AeroTech Challenges CTI 10-Second Assembly Claim

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Garoq

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AeroTech/RCS will give a $500 AeroTech gift certificate to the first private individual who produces a video proving CTI's claim that a CTI 29 or 38mm motor can be assembled in 10 seconds or less.

https://www.rocketryplanet.com/forums/showpost.php?p=126719&postcount=1

Video must show assembly from start to finish in real time including unpackaging the load, setting the reload's time delay to 10 seconds with the ProDat delay adjustment tool, installing the completed load in the casing and inserting and securing the igniter to the motor.

CTI owners, employees and dealers are not eligible.
 

mikec

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AeroTech/RCS will give a $500 AeroTech gift certificate to the first private individual who produces a video proving CTI's claim that a CTI 29 or 38mm motor can be assembled in 10 seconds or less.
I'm a big fan of both AT and CTI, I've flown them both, and I'm glad they're both around. I think everyone would acknowledge that you don't usually take only 10 seconds to put a CTI reload together. I don't think I could under any circumstances if I had to change the delay. But it's unquestionably a lot less work than an AT reload.
 

tquigg

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Although I haven't timed myself, I think the fastest I've ever "rolled" a CTI motor was about 3-4 minutes. I don't install the igniter in the motor until the rocket's on the pad however.
 

nh4clo4

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I don't understand what Aerotech has to gain by doing this. It might not be exactly 10 seconds, but the CTI motors are certainly a lot faster to assemble than the Aerotech reloads.

Just my :2:.
 

tquigg

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I don't understand what Aerotech has to gain by doing this. It might not be exactly 10 seconds, but the CTI motors are certainly a lot faster to assemble than the Aerotech reloads.

Just my :2:.
Truth in advertising :confused:
 

Garoq

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I don't understand what Aerotech has to gain by doing this. It might not be exactly 10 seconds, but the CTI motors are certainly a lot faster to assemble than the Aerotech reloads.

Just my :2:.
They made a fairly outrageous claim and nobody challenged it.

We shall see what "a lot faster" really is.
 

Bazookadale

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They made a fairly outrageous claim and nobody challenged it.

We shall see what "a lot faster" really is.
Gary I hope this is meant in fun and you get some good advertising from it. But as someone who used to be in sales I see more negatives than positives to this.
 

Garoq

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Gary I hope this is meant in fun and you get some good advertising from it. But as someone who used to be in sales I see more negatives than positives to this.
Oh, it's all in fun. I'm really looking forward to awarding the "fastest AeroTech reload assembly video" prize at LDRS.
 
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Jeroen_at_CTI

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By 10 seconds I meant the loading of the reload kit into the motor. Here is a demonstration of what I had in mind:

[YOUTUBE]NFdfgcPP2pQ[/YOUTUBE]

Obviously setting the delay and or installing the igniter takes more time. Cleanup is the above video in reverse - you don't have to put it back in the anti-static bag though :) No further cleaning required.

Jeroen
 
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shreadvector

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By 10 seconds I meant the loading of the reload kit into the motor. Here is a demonstration of what I had in mind.

[youtube]NFdfgcPP2pQ[/youtube]

Obviously setting the delay and or installing the igniter takes more time. Cleanup is the video in reverse - you don't have to put it back in the anti-static bag though :)

Jeroen

No multiple 30 gram U.S.-mailable propellant segments?

And how many G motors are 62.5 grams or less, so they can be "Model Rocket Motors"?

eh? :D
 

Garoq

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By 10 seconds I meant the loading of the reload kit into the motor. Obviously setting the delay and or installing the igniter takes more time.Jeroen
That's not what was claimed. The motor in the video would not be capable of proper operation without further assembly. We might as well show loading the grains in the case and screwing the ends on.
 
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Jeroen_at_CTI

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No multiple 30 gram U.S.-mailable propellant segments?
And how many G motors are 62.5 grams or less, so they can be "Model Rocket Motors"?
D
We have multiple shipping configurations: pre-installed grains or not. Still tbd. See our website for more details about the different motors and the propellant weights.

Jeroen
 

JoeG

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I remember loading my first Pro 38 motor and looking around wondering what it was I was forgetting. They are easier and faster to assemble.

That being said, I like building model airplanes from scratch even though almost every one imaginable is available in an Almost Ready to Fly (ARF) version. Just add your motor and radio and go fly. Are ARF's better? Depends on what you are looking for. I consider assembling the motor as much a part of the hobby as assembling the rockets.

I enjoy building the motors. I don't enjoy cleaning the cases but I don't particularly enjoy cleaning the rockets or packing the truck or the drive home but these are also part of the hobby experience.

I do think 10 seconds is probably not a typical assembly time any more than a minute and a half is a typical time for an Aerotech reload.

I've spent weeks or sometimes months (years?) building a rocket. If it takes a few minutes to assemble the motor I'm really OK with that.

I spend way more time driving to and from launches than I do assembling motors. That doesn't mean I should just launch from my back yard.

Just adding my perspective. Take it for what it is worth....which, I'm sure, is relative. :)
 

Garoq

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By 10 seconds I meant the loading of the reload kit into the motor. Here is a demonstration of what I had in mind:

Obviously setting the delay and or installing the igniter takes more time. Cleanup is the above video in reverse - you don't have to put it back in the anti-static bag though :) No further cleaning required.

Jeroen
Here's the same thing with an AeroTech F32T single-use. About the same price as your 'F' reload, same or more power, no hardware to buy, no cleanup, fits 24 & 29mm motor mounts, California approved, NAR certified, USPS mailable, no hazmat fee for shipping. ;)

[YOUTUBE]yhxBDbXkCow[/YOUTUBE]
 

Locum51

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Here's the same thing with an AeroTech F32T single-use. About the same price as your 'F' reload, same or more power, no hardware to buy, no cleanup, fits 24 & 29mm motor mounts, California approved, NAR certified, USPS mailable, no hazmat fee for shipping. ;)

[YOUTUBE]yhxBDbXkCow[/YOUTUBE]
I think what was trying to be said by CTI is the ease of motor assembly. What exactly are you trying to get out of this claim challenge?
 

Garoq

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I remember loading my first Pro 38 motor and looking around wondering what it was I was forgetting. They are easier and faster to assemble.

That being said, I like building model airplanes from scratch even though almost every one imaginable is available in an Almost Ready to Fly (ARF) version. Just add your motor and radio and go fly. Are ARF's better? Depends on what you are looking for. I consider assembling the motor as much a part of the hobby as assembling the rockets.

I enjoy building the motors. I don't enjoy cleaning the cases but I don't particularly enjoy cleaning the rockets or packing the truck or the drive home but these are also part of the hobby experience.

I do think 10 seconds is probably not a typical assembly time any more than a minute and a half is a typical time for an Aerotech reload.

I've spent weeks or sometimes months (years?) building a rocket. If it takes a few minutes to assemble the motor I'm really OK with that.

I spend way more time driving to and from launches than I do assembling motors. That doesn't mean I should just launch from my back yard.

Just adding my perspective. Take it for what it is worth....which, I'm sure, is relative. :)
Joe, this is all in the spirit of "good, clean competition"...sometimes I think those days are long gone...the days when Vern Estes and Lee Piester exchanged catalogs and "crying towels".

I sincerely hope this thread doesn't degrade into personal attacks.
 
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Garoq

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I think what was trying to be said by CTI is the ease of motor assembly. What exactly are you trying to get out of this claim challenge?
A fair comparison.
 

jdbectec

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Here's the same thing with an AeroTech F32T single-use. About the same price as your 'F' reload, same or more power, no hardware to buy, no cleanup, fits 24 & 29mm motor mounts, California approved, NAR certified, USPS mailable, no hazmat fee for shipping. ;)

[YOUTUBE]yhxBDbXkCow[/YOUTUBE]
:roll::roll: No offense to anyone, especially the CTI people, but I did get a good laugh out of that.
 

ttabbal

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As a just for fun data point, it takes me longer than 10 seconds to remove the reload from the packaging.. :)

I fly CTI and AT, good stuff from both companies. I also fly hybrids, so I have to be ok with building a motor, even the Skyrippers are more complex to build and fly than either CTI or AT. :D

I would love to see someone actually meet this challenge though, and the winner of the AT speed build challenge. It's got to be something like those guys that can assemble a rifle in less than a minute, blindfolded. :)
 

JoeG

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Joe, this is all in the spirit of "good, clean competition"...sometimes I think those days are long gone...the days when Vern Estes and Lee Piester exchanged catalogs and "crying towels".

I sincerely hope this thread doesn't degrade into personal attacks...I've already been called an a**hole by Jeroen's boss as a result of this discussion.
Understood and agree. I just think that this thread is going on the assumption that the faster....the better. Not so for me. I'm past my "hurry up and get it done" stage and am in my "stop and smell the roses" stage.

Off the pad I want fast, loud, smoke and fire. Everywhere else.......not so much!!

:):):):)
 

n3tjm

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Maybe a better challenge is with delay accuracy...

CTI loads are faster to load than any reload you can offer. Plu they are less prone to user failure, and get the delays I want.

It really sucks when I take a G64-10W, follow your directions to drill it down to 4 seconds, and still end up with a 10 second delay. Or when I put a G53-5FJ in a rocket, with no mods to the motor, and get a G53-1FJ. Also got a couple G71-1R's too.

Another thing worth mentioning, I never yet seen a CTI motor come with missing or incorrect parts. I seen many reloads (mine or someone asking me for help) with those problems, and personally witnessed a couple catos when I took a look at the remains and said theres your problem, wrong nozzle.
 

Garoq

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Maybe a better challenge is with delay accuracy...

CTI loads are faster to load than any reload you can offer. Plu they are less prone to user failure, and get the delays I want.

It really sucks when I take a G64-10W, follow your directions to drill it down to 4 seconds, and still end up with a 10 second delay. Or when I put a G53-5FJ in a rocket, with no mods to the motor, and get a G53-1FJ. Also got a couple G71-1R's too.

Another thing worth mentioning, I never yet seen a CTI motor come with missing or incorrect parts. I seen many reloads (mine or someone asking me for help) with those problems, and personally witnessed a couple catos when I took a look at the remains and said theres your problem, wrong nozzle.
Every manufacturer's products have issues from time to time...if you browse the forums you will see that they are certainly not limited to AeroTech. I apologize for any problems you have had with ours.

That said, we strive to make the best motors out there and to keep improving, and there are thousands of customers that are quite happy with AeroTech products.
 

nh4clo4

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Here's the same thing with an AeroTech F32T single-use. About the same price as your 'F' reload, same or more power, no hardware to buy, no cleanup, fits 24 & 29mm motor mounts, California approved, NAR certified, USPS mailable, no hazmat fee for shipping. ;)

[YOUTUBE]yhxBDbXkCow[/YOUTUBE]
I missed the part where you adjust the delay. ;)
 

Garoq

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Understood and agree. I just think that this thread is going on the assumption that the faster....the better. Not so for me. I'm past my "hurry up and get it done" stage and am in my "stop and smell the roses" stage.

Off the pad I want fast, loud, smoke and fire. Everywhere else.......not so much!!

:):):):)
Well I agree with you. The point of the challenges is not to show that AeroTech motors assemble as fast as CTI, we all know that's not the case, just that there's not that great of a difference. I personally don't think it matters much that a motor takes 30 seconds or three minutes to assemble. Do people buy kits based on whether one takes 5 or 10 minutes longer to build than another? Others may disagree.

Someone once said "the journey is more important than the destination", or something like that?
 

Bill P

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You can't open a CTI bag in 10 seconds... the hardest part of assembling a Pro38.
 
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