AEROTECH G FORCE LAUNCH PIC and CRASH

[crazyed]

This is a pic of my Aerotech G FORCE launch on an Aerotech G64-7W. This rocket provided many perfect launches and was a lot of fun for my family. I had used the BP ejection charge for making some Motor starters previously and felt I could use Hogdon Pyrodex FFFG smokeless powder for a replacement. I have used Pyrodex for ejection charges many times before when flying Kosdon reloads. Well I didnt pack the powder as well as I knew I should and the charge did not blow the top section (rocket separates at mid section for deployment) . The charge did go off as we did see and hear it blow out the back. There has been some questions about ejection charges and Pyrodex around and even though it usually works, I trust the BP now more than ever. Launch pic and resulted crash (no deployment).
View attachment 250195View attachment 250196View attachment 250197View attachment 250272

 

[loopy]

Ouch...that hurts...

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Sorry about the crash! That's too bad!

I've heard of the cooling mesh in these rockets getting clogged over time and eventually causing weak deployments. Did you use the cooling mesh of leave it out?

I'm building a G-Force right now, and it seems like a pretty nice rocket. I'm leaving the mesh out. I'm trying to decide how to paint it, and I'm leaning toward a very simple white scheme that would be reminiscent of some kind of sounding rocket, sort of like yours. I'm thinking about rings in various places like what you have near the break. I'm not exactly sure what I want to do with the decal.

You can usually find these for around $60 to $65, which is not too bad, and they are super easy to build. Are you going to make another one or replace it with something else?

 

[tightwad]

Boy, that's sad. I have been using pyrodex for several years and have not had any failures to deploy. I always packed as tight as I can and contain it with lots of tape.

 

[crazyed]

Ouch...that hurts...

Yes.. Got that sinking feeling as we watched in scream in nose first..

 

[crazyed]

View attachment 250209

Sorry about the crash! That's too bad!

I've heard of the cooling mesh in these rockets getting clogged over time and eventually causing weak deployments. Did you use the cooling mesh of leave it out?

I'm building a G-Force right now, and it seems like a pretty nice rocket. I'm leaving the mesh out. I'm trying to decide how to paint it, and I'm leaning toward a very simple white scheme that would be reminiscent of some kind of sounding rocket, sort of like yours. I'm thinking about rings in various places like what you have near the break. I'm not exactly sure what I want to do with the decal.

You can usually find these for around $60 to $65, which is not too bad, and they are super easy to build. Are you going to make another one or replace it with something else?

Yes sir, The first thing I did was inspect that mesh -it was easy to get to considering the condition of the rocket,,lol. It seemed fine . It was the way I packed the pyrodex/loose. You now in back of your mind when something just isnt right when getting ready to launch. I had that feeling about the ejection charge but I launched it , And it came in ballistic. The pyrodex has never failed me before but I always Packed it tight and full. Not this time. It hurt a little more since I paid full retail $99.00.
It is a great kit and I plan on another real soon. but the $65.00 one Im sure you will get the paint right what ever you decide. The rocket is great on the G80 And G64-7W. It calls for the 4sec.delay but 5/6 seemed best for mine. I drilled a second or so off the 7sec delay.
There are so many great kits and manufacturers available-but the fin air foils on the aerotech kits and the fin lock system to me are great selling points. along with the ease of modification.
View attachment 250208

 

[crazyed]

Boy, that's sad. I have been using pyrodex for several years and have not had any failures to deploy. I always packed as tight as I can and contain it with lots of tape.

absolutely,, Im sure I didnt pack it right.Whats worse is I knew in the back of my mind it wasnt right and it cost me.View attachment 250210

 

[loopy]

Yes.. Got that sinking feeling as we watched in scream in nose first..

Yeah...been there...done that...at NSL...lol...Not a good feeling.

 

[crazyed]

I dont know what the heck we are smiling about in that pic ...lol

 

[TopRamen]

That's a Bummer. I lost my G-force to the Trees on its 5th Flight back in 2001.
Even with SU Motors, where there was no guess work involved, the Deployments always had me nervous, as the Rocket separates in the middle, and very slowly it seemed. The Chute would always deploy, and plenty high on G80s, but on G40s, it was kinda' scary.
I built mine stock, but if I built another I would likely make it to deploy from the Top with the Nose Cone, and use a Stuffer Tube to take up some of the volume.

 

[crazyed]

That's a Bummer. I lost my G-force to the Trees on its 5th Flight back in 2001.
Even with SU Motors, where there was no guess work involved, the Deployments always had me nervous, as the Rocket separates in the middle, and very slowly it seemed. The Chute would always deploy, and plenty high on G80s, but on G40s, it was kinda' scary.
I built mine stock, but if I built another I would likely make it to deploy from the Top with the Nose Cone, and use a Stuffer Tube to take up some of the volume.

LOL yes , I too remember some tense moments waiting for the deployment on the G FORCE. For me even though we had no previous problem, I think it was more the thought of larger rocket coming in with no recovery . The stuffer tube is a great idea. It would also allow for a bigger parachute if desired,the stock one is a bit small for me. I like a little slower recovery. *what delay did you prefer? On the G76 and G64 i used the 7sec with approx 1-2 secs drilled off, seemed a 5 or 6 sec delay was best for me and yes sir...there will be another G FORCE in my stash.!!!

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

That's a Bummer. I lost my G-force to the Trees on its 5th Flight back in 2001.
Even with SU Motors, where there was no guess work involved, the Deployments always had me nervous, as the Rocket separates in the middle, and very slowly it seemed. The Chute would always deploy, and plenty high on G80s, but on G40s, it was kinda' scary.
I built mine stock, but if I built another I would likely make it to deploy from the Top with the Nose Cone, and use a Stuffer Tube to take up some of the volume.

You probably remember, the way it is designed, the chute and other recovery gear goes inside the coupler mounted in the top portion. And then the coupler slides into the bottom portion, all the way down to the top of the motor mount. It seems like that puts the chute right on top of the end of the motor tube. I'm not using the cooling mesh, so i'll have a nomex blanket instead. When the ejection blows, it's going to shove the chute and pack it into the coupler. I'm visualizing this as being a very tight fit in the first place and then everything jamming into the coupler. I haven't assembled the recovery gear yet, so I won't worry about it yet, but this seems like it could be a source of problems.

 

[crazyed]

You probably remember, the way it is designed, the chute and other recovery gear goes inside the coupler mounted in the top portion. And then the coupler slides into the bottom portion, all the way down to the top of the motor mount. It seems like that puts the chute right on top of the end of the motor tube. I'm not using the cooling mesh, so i'll have a nomex blanket instead. When the ejection blows, it's going to shove the chute and pack it into the coupler. I'm visualizing this as being a very tight fit in the first place and then everything jamming into the coupler. I haven't assembled the recovery gear yet, so I won't worry about it yet, but this seems like it could be a source of problems.

Absolutely,,, My thought also the first time packing the chute during assembly ( a tight fit and it is yes) but works. I packed the chute in a way that as the shock cord pulled at the beginning of the separation it was pulling the chute out also. When that rocket separates/due to the size and weight of both sections/ its going to pull everything out and stretch that cord so you should be fine. Top Ramens idea of a stuffer tube and nose cone deployment sounds good or a possible shortening of the motor mount tube by a few inches since you are not using the mesh or engine block I think? But this may effect the CP. How much I dont know. More things to consider.

 

[terryg]

I seem to recall that besides having to tightly contain it, you have to use more of it to get the same effect as black power. I have been using the same can of black powder for years and local gun shops carry it if I need to get more in the future.

 

[Bat-mite]

Bummer.

 

[TopRamen]

You probably remember, the way it is designed, the chute and other recovery gear goes inside the coupler mounted in the top portion. And then the coupler slides into the bottom portion, all the way down to the top of the motor mount. It seems like that puts the chute right on top of the end of the motor tube. I'm not using the cooling mesh, so i'll have a nomex blanket instead. When the ejection blows, it's going to shove the chute and pack it into the coupler. I'm visualizing this as being a very tight fit in the first place and then everything jamming into the coupler. I haven't assembled the recovery gear yet, so I won't worry about it yet, but this seems like it could be a source of problems.

Great Point!!! I do remember it being very tight in there!
Mine was built Stock, and there was barely room for the Recovery Gear in there, you might have to modify it to fit your Nomex?

 

[TopRamen]

Absolutely,,, My thought also the first time packing the chute during assembly ( a tight fit and it is yes) but works. I packed the chute in a way that as the shock cord pulled at the beginning of the separation it was pulling the chute out also. When that rocket separates/due to the size and weight of both sections/ its going to pull everything out and stretch that cord so you should be fine. Top Ramens idea of a stuffer tube and nose cone deployment sounds good or a possible shortening of the motor mount tube by a few inches since you are not using the mesh or engine block I think? But this may effect the CP. How much I dont know. More things to consider.

Since you are going to build another one, I think there is a Gallery or a G-Force Thread somewhere around here.
Thirsty might like this too!

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...1)-Gallery&highlight=Aerotech+G-Force+Gallery

 

[cbrarick]

if you must use pyrodex, you need to pack it super tight! One of the groups I mentor has to use it, so we make squibs with the ignitor & pyrodex in the finger of a glove. We then wrap it super tight with electrical tape.

 

[The_Lone_Beagle]

View attachment 250209
It hurt a little more since I paid full retail $99.00.
It is a great kit and I plan on another real soon. but the $65.00 one
View attachment 250208

Well, if you act soon, the HobbyLinc $65 model is on sale for *only* $61-ish! I couldn't resist, so mine is on the way...I believe the weekly sale is over tomorrow early am.

Sorry about the crash! That's too bad!
I'm leaving the mesh out.
<snip>

That's interesting, I was going to keep the mesh in *and* use a nomex blanket...is that just redundant, or is that going to cause problems?

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Since you are going to build another one, I think there is a Gallery or a G-Force Thread somewhere around here.
Thirsty might like this too!

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...1)-Gallery&highlight=Aerotech+G-Force+Gallery

There are some great looking rockets in there! I still haven't decided how to paint mine yet. I've got it built and a coat of primer on it now, and I'll fly it in white primer this weekend. After that I'll have to come up with a design. I usually do not go with the recommended paint livery.

The kit went together really easy and very fast. I'm impressed with the quality of everything about the kit except for the Nose Cone. My nose cone is asymmetrical, and it's really obvious to me. It's not just a little bit off. You can tell that the two halves of the mold are not exactly the same shape. One side is so misshapen that the nose cone has an obvious step on one side from the BT to the NC, while the other side does not have this step. The plastic also seems very thin and very flexible. You can deform the plastic very easily by lightly squeezing it with your hand. One concern I have is that if I paint the NC, will the paint pop off if the nose cone gets squeezed and the plastic flexes? It seems like it might.

Aside from the nosecone, everything else seems like nice quality components for the price. The Loc-n-fin or whatever it is called worked really well. It seems like one of the most robust rockets I have every had.

 

[SCrocketfan]

There are some great looking rockets in there! I still haven't decided how to paint mine yet. I've got it built and a coat of primer on it now, and I'll fly it in white primer this weekend. After that I'll have to come up with a design. I usually do not go with the recommended paint livery.

The kit went together really easy and very fast. I'm impressed with the quality of everything about the kit except for the Nose Cone. My nose cone is asymmetrical, and it's really obvious to me. It's not just a little bit off. You can tell that the two halves of the mold are not exactly the same shape. One side is so misshapen that the nose cone has an obvious step on one side from the BT to the NC, while the other side does not have this step. The plastic also seems very thin and very flexible. You can deform the plastic very easily by lightly squeezing it with your hand. One concern I have is that if I paint the NC, will the paint pop off if the nose cone gets squeezed and the plastic flexes? It seems like it might.

Aside from the nosecone, everything else seems like nice quality components for the price. The Loc-n-fin or whatever it is called worked really well. It seems like one of the most robust rockets I have every had.

The NC on mine is also warped and it will fly fine, although you could definitely swap in a LOC or Madcow cone if you wanted, they will fit. And yes, it does lose paint a bit more than normal cones due to the plastic deforming.

 

[watermelonman]

I have never had a problem with cooling mesh across numerous Aerotech builds, but I converted to nomex regardless. I love nomex!

 

[crazyed]

I have never had a problem with cooling mesh across numerous Aerotech builds, but I converted to nomex regardless. I love nomex!

Does Nomex save all those chard shock cords/lines and little burn marks on the chute? And whats the price to protect a chute? Weight? Where?

 

[BayouRat]

Sorry for your loss.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

That's interesting, I was going to keep the mesh in *and* use a nomex blanket...is that just redundant, or is that going to cause problems?

I don't think that adding a nomex in addition to the mesh will create any new problems that aren't due to the mesh alone in the first place. I've heard that some people have had issues with the mesh getting clogged with residue over time and eventually causing weak deployments. I'm leaving it out partly for that reason and partly because I want the option to put longer motors in the motor tube --- I also left out the motor block ring and the clip retainer for the same reason, and replaced them with an Estes 29mm retainer.

I got a chance to put together the recover gear today. I used the stock elastic shock cord, cut into two unequal pieces with loops tied at both ends of both pieces. I'm using 3 quick links --- one to attach the long piece of shock cord to the bottom part of the rocket, one to attach the short piece to the top part, and one to attach both pieces of shock cord to the parachute, which is attached to a swivel. I might eventually swap out the elastic cord for something more permanent. I have a 9" square of nomex, but I think a 12" would be better. I may need to buy one from the launch vendor. I folded the chute, wrapped it in the nomex very tightly, gathered the cord in a Z-fold, and it all slid into the coupler very well. It didn't seem overly tight, so I think it is going to work just fine, even if I go to a 12" nomex.

 

[crazyed]

Well, if you act soon, the HobbyLinc $65 model is on sale for *only* $61-ish! I couldn't resist, so mine is on the way...I believe the weekly sale is over tomorrow early am.



That's interesting, I was going to keep the mesh in *and* use a nomex blanket...is that just redundant, or is that going to cause problems?

Great price but Im Christmas poor today lol. But thanks for the heads up. And redundant is good. IMO the mesh helps keep the hot burning gases out of the airframe, and with nomex chute protection it would be that much better. But the mesh keeps those hot gases and material in the mmt. heat absorbed by the mesh, the mesh also collects some debris.possibly clogging the ejection air flow.

 

[crazyed]

Mr. Barbarian
sounds like you got that figured out pretty well. The shock cord on my GForce did tangle alot and twist up. What you are describing there should fix that and if you dont mind i will say i would use those techniques on my future build. Also the Nomex is sounding good. . It seems your G FORCE will be quite a rocket. Share some pics if you dont mind of the build and launch when the time comes as Im sure you will. One thought I had for my next G FORCE was a boat tail for performance and some means of protecting the bottom airframe as it did tend to get some damage.

 

[watermelonman]

Does Nomex save all those chard shock cords/lines and little burn marks on the chute? And whats the price to protect a chute? Weight? Where?

Well I have taken to using kevlar or steel wire for the portion of line below the nomex. The protector itself works great, though, and only costs a couple bucks each in the smaller sizes. They do a great job, too, though one must be mindful of the folding and placement. Web search the burrito fold! I will also say that before returning to the hobby, I used disposable wadding, and this is an immense improvement.

The issue with Aerotech mesh is clogging, especially with all those red caps firing up into it. Be vigilant about removing caps and periodically cleaning the mesh, and it should work great.

 

[crazyed]

Well I have taken to using kevlar or steel wire for the portion of line below the nomex. The protector itself works great, though, and only costs a couple bucks each in the smaller sizes. They do a great job, too, though one must be mindful of the folding and placement. Web search the burrito fold! I will also say that before returning to the hobby, I used disposable wadding, and this is an immense improvement.

The issue with Aerotech mesh is clogging, especially with all those red caps firing up into it. Be vigilant about removing caps and periodically cleaning the mesh, and it should work great.

Kevlar and steel wire--- Great Idea!!!
And I was wondering where those red caps were going????LOL Thats funny right there,

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I flew the mighty G-Force rocket yesterday. It flies great! I am going to really enjoy this rocket.

I flew it once on a single-use G75-4M --- cool sparky G motor. I'm getting more of those! This was a cub launch, so there were lots of rockets going up and plenty coming down on chutes at any time. On my flight, the G-Force headed straight for another rocket that was coming down on it's chute! Mine deployed right next to the other! They were both swinging a lot on very long shock cords, and there were a few times they looked like they might get entangled. Then both of them came down right on top of the line of people waiting to check in at the RSO table. So it seems like the G-Force is a good surface-to-air missile, but it is also effective against ground targets.

The second flight was on a G77-4R. That was a nice flight too on a red motor. No midair collisions or heads-up landings.

I'm looking forward to trying even more variety of single-use G motors. There are a lot of choices. The 4-second delays seem a bit short to me, but 7 seconds seems too long. If sticking with single-use with set delays, what do people generally use? 4 seconds or 7?