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AdAstraPerAspera

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Here are the instructions I was talking about in my post.

Here's the step-by-step instructions (Assembly and Operations Instructions) : J570
Here is the instructions included with the reload (Assembly Drawing and Notes): RMS-EZ 38/480-1320 Instructions

As you can see from the two sets of instructions, for the first time doing reload the step-by-step is of much value. The spacer guide is great too! I keep that as a reference. In fact I think I saw someone had it laminated.
Every Aerotech reload I ever built, came with a version of the former set of instructions, the preferred one. I haven't built an "EZ"load yet. It looks to me like they sent the wrong instructions, unless the J-570 is an EZ load now, in which case I'll take that off my list of motors to buy... I love that motor, but I won't fly a plastic bulkhead.

Is there a list of which loads are now EZ loads?
 

crossfire

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Every Aerotech reload I ever built, came with a version of the former set of instructions, the preferred one. I haven't built an "EZ"load yet. It looks to me like they sent the wrong instructions, unless the J-570 is an EZ load now, in which case I'll take that off my list of motors to buy... I love that motor, but I won't fly a plastic bulkhead.

Is there a list of which loads are now EZ loads?
The EZ J520 is a great motor. Plus no haz-mat fee
 

Walter Longburn

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According to thrustcurve.org the J520 has 671 N-s.
According to the aerotech master motor matrix 730.6 N-s... 🤷‍♂️
 

BEC

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+1 on that. An enjoyable and informative talk. Thanks for posting and thanks to Gary for making the presentation and allowing Tim to post it on YouTube.
 

AeroTech

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We used to get lots of complaints about the individual assembly instructions, that’s why we switched to using the more generic instructions. We’ve had far fewer issues and complaints since.

As far as I know the older individual instructions are still available on the AeroTech website for those that still prefer them, for those reloads that existed before the more generic instructions were released.

I will admit that I fly CTI motors mostly, but also some Aerotech. Would it not be relatively easy to have an individual assembly instruction available for each motor? The steps needed are slightly different between each in some cases and having individual instructions might make for less confusion and concern during assembly and a more stress-free process.

The o-ring guides are fantastic and should be part of any assembly instructions.

The downside is, of course, if any changes are needed there are multiple documents to update.

From a customer perspective you know which one is better if you want exemplary customer service ;).

If CTI are listening here as well you can learn from these suggestions too!
 
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AeroTech

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There is only one EZ load, the USPS-shippable J520W. It has been a very popular and successful product.

Every Aerotech reload I ever built, came with a version of the former set of instructions, the preferred one. I haven't built an "EZ"load yet. It looks to me like they sent the wrong instructions, unless the J-570 is an EZ load now, in which case I'll take that off my list of motors to buy... I love that motor, but I won't fly a plastic bulkhead.

Is there a list of which loads are now EZ loads?
 

AeroTech

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Thanks and you’re welcome.

+1 on that. An enjoyable and informative talk. Thanks for posting and thanks to Gary for making the presentation and allowing Tim to post it on YouTube.
 

ChicagoDave

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We used to get lots of complaints about the individual assembly instructions, that’s why we switched to using the more generic instructions. We’ve had far fewer issues and complaints since.

As far as I know the older individual instructions are still available on the AeroTech website for those that still prefer them, for those reloads that existed before the more generic instructions were released.
Yes, the older individual instructions are on the AeroTech website and for the first time assembling the motors I really appreciate having those instructions over the more generic versions. If at all possible, please don't stop making the individual instructions!! I really appreciate having them *and* the other instructions.

We'll see how well I followed them this weekend - my first time flying the 38/1080 casing :)

Thanks!!

~Dave~
 

crossfire

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Yes, the older individual instructions are on the AeroTech website and for the first time assembling the motors I really appreciate having those instructions over the more generic versions. If at all possible, please don't stop making the individual instructions!! I really appreciate having them *and* the other instructions.

We'll see how well I followed them this weekend - my first time flying the 38/1080 casing :)

Thanks!!

~Dave~
Dave fly the J520 in that case. Great motor.
 

dpower

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OK, so it really wouldn’t matter to you if the Mantis was updated, right (even though it was actually updated some time ago with a stronger plastic)? 😉
That’s good to know, I’ve been keeping my old Mantis going from scavenged parts, but maybe I’ll just chuck it and start over. The part that breaks the most often are the clips on the center pivot that hold the adjustment wheel. Down to one clip (of 4) left. Any way to tell if a pad has the newer plastic?
 

AdAstraPerAspera

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There is only one EZ load, the USPS-shippable J520W. It has been a very popular and successful product.
USPS shippable is nice. I try to buy in the field, or save up for a large hazmat order, but occasionally I order non-hazmat stuff. Unfortunately it drops the performance to near that of the next smaller case's regular hazmat loads.

I don't understand, though, the switch to EZ loads. It required new tooling, should be more expensive for you to manufacture, it required me to buy a new hardware part, and I don't get to build the motor myself. I enjoy putting reloads together. Maybe that's unusual, but in a hobby where much of is about building kits (and things from scratch), I can't be alone.

Is that statement that it is the only EZ load just for the 38/1080 case, out have you been switching other 38 loads back?
 

AeroTech

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Good luck with your flight!

Yes, the older individual instructions are on the AeroTech website and for the first time assembling the motors I really appreciate having those instructions over the more generic versions. If at all possible, please don't stop making the individual instructions!! I really appreciate having them *and* the other instructions.

We'll see how well I followed them this weekend - my first time flying the 38/1080 casing :)

Thanks!!

~Dave~
 

AeroTech

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I think the high impact styrene pads were molded in white, and the ABS plastic pads were molded in gray and red.

Edit: If you send Karl a nice email at warranty@aerotech-rocketry.com he will probably send you replacements for the broken parts. ;-)

That’s good to know, I’ve been keeping my old Mantis going from scavenged parts, but maybe I’ll just chuck it and start over. The part that breaks the most often are the clips on the center pivot that hold the adjustment wheel. Down to one clip (of 4) left. Any way to tell if a pad has the newer plastic?
 
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AeroTech

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We designed the EZ bulkhead in response to comments from a quite a few customers (mostly new people to the hobby and those using the other brand) who thought that the RMS delay assembly process was "too difficult". We thought that a preassembled delay bulkhead would address those concerns and be more competitive with the other brand.

The original EZ concept was eventually abandoned due to delay burn through problems in the field, but since then we discovered a way to greatly improve the reliability of the delay. This improvement has been field tested with the J520W with great success.

Ultimately our answer to the demand for "easy" rocket motors was the DMS.

Right now we have no plans to switch the remainder of the RMS line to EZ bulkheads. Instead, we MAY offer them in the future as an accessory alternative to the multi-component delay bulkhead at some point.

USPS shippable is nice. I try to buy in the field, or save up for a large hazmat order, but occasionally I order non-hazmat stuff. Unfortunately it drops the performance to near that of the next smaller case's regular hazmat loads.

I don't understand, though, the switch to EZ loads. It required new tooling, should be more expensive for you to manufacture, it required me to buy a new hardware part, and I don't get to build the motor myself. I enjoy putting reloads together. Maybe that's unusual, but in a hobby where much of is about building kits (and things from scratch), I can't be alone.

Is that statement that it is the only EZ load just for the 38/1080 case, out have you been switching other 38 loads back?
 

OverTheTop

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We used to get lots of complaints about the individual assembly instructions, that’s why we switched to using the more generic instructions. We’ve had far fewer issues and complaints since.
:) Thanks for the insight. How bizarre, that people would want something generic, rather than specific. Even taking into account the variability of humans I think this is really a case of half the people being below average.

Good to know they are still there. I will dig next time I fly my 54mm 1706 case.
 

grouch

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Gary, I watched your presentation and enjoyed it immensely but I had one question. You mentioned the best practice for assembling the motors was essentially center out but didn't explain why. Is this a preference thing or is there a secret to the sauce? I have always build your motors with the delay grain and forward closure first, then insert the propellant grains into the liner and then into the motor, screw the forward closure assembly one then follow up with the aft closure. BTW the RMS are "EZ". Viva la difference.
 

AeroTech

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The preference could be that the new instructions have a large drawing of the finished motor, the parts are clearly labeled, step-by-step instructions are immediately under the drawing and the text is larger. And the O-ring guide of course.

The benefit to us is that it is a lot easier to update ~10 sets of instructions than ~100.

:) Thanks for the insight. How bizarre, that people would want something generic, rather than specific. Even taking into account the variability of humans I think this is really a case of half the people being below average.

Good to know they are still there. I will dig next time I fly my 54mm 1706 case.
 

AeroTech

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It’s mostly preference but if you start with the grains and liner you have something to place the other components against. What you describe is basically how I build them. It doesn’t really matter if you build the bulkhead before or after the main components are installed.

Gary, I watched your presentation and enjoyed it immensely but I had one question. You mentioned the best practice for assembling the motors was essentially center out but didn't explain why. Is this a preference thing or is there a secret to the sauce? I have always build your motors with the delay grain and forward closure first, then insert the propellant grains into the liner and then into the motor, screw the forward closure assembly one then follow up with the aft closure. BTW the RMS are "EZ". Viva la difference.
 

SDramstad

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Quick question. In the 75mm RAS, is the forward closure tapped?
 

PatD

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Had two core samples at the last club launch. First HP ballistic recoveries that I can recall. I believe I know what caused the second one, an IO on a G77R. Yes, I have filed a MESS report and yes I have communicated with AT about it and they are replacing the motor, great warranty response. This is in the vein of a public information announcement. Normal motor function and coast. Motor recovery charge failed to fire. This was determined by post mortem exam. The bp charge chamber on the motor was not singed and the unsinged charge cap (along with the bp I assume, hard to tell on a well flown bird) were found in the bt. After I cleaned the dust from the motor charge well I observed what appeared to be epoxy in the touch hole above the delay column. I had checked to ensure that there was bp in the well, but didn't remove it. Guess that is one more thing to check with single use motors in the future. The glint in the photo is the epoxy in the touch hole. AT requested, and I sent to them the casing. The request was framed to use the casing as a training tool. I can understand that. :) I don't have the manufacturers code for the motor because it was one of the motors with a stick on label that precluded inserting it into the motor tube and I scraped it off. Guess I'll have to record that info before I peel a label in the future. Another lesson learned.
9.jpg

7.jpg
 

burkefj

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I've had the same thing happen with a cti g 24mm reload and learned to always remove the black powder and look in the hole and make sure you can see bare delay element.

Frank

Had two core samples at the last club launch. First HP ballistic recoveries that I can recall. I believe I know what caused the second one, an IO on a G77R. Yes, I have filed a MESS report and yes I have communicated with AT about it and they are replacing the motor, great warranty response. This is in the vein of a public information announcement. Normal motor function and coast. Motor recovery charge failed to fire. This was determined by post mortem exam. The bp charge chamber on the motor was not singed and the unsinged charge cap (along with the bp I assume, hard to tell on a well flown bird) were found in the bt. After I cleaned the dust from the motor charge well I observed what appeared to be epoxy in the touch hole above the delay column. I had checked to ensure that there was bp in the well, but didn't remove it. Guess that is one more thing to check with single use motors in the future. The glint in the photo is the epoxy in the touch hole. AT requested, and I sent to them the casing. The request was framed to use the casing as a training tool. I can understand that. :) I don't have the manufacturers code for the motor because it was one of the motors with a stick on label that precluded inserting it into the motor tube and I scraped it off. Guess I'll have to record that info before I peel a label in the future. Another lesson learned.
View attachment 422587
View attachment 422588
 

PatD

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Had two core samples at the last club launch. First HP ballistic recoveries that I can recall. I believe I know what caused the second one, an IO on a G77R. Yes, I have filed a MESS report and yes I have communicated with AT about it and they are replacing the motor, great warranty response. This is in the vein of a public information announcement. Normal motor function and coast. Motor recovery charge failed to fire. This was determined by post mortem exam. The bp charge chamber on the motor was not singed and the unsinged charge cap (along with the bp I assume, hard to tell on a well flown bird) were found in the bt. After I cleaned the dust from the motor charge well I observed what appeared to be epoxy in the touch hole above the delay column. I had checked to ensure that there was bp in the well, but didn't remove it. Guess that is one more thing to check with single use motors in the future. The glint in the photo is the epoxy in the touch hole. AT requested, and I sent to them the casing. The request was framed to use the casing as a training tool. I can understand that. :) I don't have the manufacturers code for the motor because it was one of the motors with a stick on label that precluded inserting it into the motor tube and I scraped it off. Guess I'll have to record that info before I peel a label in the future. Another lesson learned.
View attachment 422587
View attachment 422588
And nobody has hammered me about a G77 not being HP! Thanks guys!!!!
 

AeroTech

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That was a real strange one because no epoxy is used in the delay assembly of our standard single use motors. Apparently what happened was that the employee building the motors got a drip of epoxy in the touch hole during the process of applying the bead of epoxy at the case/bulkhead interface.
 

Theory

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That was a real strange one because no epoxy is used in the delay assembly of our standard single use motors. Apparently what happened was that the employee building the motors got a drip of epoxy in the touch hole during the process of applying the bead of epoxy at the case/bulkhead interface.
had the EXACT SAME THING happen to me last year with a G74. Result was the destruction of my ASP WAC Corporal

I have the issue with the G74 documented on here.

I check all of my SU motors now. Sad this is still an issue.
 

AeroTech

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Just so you know, our production staff has been briefed on this potential issue and our production manager has changed the motor assembly procedures to specifically address it. I don’t expect it to be a problem moving forward.
 

gna

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I flew an F67-6W Economax motor on Saturday. The flight was good; the recovery, not. There was no ejection. Afterwards I checked the motor:
f67-6.jpg

No scorching from ejection charges...

I checked the other one, still in the package:

F67.jpg


So check your motors for ejection charges, otherwise your Leviathan may end up like this:
leviathan.jpg
 
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