefully stepping stone you into something better. Your moving expenses that you "can't afford" are no more than filling your gas tank a few times. I remember the first apartment I had on my own, I slept in a sleeping bag on an air mattress for months until I could afford some real furniture. This has been the best market for job seekers in many years, so suck it up, fill your car's gas tank, and go find something that will get you a regular pay check.

 

[Exactimator]

This is the most mobile you will be in your entire life. If you want to make it in life, then you may have to do what many of us have done, like packing as many of your clothes and necessities as you can in your car and driving halfway across the country to get a job that will hopefully stepping stone you into something better. Your moving expenses that you "can't afford" are no more than filling your gas tank a few times. I remember the first apartment I had on my own, I slept in a sleeping bag on an air mattress for months until I could afford some real furniture. This has been the best market for job seekers in many years, so suck it up, fill your car's gas tank, and go find something that will get you a regular pay check.

I did that right after college. Totally worth it.

 

[grouch]

Elvis has left the building

 

[NateB]

The company I work for looks for competent engineers in the required profession, but they also look for a very varied life outside work. I think I nailed the job (EE) because of car mechanics, photography, horse riding, snow skiing and carnivorous plant collecting. They were also impressed I could drive a tram for some reason. I had a few jobs over my time in public transport that were quite disparate also.

I have not thought of including hobbies in my resume. When we do our peer interviews, we usually ask people what they do outside of work to manage the stress of the job, but unless they admit to drinking heavily to forget a bad day we aren't looking for people with any particular hobby.

 

[Andrew_ASC]

Elvis has left the building

Elvis might have but I’m still here and thankful for all the advice.

 

[dr wogz]

I have not thought of including hobbies in my resume. When we do our peer interviews, we usually ask people what they do outside of work to manage the stress of the job, but unless they admit to drinking heavily to forget a bad day we aren't looking for people with any particular hobby.

I have a list of relevant skills listed (for the position / industry) as well as a list of interests & hobbies at the end.

I was told this is a good thing to include as:

• The skills highlight what skills I have, and that can apply to many different jobs / tasks. So the interviewer doesn't have to weed thru the job history to find out what I've done / what I've learned over the years.. CAD - done at a few paces. Sheet metal design, done at a few places. Pencil sketching. Surprisingly a rare thing among engineers & designers today! (They rely too much of the computer!) and M$ Office suite. Again, knowing how to use Word or Excel can go a long way. No VBA programming, but knowing how to deal with pivot tables, how to make a graph, how to sort data, etc.. in word, how to properly set up a document, make a template, a numbered list, proper use of footers & headers.. Again, lots to know, and most only know a few things..
• Hobbies: for me, includes photography, rocketry (duh!) R/C planes & model making, home renovations. This shows I am versed in a few fields that may be an asset. I can use a camera. This can help with reports, with documentation of .. , with social events. (of course, everyone wiht a smart phone is a photographer today..) Model building, I can put together a mock-up or a model to represent the design / intent. That I can use my hands. Same with home renovations, that I can abide by codes & by-laws, and that tools generally don't scare me. (And I have worked with engineers who can't turn a wrench or screw driver.. )

 

[boatgeek]

I have a list of relevant skills listed (for the position / industry) as well as a list of interests & hobbies at the end.

I was told this is a good thing to include as:

• The skills highlight what skills I have, and that can apply to many different jobs / tasks. So the interviewer doesn't have to weed thru the job history to find out what I've done / what I've learned over the years.. CAD - done at a few paces. Sheet metal design, done at a few places. Pencil sketching. Surprisingly a rare thing among engineers & designers today! (They rely too much of the computer!) and M$ Office suite. Again, knowing how to use Word or Excel can go a long way. No VBA programming, but knowing how to deal with pivot tables, how to make a graph, how to sort data, etc.. in word, how to properly set up a document, make a template, a numbered list, proper use of footers & headers.. Again, lots to know, and most only know a few things..
• Hobbies: for me, includes photography, rocketry (duh!) R/C planes & model making, home renovations. This shows I am versed in a few fields that may be an asset. I can use a camera. This can help with reports, with documentation of .. , with social events. (of course, everyone wiht a smart phone is a photographer today..) Model building, I can put together a mock-up or a model to represent the design / intent. That I can use my hands. Same with home renovations, that I can abide by codes & by-laws, and that tools generally don't scare me. (And I have worked with engineers who can't turn a wrench or screw driver.. )

Having hobbies listed also gives you something to talk about in the interview that humanizes you and makes you memorable. If there's a line of 10 people interviewing, you'd rather be remembered as the person who flies rockets than the person in the green shirt. In very rare cases, it may help get an interview.

 

[dr wogz]

Another thing I have on my resume is "Portfolio available upon request".

I have a few items I like to bring & show off, to showcase my abilities, and what I've accomplished. Most are professional designs & illustrations, but I do have a few personal projects in there. (And yes, one is a rocket, done up in CAD. An Aerobee Hi 2-stager)

 

[dhbarr]

I have not thought of including hobbies in my resume. When we do our peer interviews, we usually ask people what they do outside of work to manage the stress of the job, but unless they admit to drinking heavily to forget a bad day we aren't looking for people with any particular hobby.

I don't much care what they're into, just that they are interested in something and engaged when telling me about it.

 

[0011001100]

Having hobbies listed also gives you something to talk about in the interview that humanizes you and makes you memorable. If there's a line of 10 people interviewing, you'd rather be remembered as the person who flies rockets than the person in the green shirt. In very rare cases, it may help get an interview.

Just for having rocketry on my resume, the interviewer was very interested (was a defense contractor). I didn't get the job because I am still a freshman and they wanted sophomores, but having this hobby on their got their attention.

Also Andrew, coming from a fellow mech student (albeit a freshy), see if your professors have any contacts. If you are on the good side with a professor they may be able to put a good word in for you to at least get you an interview. Mine has and I've got a position in the fall on a research project though I am still looking for things for the summer.

 

[Knuckledragger]

Three hots and a cot! I retired in 06 from the flight line. Deployed to 7 countries, vacationed in 33, lived in 5, spent 14 years overseas. Is it for every one? No but you commit to 4 years and see how it goes, then another 4, and .... next thing you have three degrees (they paid for = 0 student debt), saw the world, learned to work independently and as a team member in a diverse environment and possibly with a security clearance to boot while collecting base pay, housing allowance, and Cost of Living Allowance that I invested. Plus the networking with civilians as contract tech reps or in house Civil Service - and that is the door opener. Getting to work side by side with the civilian counterparts has landed more of my co-workers contract jobs outside of their career field and within. I may have just benefitted in the same way. Have an interview next week for a position I really want to be part of. Recruiters have to work to fill the shortfalls in career fields, that is their first function "the needs of the AF". My best friend was a weapons troop, got his bachelor's and commissioned, the USAF paid for him to go to Cal Tech for his MS electrical engineering degree and he retired as a Major with 22yrs in. He was a communications satellite project manager for the USAF and now pulls $170k doing the same job as a contractor. Point being there are opportunities there but you have to talk to people and seek them out.

 

[boatgeek]

Also Andrew, coming from a fellow mech student (albeit a freshy), see if your professors have any contacts. If you are on the good side with a professor they may be able to put a good word in for you to at least get you an interview. Mine has and I've got a position in the fall on a research project though I am still looking for things for the summer.

+1 I should have taken advantage of this when I was a student.