AeroTech Open Thread

[Art Upton]

Red a shot, at least to say I tried every load for that underrated case. Who knows... I might like it better than the F27.

I wonder why it is 'underrated' ? Everyone clamored for that case before it came out

I even still have an EX one that used the 24/40 closures that was made by a regional. Not going to sell it as someone might try to put 24/60 reloads in it and the closures not hold. There is a reason AT changed the threads

 

[2-0turbo]

I think 24mm needs more love. It’s mostly blue thunder and white lightning. Only 1 red and it’s an F. Aerotech should challenge themselves to make a 24mm super thunder. A real 29mm F/G super thunder would be nice too (not counting that G12 thing)

@AeroTech hinted at a G55 comeback. ~110 N-s in a 24 mm case. That would be DMS though, which is fine by me. I would love to have that motor back.

AeroTech purged a bunch of SKUs last year and so far, has offered them once in a seasonal order. They did that apparently as they didn’t sell well. Most of us have recommended more motors we would like to see (me included), but honestly AT has so many different motors, if they had fewer options, stock situations would likely improve. Making more of a fewer variety of motors is easier that 400 different ones (I don’t know the number, but it’s a lot). Honestly, this is where RMS shines as the grains get used in multiple motors and AT just has to crank out grains and package them per the design.

EDIT PS: I think we should peel off an iLaunch thread. It’s a cool product, but I don’t own one and have no current plans to buy one.

 

[Art Upton]

Providing neither does require HazMat shipping [due to down-the-road 'legal' requirements]:
-Whichever IS the lesser cost;
-Whichever is DMS, providing costs are similar-enough;
-H161, as an L1 cert. flight motor, perhaps;
-Whichever has the 'prettiest' flame, as so-judged by the majority of fliers;
-Whichever, if one does, have the notably-greater liftoff acceleration?

29/180 reloads, all $34.99 list price

The G75J, very close to full G is Hazmat
The H165R is a 161ns motor for L1 cert purposes , non-Hazmat; as are the other two 180 reloads in H128WL and H238BT

No DMS near that line, you have G80 and H135, below and above that line. G80's total impulse as a DMS motor is to keep it non-Hazmat, the H135 is Hazmat

Single Use Gs are about $38.99 list price and 100-112ns total impulse
The G80T DMS is 137ns & G125T DMS is 128ns and $38.99 list and Non-Hazmat

FYI, the G125 needs an HPR cert, but it is non-HazMat to ship as it is not a full G motor and the propellent weight is under that magic number

 

[Art Upton]

@AeroTech hinted at a G55 comeback. ~110 N-s in a 24 mm case. That would be DMS though, which is fine by me. I would love to have that motor back.

Yes , on an G55, you don't want to have to worry about losing a case. Sell more that way

 

[AeroTech]

Yes , on an G55, you don't want to have to worry about losing a case. Sell more that way

It’s in the works. Motor is designed and parts ordered for the R&D phase.

 

[kjhambrick]

I would definitely be in line to purchase a few SWL loads for the many 54/1706 cases that my wife owns and lets me use. There might even be some room in the bin we keep 1706 reloads in, not sure after the recent purchases we made on Black Saturday.

I've tried to find Super White Lightning on the RCS > Store > Propellant Grains page but if it is there, it is not obvious.

Is it listed ?

I see that the ISP of a 54mm stick of White Lightning is listed as 213.8 sec and 54mm Slow -and- Slower White Lightning are 215.8 secs.

How does the ISP of Super White Lightning compare to White Lightning ?

As for a new RMS 54/1706 reload ...

For me, more reload choices are better but as @2-0turbo said, AT biz necessities may not match my desires

-- kjh

 

[boatgeek]

I personally would buy more A) Full G at 160ns. Nearest club that can fly H and above to me is at least 2.5 hour drive for me in any direction, so I am limited to G and below for my "local" club. So besides the G75, which is a great load, it would be nice to have more options in the 180 case.*

*This is my opinion. As my opinion I don't expect nor imply it is more important than anyone else's. I felt I had to post that disclaimer due to the attack on my other opinion

Same for me. My field for up to G motors is 45 minutes away. My HPR field is 4 hours each way.

 

[boatgeek]

I think 24mm needs more love. It’s mostly blue thunder and white lightning. Only 1 red and it’s an F. Aerotech should challenge themselves to make a 24mm super thunder. A real 29mm F/G super thunder would be nice too (not counting that G12 thing)

Isn’t the F51 an ST load?

 

[Art Upton]

Same for me. My field for up to G motors is 45 minutes away. My HPR field is 4 hours each way.

Do they allow HPR G motors like the G125?
Or is your local field really just LMR-MPR only?

Only Curious about how clubs make the rulings and reasons why are many

 

[Art Upton]

Isn’t the F51 an ST load?

NT load, new blue thunder

https://aerotech-rocketry.com/products/product_f3699ab7-cca7-8afe-753f-533eb6899d9e

 

[Papa Elf]

I wonder why it is 'underrated' ? Everyone clamored for that case before it came out

I even still have an EX one that used the 24/40 closures that was made by a regional. Not going to sell it as someone might try to put 24/60 reloads in it and the closures not hold. There is a reason AT changed the threads

yeah, I have seen several people "complain" about it here and in person... but seriously it is a nice case. I have burned several F35's. I personally prefer them over the 24/40's F24.

Here is me breaking in my RMS 24/60 and my first F35 with a not yet painted Strong Arm (about 12 years ago)


And here is my favorite F35 flight so far

 

[AeroTech]

I've tried to find Super White Lightning on the RCS > Store > Propellant Grains page but if it is there, it is not obvious.

Is it listed ?

I see that the ISP of a 54mm stick of White Lightning is listed as 213.8 sec and 54mm Slow -and- Slower White Lightning are 215.8 secs.

How does the ISP of Super White Lightning compare to White Lightning ?

As for a new RMS 54/1706 reload ...

For me, more reload choices are better but as @2-0turbo said, AT biz necessities may not match my desires

-- kjh

Super White Lightning is not listed on the RCS store. Yet.

Super White has a significantly higher Isp than regular WL but has a lower density.

Still putting 95% of our manufacturing efforts into catching up with orders. Our propellant output last week was 76% over the YTD average, so we are making progress.

 

[kjhambrick]

yeah, I have seen several people "complain" about it here and in person... but seriously it is a nice case. I have burned several F35's. I personally prefer them over the 24/40's F24.

Here is me breaking in my RMS 24/60 and my first F35 with a not yet painted Strong Arm (about 12 years ago)
<<snip video>>

And here is my favorite F35 flight so far
<<snip video>>

Nice videos, @Papa Elf !

I love the RMS 24/60 F35W ... thanks for the reminder ... They're all gone ... I need to order more of them

-- kjh

 

[kjhambrick]

Super White Lightning is not listed on the RCS store. Yet.

Super White has a significantly higher Isp than regular WL but has a lower density.

Still putting 95% of our manufacturing efforts into catching up with orders. Our propellant output last week was 76% over the YTD average, so we are making progress.

No worries, Gary.

I was just curious because I read that Super White Lightning had a high ISP.

It sounds like you have your hands full and I don't want to get in the way -- Please keep doing what you're doing !

Thanks !

-- kjh

 

[tsmith1315]

It’s in the works. Motor is designed and parts ordered for the R&D phase.

So we need to be ordering 24mm parts...

 

[boatgeek]

Do they allow HPR G motors like the G125?
Or is your local field really just LMR-MPR only?

Only Curious about how clubs make the rulings and reasons why are many

While there is a club that flies there (Washington Aerospace Club), the field is open any time soccer games/practices aren't going on, so most of my launches are "lone wolf" ones alongside the TARC team I mentor. Either way, the field is limited to G impulse by field dimensions and 2400' by controlled airspace above. That said, you don't really want to fly above about 1000' on anything but a very calm day if you want to get your rocket back. WAC doesn't add limitations on HPR G motors, though @BEC would know for sure. I've flown an awful lot of G125 motors there with the TARC team. It's a fun motor on a large-ish Class 1 rocket.

 

[Art Upton]

While there is a club that flies there (Washington Aerospace Club), the field is open any time soccer games/practices aren't going on, so most of my launches are "lone wolf" ones alongside the TARC team I mentor. Either way, the field is limited to G impulse by field dimensions and 2400' by controlled airspace above. That said, you don't really want to fly above about 1000' on anything but a very calm day if you want to get your rocket back. WAC doesn't add limitations on HPR G motors, though @BEC would know for sure. I've flown an awful lot of G125 motors there with the TARC team. It's a fun motor on a large-ish Class 1 rocket.

So the field is only 1000 feet not 1500?

 

[boatgeek]

So the field is only 1000 feet not 1500?

Yeah, it's about 1100x1300 on the field itself. In theory, you could claim it was 1500x1500 if you claimed a piece of open hillside to the east (maybe OK) and a piece of the horse farm to the north (dodgy) or the field across the road to the south (definitely dodgy) as part of your field. WAC quite reasonably doesn't play that game, and I've taken the more conservative approach too. No doubt there are lone wolves who fly H motors. I may or may not have seen one of those fly by someone with a higher cert level than mine.

 

[BEC]

While there is a club that flies there (Washington Aerospace Club), the field is open any time soccer games/practices aren't going on, so most of my launches are "lone wolf" ones alongside the TARC team I mentor. Either way, the field is limited to G impulse by field dimensions and 2400' by controlled airspace above. That said, you don't really want to fly above about 1000' on anything but a very calm day if you want to get your rocket back. WAC doesn't add limitations on HPR G motors, though @BEC would know for sure. I've flown an awful lot of G125 motors there with the TARC team. It's a fun motor on a large-ish Class 1 rocket.

Yeah, it's about 1100x1300 on the field itself. In theory, you could claim it was 1500x1500 if you claimed a piece of open hillside to the east (maybe OK) and a piece of the horse farm to the north (dodgy) or the field across the road to the south (definitely dodgy) as part of your field. WAC quite reasonably doesn't play that game, and I've taken the more conservative approach too. No doubt there are lone wolves who fly H motors. I may or may not have seen one of those fly by someone with a higher cert level than mine.

It sounds like you have the limitations at Sixty Acres figured out better than I do.

I'm much more likely to be pushing the altitude limits than the impulse limits up there (Alpha on a C12, for example).

 

[Art Upton]

Yeah, it's about 1100x1300 on the field itself. In theory, you could claim it was 1500x1500 if you claimed a piece of open hillside to the east (maybe OK) and a piece of the horse farm to the north (dodgy) or the field across the road to the south (definitely dodgy) as part of your field. WAC quite reasonably doesn't play that game, and I've taken the more conservative approach too. No doubt there are lone wolves who fly H motors. I may or may not have seen one of those fly by someone with a higher cert level than mine.

Yea, you really don't want to play games with dodgy field definitions, not at all

The horse farm is out for counting it part of the field size assignment. They are not part of the launch site, unless you get them to agree to it, and have it in writing should something bad ever happen.

If cars are going across the road that are not affiliated with the launch, then that road is a field boundary; unless the traffic is like almost non-existent which I doubt at a park. There is a definition of how many cars per time period I recall, or it used to be in 1127.

My old paid-for copy of 1127 is in the cat-a-combs and I'm not about to play with NFPAs viewer game right now. But I do want to find out if that 'cars-per-x-hours' on a non-affiliated road still exists in the boundary rules, now that it has hit my memory banks.

 

[bad_idea]

@AeroTech hinted at a G55 comeback. ~110 N-s in a 24 mm case. That would be DMS though, which is fine by me. I would love to have that motor back.

It’s in the works. Motor is designed and parts ordered for the R&D phase.

Really looking forward to this. The CTI 24mm G motors are great, but they're very thin on the ground these days and are significantly heavier than the G55 was (around 60g heavier, from the old cert doc).

Will the G55 have a molded thrust ring, or a glued one?

Our propellant output last week was 76% over the YTD average, so we are making progress.

Sounds promising! Thanks for the news.

 

[Papa Elf]

I am looking forward to the promise of the return of the G55. Although I personally would prefer it being RMS, I am happy that this is being developed. This will allow Ed Miller's Sonic Shock to take to the air again!

 

[2-0turbo]

I am looking forward to the promise of the return of the G55. Although I personally would prefer it being RMS, I am happy that this is being developed. This will allow Ed Miller's Sonic Shock to take to the air again!

Oooh! I’m in the definite DMS crowd on this one. I will be putting these G55’s in the “send it” category and would rather not risk $60 in hardware. Estes Hi Flier XL. Estes Cherokee E. Mean Machine.

High likelihood I’ll be donating these to the rocket gods.

 

[rharshberger]

It’s in the works. Motor is designed and parts ordered for the R&D phase.

Looking forward to this motor coming back, the G55W and G110T's are two of my favorite motors, and Vanishing Act my 29mm SBR Mini-Fusion loves them.

 

[rharshberger]

So we need to be ordering 24mm parts...

yep...got a hand rolled Carbon Fiber 24mm tube ready to go....

 

[Art Upton]

I have a 24mm MonoGoose built...

 

[AeroTech]

Really looking forward to this. The CTI 24mm G motors are great, but they're very thin on the ground these days and are significantly heavier than the G55 was (around 60g heavier, from the old cert doc).

Will the G55 have a molded thrust ring, or a glued one?

Sounds promising! Thanks for the news.

Glued 3D printed thrust ring like the other fiberglass case DMS motors. It will be a bit heavier because the old ones used a phenolic case.

 

[tsmith1315]

yep...got a hand rolled Carbon Fiber 24mm tube ready to go....

Post pics when done!

 

[Papa Elf]

Oooh! I’m in the definite DMS crowd on this one. I will be putting these G55’s in the “send it” category and would rather not risk $60 in hardware. Estes Hi Flier XL. Estes Cherokee E. Mean Machine.

High likelihood I’ll be donating these to the rocket gods.

They could do what they did with the RMS 29/120. They Offer the G77 and G79 in both a RMS and DMS version... one for someone that wants to send it... and the other for someone like me... who likes to have more control over the assembly of the motor, better ignition options, and ability to inspect the parts,,, unless its done like a LMS. To bad LMS didn't really take off. I liked that concept. Best of both worlds.

 

[bad_idea]

Glued 3D printed thrust ring like the other fiberglass case DMS motors. It will be a bit heavier because the old ones used a phenolic case.

That's perfect, as I can sand it to fit the 25mm OD carbon tubes I have.