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Aerotech I59 Issues

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Dugway

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I have two Aerotech I59s that I would love to fly this weekend at HellFire. My problem is that the last TWO times I flew this reload, my rocket and casing were destroyed due to burn through. Two years ago it burned through the case just above the aft closure, maybe half-way through the flight. Aerotech replaced the casing and reload, but not the scratch-built rocket. Last year, the motor failed almost immediately, and the burn through was along most of the length of the case. Again, a new reload and case, another destroyed rocket. Yes, I filed two MESS reports.

Both times, I prepared the reloads the night before the launch, since the big solid grain must be epoxied to the liner. I used Bob Smith 5 minute epoxy. I coated the outside of the grain completely with a thin layer of epoxy and then slid it into the liner so that the excess ends up on top where it is needed to inhibit the grain.

Anybody else have problems with this load?

Should I use West System Epoxy or Gorilla Glue instead of generic 5 minute?

Am I stupid to keep trying to fly this load???
 

75Grandville

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I have no experience with preparing or using this load; however, if you do choose to fly this, please make sure it's a "head's up" flight!
 

MikeyDSlagle

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I've see the load fly once at one of our launches. About 4 feet off the rail it pretty much disintegrated, rocket and all. Another flew on a different day and made it airborne a good ways before failing, wasn't there for that one, only saw pictures of the flight, and don't know any details. I don't know much about that sort of thing, so I guess I didn't help at all. Lol. Someone will surely chime in.
 

Wayco

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I have flown this load a couple of times, not realizing it takes a special endburn forward closure. Balsa Machining lists it like this:
(38mm Endburn-style fwd closure plugged threaded)

If you don't have that closure, don't build the motor without it. I'm bringing this load with the correct closure to Hellfire, planning on flying it in my Nuke Pro Max "Reduke", so named because this was the last time I flew this load without the correct closure:





Cost me a nice red Dr. Rockets casing and a few parts from LOC, but it's ready to go again. If you want to, stop by our site and we can talk about it. Can't miss the Arizona flag and tie-dyed streamer on our flagpole.
 

JWB

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I have launched my 38 Blackhawk twice this year on this load. Gorilla glue and lots of grease on the outside of the liner. The liner was toasted pretty good but the case was fine.
Wayne's picture makes me glad I had the correct forward closure.
 

Dugway

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Yes, I've been using (and destroying) the correct forward closure each time. I'd heard about using Gorilla glue on larger reloads and wondered if it might be appropriate here. May be less affected by the high temperature? I will be sure and use plenty of Super Lube on the outside of the liner. Wish me luck.
 

Mr G

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Had a successful launch of a LOC Vulcanite with a similar I49N a few months ago following the Aerotech instructions and with an end burn forward closure. 38/360 case cleaned up with no discoloration or damage. There are four I59WNs in my inventory so if there are issues, its good they come out here.

I was planning on launching a 4 lb 3" LOC Shadowhawk on an I59 next month. It will need to be calm, but if all goes well it should reach 3,700 feet. Of course, these end burners are plugged so electronics are required for deployment.
 

Dugway

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Well, I went ahead a mixed up a batch of West Systems with the slow hardener. Gloved up and slathered the sides of the grain with epoxy, inserted into the liner while holding the end over the epoxy cup to catch the excess. Made sure the exposed end was well covered with epoxy and set them both upside down to cure. I peeked in the aft end with a flashlight and made sure there was a nice seal of epoxy between the grain and liner with no possible gaps where flame could propagate. I don't know what else I can do. I'll follow up this post in a week or so with the results.
 

JDcluster

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I flew one back in June and had no issues. I glued the gains in with Bob Smith 30 min.
What kind of igniters are you guys using?
Did everyone use the end burner style forward closure as required?
Casing cleaned up normally.

JD
 

mpitfield

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There are four I59WNs in my inventory so if there are issues, its good they come out here.
Is this the same for all of the 38mm Warp-9 reloads?

I just checked my inventory as I recall buying some 38mm Warp-9s a couple of years ago and I have 2 G339N-P, 2 H999N-P and 2 I1299N-P. Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to launch one because of no local HP field and I cannot take them across the boarder.
 

Dugway

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Not all Warp-9 reloads need the upper grains bonded, just the ones with a solid upper and cored lower grain. I assume this is to keep the upper grain in place after the lower "kicker" grain has gotten the stack moving.

I have always used the supplied igniter, a First Fire I believe?

I don't see how you could NOT use the correct forward closure. The reload doesn't come with any delay or smoke element, do people really think that just leaving an empty void there would be OK???
 

dixontj93060

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I don't see how you could NOT use the correct forward closure. The reload doesn't come with any delay or smoke element, do people really think that just leaving an empty void there would be OK???
I leave the void there often when flying research loads and/or when I have no delay grain. Fill with a little grease, no problem.
 

Rocketjunkie

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I have flown 6 I59;s and 3 I49's all with no issues. I use a standard plugged forward closure with the delay well filled with epoxy. I do not glue the grain into the liner but I do make sure the forward end of the solid grain is well inhibited.
Latest flight, my 3" tube fin on an I59[YOUTUBE]N2DW9Z9Zd_o[/YOUTUBE]
 
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soopirV

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I have flown 6 I59;s and 3 I49's all with no issues. I use a standard plugged forward closure with the delay well filled with epoxy. I do not glue the grain into the liner but I do make sure the forward end of the solid grain is well inhibited.
Latest flight, my 3" tube fin on an I59[YOUTUBE]N2DW9Z9Zd_o[/YOUTUBE]
awesome flight- love the super long burn...haven't flown one personally, but totally get the attraction. Good luck, Dugway, can't wait to hear how it goes!
 

Reinhard

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I leave the void there often when flying research loads and/or when I have no delay grain. Fill with a little grease, no problem.
What geometries did you fly this way. BATES or endburners? How much is "a little grease"? Enough to cover the walls or enough to fill the void completely?

The reason for my questions is, that there is one scenario that I imagine might be problematic: If the pressure differential between the forward and rearward end of the grain is higher than the grain can handle, the grain might get extruded into the void, increasing the burn area significantly. In ATs endburning design, the forward end of the grain is always fully supported - either by a delay grain or the closure - so it looks like AT is concerned about this too.

Reinhard
 

dixontj93060

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What geometries did you fly this way. BATES or endburners? How much is "a little grease"? Enough to cover the walls or enough to fill the void completely?
Grease--just a blob on the fore face and around the walls. Flights have been with Bates and moonburners only.
 

crossfire

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Not to change the thread but has there been any problems with the DMS I65 motor? Just wondering how that motor has been working out?
 

pyrobob

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Not to change the thread but has there been any problems with the DMS I65 motor? Just wondering how that motor has been working out?
I've seen and sold many. No problems from my experience. In fact, I've been thinking about clustering 3 or 4 although I think that may require one unique rocket :):):).
 

cavecentral

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Not to change the thread but has there been any problems with the DMS I65 motor? Just wondering how that motor has been working out?
I flew one at LDRS held in NY - probably one of the earlier batches. Rocket went out of site (Loc 3" Hyperloc), showed in lost and found. No issue other than going too high. I have a second that I got in a trade. I65 and H45 are White lighting, not Warp9, so they are not end burners
 

Dugway

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I was only able to fly one of my two I59s, but the flight went off without a hitch. I believe the key is LOTS of grease on the liner. The instructions just mention lightly greasing to ease clean-up, but I slathered on the Super Lube. After the flight, I tried my usual trick of pushing the nozzle through the case to dump the liner and debris, but it wouldn't budge. Looking through the case is looked like the liner had turned to charcoal. I was a bit worried about the case at that point. By pulling the liner from both ends I was able to get it out in two pieces. It was badly melted and the center section was crumbly, but the liner was basically in tact. After cleaning, the case looked as good as new.

I'm guessing the extra thermal protection from the grease made the liner harder to remove, but may have saved the case. YMMV.
 

JDcluster

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The grease only needed for ease of installation.
It turns to thin liquid, once the motor ignites.
Apply epoxy to the top of the solid grain (forward end ) along with gluing the forward insulator in place (tricky but doable).

JD
 

Wayco

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I also flew the I59 on Friday, just pulled "Reduke" out of the truck and checked the motor. No issues with the casing, the liner was toasted pretty good though. A quick run through with a bottle brush and the inside is good. I usually grease the top of the endburn grain and the liner, and I remember that when I slid the liner/grains into the casing there was some Superlube that got scraped off as it slid in, so it was more than lightly applied.
Glad this load went well, 6795 ft. is respectable for a Nuke Pro Max. That's three out of four good flights!
Now I'm back to unloading the truck, we took 39 rockets and flew 30, not bad for three days of great flying!
 

stealth6

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Hmmmmm.
I've flown a couple I59's (and I49's) and never had any issues.
I did NOT glue any grains, I did use the proper forward closure, and as far as grease I used a "standard" amount which is to say just a bit but nothing major.
Each flight was just fine, although the burn times seemed shorted than what I was expecting.
Yes, the liners were pretty toasted, but no damage to casings or any problems.
My best flight was around 9200' with a kitbashed Blackhawk38.

ssix
 
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