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mbeels

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Anyone else seeing this with their AeroTech initiators/igniters? We’re sharing it with our production department.
I had one of my G74 igniters look like David's third photo, one wire was broken.
 

5x7

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I told Karl a qjet bulk pack had about 10 of 25 where the pyrogen was completely gone off the nichrome tip when I got them. There was still a bit of pyrogen on the lead wires. All but one missing the pyrogen still lit the qjet-and fast.
 

n3tjm

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The problem I see with the aerotech Q-jet igniters is they have the filament "sticking" out from the lead wires like the estes igniters do. The nichrome should be wrapped around the leads. I think the reason they did this is perhaps the wrapped around method may not fit in the nozzle throat of the smaller q-jet. But then again, I find the igniters can be difficult with the A and B sizes. I have not tried any of the C's or D's yet, but those nozzles throats are larger. I have made wrap around igniters that fit the throat of D13's. I have also come up with nichromeless igniters that are even better for small throat nozzles.

Also, I have "smashed" plenty of Q-Jet igniters trying to find the core. It does not take much pressure breaking one of them igniters. I even have seen some that came pre-smashed out of the package. It would also be helpful if the propellant grain was against the nozzle, not the delay element. So instead of having nozzle, spacer, propellant, delay grain, I would of done it Nozzle, Propellant, paper disk, spacer, delay grain, That was there is less of a chance of smashing the igniter finding the core.
 

zog139

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Yes, I've seen this with both 29mm hobby reload starters and the Qjet size in packages with motors and packages of just starters.

Jim

Anyone else seeing this with their AeroTech initiators/igniters? We’re sharing it with our production department.
 

LithosphereRocketry

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I've had a couple igniters break but only after sitting on a shelf, being moved around, etc. for a while. Overall my AT igniter experiences have been excellent.
 

swatkat

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Anyone else seeing this with their AeroTech initiators/igniters? We’re sharing it with our production department.
I've seen the black pyrogen fine off to bare wire on the red wired smaller ignitors. I just redip them with another pyrogen and the work fine, but the material is VERY brittle. flakes off with normal light handling.
 

Donnager

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I had a pretty bad run of igniters on 38mm and 29mm DMS motors last year going into this spring. Probably 4 in 10 of the igniters from the package either failed continuity, or wouldn't light the motor.

I also had some 29mm F-67's that had igniter trouble, but those seemed to be more packaging, physical damage type issues, that I'm sure my storage method has some contribution to. I don't believe I've had a 29mm reload ignitor problem.

If E-matches had the same failure rate as I've seen in igniters, I would be very hesitant to use them for dual-deploy.
 

Joshua F Thomas

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Anyone else seeing this with their AeroTech initiators/igniters? We’re sharing it with our production department.
Yes, on my G79-4W, one of the igniters had the pyrogen material fine off the end when I removed it from the tube. Can I put some QuickBurst on the end to use it?
 

Nytrunner

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All Estes igniters now use the new white compound. I get about 7 or 8 fires per every 10 I use. The QuickBurst pyrogen helps.
Are you sure to get the tip in contact with the propellant and hold down the launch button (instead of a single press and release)?

As soon as I started paying attention to how I installed the igniter, my problem with the white tips went away.

Fortunately there's a new igniter with dipped heads coming from estes soon, so this may be a short chapter in the book of igniter woes
 

hprocketeer

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I just got a couple of qjet 12 packs. And one ignitor the wire end was broken. When I picked up another. I bumped it with other hand. And wire broke off with pyrogen.
Then I lined up all of them and put thick ca on the bridge wire to lead wire junctions to strengthen them. A couple had pyrogen dipped far enough to support junction.
But still I am out 2 starters that I need to replace at some time. Inconvenience that could of been avoided with QC. I understand thin bridge wire low current. But couple that with separate lead wires and no support. Also for model rocket use where ruff handling will be the norm.

End of rant. Thank you Aerotech. And I’m sure this will be addressed in time.
Mike
 

Eric

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I had this same problem at Aeronaut back in August at went through 12-14 ignitor for 4-5 flights. They would fire, but not burn all the pyrogen. They were First Fire and First Fire Jr. Became a running joke yelling "don't forget your spare ignitor". Really annoying. I have a couple left from the 3 packs I bought at the field. The dip is darker on one.
 

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AeroTech

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The pyrogen issue has already been addressed. It was more of a process problem than a QC issue. Please contact Karl at kbaumann@aerotech-rocketry.com.

I just got a couple of qjet 12 packs. And one ignitor the wire end was broken. When I picked up another. I bumped it with other hand. And wire broke off with pyrogen.
Then I lined up all of them and put thick ca on the bridge wire to lead wire junctions to strengthen them. A couple had pyrogen dipped far enough to support junction.
But still I am out 2 starters that I need to replace at some time. Inconvenience that could of been avoided with QC. I understand thin bridge wire low current. But couple that with separate lead wires and no support. Also for model rocket use where ruff handling will be the norm.

End of rant. Thank you Aerotech. And I’m sure this will be addressed in time.
Mike
 

mccr3328

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BDB

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Thanks for looking into this. I've had at least a half-dozen AT igniters with broken pyrogen, like David's second picture, over the past year. I fly lots of F23s, F50s, and F67s. Fortunately, I stocked up on a bunch of Estes Sonic igniters that I bought on clearance last year. I have been using them to light the AT motors.
 

BABAR

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Those igniters (these Estes ones) are hit and miss, I get a fair number of failures. I've used QuickDip pyrogen to improve them, but I'd suggest only using a small amount. I've found that trying to add a big fat blob of it does not work as well as a small coating.
For BP Motors I have ditched the plastic plugs, use a small gob of wadding to stuff the igniter into the nozzle using a plastic mechanical pencil (lead retracted.). I spread the wires just a bit to make sure the igniter doesn’t twist and short circuit. I was initially a “naysayer” on the new Estes yellow tips, now for SINGLE motor ignitions I am close to 100% success. I haven’t been very successful using them for clusters.

Jam it in tight, I can gently lift the rocket by the igniter wires if I have it in right.

I have e-matches that work well with large bore BP motors, As, Ds, and the repatriated C5s, I have have good cluster ignitions with As, and A And D combos. They won’t fit in the C6 or B6 motors, unfortunately.
 

mrwalsh85

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To the OP, specifically what e-matches are you using as BP igniters? Are these the blue/white wire version? Do you have a link you can share?
 

Joshua F Thomas

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For BP Motors I have ditched the plastic plugs, use a small gob of wadding to stuff the igniter into the nozzle using a plastic mechanical pencil (lead retracted.). I spread the wires just a bit to make sure the igniter doesn’t twist and short circuit. I was initially a “naysayer” on the new Estes yellow tips, now for SINGLE motor ignitions I am close to 100% success. I haven’t been very successful using them for clusters.

Jam it in tight, I can gently lift the rocket by the igniter wires if I have it in right.

I have e-matches that work well with large bore BP motors, As, Ds, and the repatriated C5s, I have have good cluster ignitions with As, and A And D combos. They won’t fit in the C6 or B6 motors, unfortunately.
I just bought 50 BP igniters from MJG Industries, so I'll be using those going forward. At less than a dollar each they're reasonable and the long wires make for easy clustering setup.

re: Composite motors and igniters, I've been told that composite motors need to build up pressure, and that covering the nozzle with tape after inserting an igniter can help with this. True?
 

timbucktoo

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Composite motors and igniters, I've been told that composite motors need to build up pressure, and that covering the nozzle with tape after inserting an igniter can help with this. True?
That’s true. AT even provides a plastic cap for that purpose. If I remember correctly, CTI does too. At a minimum, I tape the starter to nozzle/retainer to keep it from getting spit out as pressure builds. Have seen many starters get spit out during ignition and have to wait till next rack to try again.
 

Initiator001

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re: Composite motors and igniters, I've been told that composite motors need to build up pressure, and that covering the nozzle with tape after inserting an igniter can help with this. True?
This is incorrect.

Composite/APCP motors need pressure relief to vent the ignition gases or the motor can chuff or be snuffed out.

Both AeroTech and CTI mentioned in their instruction to cut a vent or pressure relief hole in any nozzle caps.
Today's AeroTech motors often use a rubberband to secure the igniter to the outside of the nozzle leaving the nozzle throat open.
 

Joshua F Thomas

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Well, that gives me two completely different answers. Someone from Aerotech have a say?
 

Cesaroni Technologies

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The nozzle caps have little if anything to do with building pressure inside the motor. They're there to hold the igniter in place. In fact we punch holes in the caps so the cap doesn't push off under the initial pressure. On some commercial motors and for testing we will install a burst disc to help bring the motor up to pressure.
 

tfish

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The nozzle caps have little if anything to do with building pressure inside the motor. They're there to hold the igniter in place. In fact we punch holes in the caps so the cap doesn't push off under the initial pressure. On some commercial motors and for testing we will install a burst disc to help bring the motor up to pressure.
Welcome back CTI!

Tony
 

BDB

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To the OP, specifically what e-matches are you using as BP igniters? Are these the blue/white wire version? Do you have a link you can share?
I have been using orange e-matches from Ebay, like the ones shown in post #48, to light BP motors for a few years now. They fit well into Estes 24 and 29 mm motors, but I even use them to light 18 mm motors for clusters. They key is to mount the e-match head at the opening of the nozzle with a bunch of tape.
 

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