AeroTech Open Thread

AeroTech

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It's "next week."

Any K1800ST news? :)

And don't tempt me with a good time and that O5280!!

Also, I was thinking recently, which is dangerous.....

Blue Thunder in the 98/15k case?? Is it possible or too erosive? Maybe a few WL grains at the bottom to "take one for the team?"
I know Dane is working on the information release for the K1800ST.

No plans yet for a 98/15360 BT reload though. 😞
 

3stoogesrocketry

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It's "next week."

Any K1800ST news? :)

And don't tempt me with a good time and that O5280!!

Also, I was thinking recently, which is dangerous.....

Blue Thunder in the 98/15k case?? Is it possible or too erosive? Maybe a few WL grains at the bottom to "take one for the team?"
You should look into the old 98/18kns N4800T. Thumping good motors.
 

BSNW

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Is there a consolidated list somewhere of which motors use a medusa nozzle?

(Backstory.....someone :) went and put together a 54mm J315 and a 54mm J1299 several weeks ago (both 554/852 cases), and the launch was scrubbed due to weather.....and the labels aren't clear. So, one has a medusa nozzle, one a conventional nozzle.....which is which?)
J315
 

Theory

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Did the rail allow you to keep your rail buttons or did it decide to remove them for you?

When I fly the K1499N, it removes my buttons for me so I always view them as expendable. 🤣

no, to date have never lost a rail button.

I like to run the screw for the button into the forward and aft centering ring. Ends up being extremely solid. Over 20 flights on the one pictured above with no issues.
 

Jay Dub 4009

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firemanup

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“Internal changes to increase their own efficiencies should be explored extensively. Product offerings and demand for them should be reviewed as well, in my view, including the areas of sales volume and the profit generated in those areas. Were I a motor manufacturer, which I am not, I'd be knee deep in that analysis now.”

We’ve been able to stay in business for over 40 years, do you not think that we are already doing all those things, and have been on a regular basis? Again, the example that I presented earlier shows that at least for some motors, we have researched and applied more efficient methodologies and materials that allow us to price products significantly below the historical inflation factors over time.

These type of comments have been made over the decades of previous price increases. Yet the hobby is still growing.

My recommendation to those who find themselves not able to afford their previous level of participation in the hobby due to inflationary pressure, is to fly fewer motors, fly smaller motors, make their own, or a combination of all these approaches. I’m not trying to sound harsh but that is the reality of and a practical response to the situation.
So I generally order most if not all of my orders the day before thanksgiving from Tim, as I did last night.

Did so last night and compared many repeat motors to last years invoice and I’m seeing a TWENTY percent or more increase over last years prices. (One example: $300 last year $366 this year)

You talk about staying below historical inflation prices over the years, it doesn’t appear so this year however on any of the L, M, or N motors I ordered.

Is this year an outlier? Have you ever increased by twenty percent in a single year before? Maybe I missed an earlier post covering this.

I know I got a three percent wage increase this year and as everything else has gone up damn near 20 percent or more it’s obvious that discretionary spending will have to go down, and mine did on my big order by about a third.

If motors go up 20% again next year, I will not be making another order.

Just my ramblings.
 

wonderboy

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Is this year an outlier? Have you ever increased by twenty percent in a single year before? Maybe I missed an earlier post covering this.

In my opinion, that's a pretty unfair way to phrase the question. How many years prior had the price been constant and unchanged? 5 years? 10 years? I think we need to consider that percent increase spread over all previous years where the cost was constant (since we were reaping the benefits of lower cost not influenced by inflation). I think it's already been addressed that if you compare the costs from many years ago to now, we were paying higher prices in the past than now (adjusted for inflation).
 

firemanup

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In my opinion, that's a pretty unfair way to phrase the question. How many years prior had the price been constant and unchanged? 5 years? 10 years? I think we need to consider that percent increase spread over all previous years where the cost was constant (since we were reaping the benefits of lower cost not influenced by inflation). I think it's already been addressed that if you compare the costs from many years ago to now, we were paying higher prices in the past than now (adjusted for inflation).
I have no issue with them raising prices by 20% if that’s what they have to do, then they have to do it.

However I also understand how huge 20% in one year is, that’s insanely huge.

My primary point was that 2 years in a row of 20% will drive me out of the hobby or completely change how I participate.

One year at 20% completely changed my order, two years in double digits will stop my ordering.
 

firemanup

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Additionally, the discount from wildman was 32% instead of 35%, so some of the change isn't from Aerotech.

Why not just buy fewer motors? I'm confused why prices increases would just make you quit entirely.
Good point 35 vs 32 I couldn’t remember what last year was.

We will all make changes accordingly to what is important or fun to us.

I like flying Ms and Ls, that’s where I get my kicks.

For me, just like for everybody else I imagine there comes a point where the bang for the buck ratio no longer works, I’m just saying my ratio is right on the edge now.
 

Bill S

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I have no issue with them raising prices by 20% if that’s what they have to do, then they have to do it.

However I also understand how huge 20% in one year is, that’s insanely huge.

My primary point was that 2 years in a row of 20% will drive me out of the hobby or completely change how I participate.

One year at 20% completely changed my order, two years in double digits will stop my ordering.
Are there any changes you could make in your financial situation to free up more money for your hobbies? Most people have significant "wastage" in their budget that could be redirected. Being as I don't know your particular situation, I can't suggest specific things, but a more generic approach of tracking every penny for a month or two will show where the money is going may suggest areas to trim.

We all have to deal with inflation and wage "increases" that don't keep up with inflation. Discussing why we have said inflation would delve into politics, so I won't.
 

AeroTech

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So I generally order most if not all of my orders the day before thanksgiving from Tim, as I did last night.

Did so last night and compared many repeat motors to last years invoice and I’m seeing a TWENTY percent or more increase over last years prices. (One example: $300 last year $366 this year)

You talk about staying below historical inflation prices over the years, it doesn’t appear so this year however on any of the L, M, or N motors I ordered.

Is this year an outlier? Have you ever increased by twenty percent in a single year before? Maybe I missed an earlier post covering this.

I know I got a three percent wage increase this year and as everything else has gone up damn near 20 percent or more it’s obvious that discretionary spending will have to go down, and mine did on my big order by about a third.

If motors go up 20% again next year, I will not be making another order.

Just my ramblings.
This year is definitely an outlier, but the concern began last year. As far as I know we have never had to increase prices in one year as much as we have this year. Businesses and individuals are experiencing record inflation that this country hasn't seen in 40 years or more. Worse, many suppliers of materials that are used in rocket motors have increased prices far above the average inflationary percentages, and have increased prices multiple times this year. This could be because there are more limited markets for these commodities and less competition among the suppliers than things like food and other consumer staple goods. As an example our cost for AP more than tripled in the last two years or so.

Interest rates for borrowed funds have soared and that is also taking a big bite out of our bottom line.

We did not raise prices enough to maintain our margins where we would like, so we will have to cut back on R&D, equipment, launches attended, advertisements, trade shows and other marketing expenses. We have already cut or eliminated a number of expenses in these areas. We are also making some work force reductions.

A business must maintain at least a meager profit and positive cash flow to stay in business. However there is risk with a low or no profit as a business may not not able to weather the internal and external insults to its operation that constantly arise. We are a private company and have limited access to financial resources beyond what is currently being implemented.
 
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tjsnakez

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I am happy to pay whatever I have to or am able to in order to continue flying rockets. It is interesting to point out that the prices for the larger motors were pretty stagnant for the last 20 years or so until the recent price increases.

Here are the prices for an M1315 and N2000 over the years according to the wayback machine.

2001 —> $275, $700
2004 —> $320, $840
Fairly stagnant until price increase in 2016? I’m having trouble finding when that happened.
2019 —> $335, $950
 

Rocketjunkie

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Here are the prices for an M1315 and N2000 over the years according to the wayback machine.

2001 —> $275, $700
2004 —> $320, $840
Fairly stagnant until price increase in 2016? I’m having trouble finding when that happened.
2019 —> $335, $950
Now $456, $1216 (CS Rocketry, Wildman - no discounts)
 

Titan II

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Here are the prices for an M1315 and N2000 over the years according to the wayback machine.

2001 —> $275, $700
2004 —> $320, $840
Fairly stagnant until price increase in 2016? I’m having trouble finding when that happened.
2019 —> $335, $950

Now $456, $1216 (CS Rocketry, Wildman - no discounts)

Actually, not at all bad. Based on the average inflation rate, they would be $462 and $1176.

Edit...AT beat me to it as I was typing.
 

n3tjm

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I personally would like to see Propellant x in the 852 and 1280 case too.

And I was just talking to another rocket friend of mine, and we were discussing how we wish the K550 still had the Medusa nozzle. I never flew one with a medusa nozzle.
 

tjsnakez

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I personally would like to see Propellant x in the 852 and 1280 case too.

And I was just talking to another rocket friend of mine, and we were discussing how we wish the K550 still had the Medusa nozzle. I never flew one with a medusa nozzle.
You can get a Medusa nozzle from RCS if you were so inclined. Or just fly a J415.
 
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