Advice About Disposable Wadding Alternatives in LPRs

[beeblebrox]

Dog barf is biodegradable. It’s totally fine to use.

I know that, but it does fluff out and not make a good seal, and golf courses don't want that stuff coming down that's all...hence the piston. We use dog barf for all the kids rockets at MDRA no problem with that stuff being used...People used to use fiberglass insulation, that is not bio-degradable...

 

[DAllen]

Either you’re not using enough DB or get yourself some quality nomex.

 

[BigMacDaddy]

How do the bigger sheets of wadding from Estes compare to the normal stuff in the BP Motor packs? I bought a random over-priced lot of rockets and it came with a bunch of the wadding (picture below). Seems a bit thicker and sheets are definitely larger. I have been using a mix of dog barf and the little wadding sheets recently...

 

[DigBaddy]

I've had good success with a layer cake approach on some larger rockets. Square of wadding, barf, wadding, barf, wadding...

 

[lakeroadster]

How do the bigger sheets of wadding from Estes compare to the normal stuff in the BP Motor packs? I bought a random over-priced lot of rockets and it came with a bunch of the wadding (picture below). Seems a bit thicker and sheets are definitely larger. I have been using a mix of dog barf and the little wadding sheets recently...

View attachment 517609

Maybe do a test and see how flammable that is? Does it say what it's made out of?

 

[rharshberger]

I've had good success with a layer cake approach on some larger rockets. Square of wadding, barf, wadding, barf, wadding...

I do a similar technique, a single sheet of Estes or Quest wadding formed into a cup shape then that is filled with dogbarf and the whole thing pushed into the airframe with a dowel. Many time the wadding sheet is easily recovered and reused.

 

[Daddyisabar]

How do the bigger sheets of wadding from Estes compare to the normal stuff in the BP Motor packs? I bought a random over-priced lot of rockets and it came with a bunch of the wadding (picture below). Seems a bit thicker and sheets are definitely larger. I have been using a mix of dog barf and the little wadding sheets recently...

View attachment 517609

I have found the quality of Estes wadding has varied over time and suppliers. From the nice old stuff pictured above to some newer stuff that was horrible, TP like that would burn on the way down or on a test. Have not purchased the stuff in years. Dog barf, deco puffs and wilted lettuce rule. Real envy of the rich guys with their fancy pants nomex blankies, sophisticated baffles, piston CO2 ejection, or awesome helicopter recovery.

I do have a few sheets from my very first wadding pack back in '74 that I keep in my case for good luck and to appease the rocket gods.

 

[bjphoenix]

I was cutting up a paper towel today to see how easily it could be made into a chute protector and it seemed like it would work pretty well. I always thought the weak point in these was at the 4 spots on the bottom where the slots end and there is no overlap. Originally I thought the thing to do would be to use 2 of the protectors stacked with one of them rotated 45 degrees so there would be double layers, but messing with one today I thought it would work pretty well just to lay one square of wadding on top of the chute protector before folding it. Now, how easy is it to make a piece of paper towel fire resistant? and is homemade treatment as effective as the wadding that you buy?

 

[Jerry F.]

One of the guys in my area makes a homemade fire retardant of some sort, applies it to a piece of used denim...its capable of withstanding a sustained blast from a blow torch...so it should be possible to do something similar...

 

[rharshberger]

One of the guys in my area makes a homemade fire retardant of some sort, applies it to a piece of used denim...its capable of withstanding a sustained blast from a blow torch...so it should be possible to do something similar...

Probably Borax and Boric acid (roach killer), dissolved in boiling water to get a high saturation solution, the denim is then soaked in the solution, then allowed to air dry. Its a really common, easy to make, and it works.

 

[mh9162013]

Now, how easy is it to make a piece of paper towel fire resistant? and is homemade treatment as effective as the wadding that you buy?

From my research online, dissolving baking soda in water, then soaking a peice of paper towel in the solution and letting it air dry seems to work well as disposable wadding. But it's an ongoing cost and takes time to make. The only advantage I see it having over dog barf is that it's not as messy (to use). But it still poses the potential problem of being litter and is an ongoing cost. Whatever works for you, though.

 

[Sooner Boomer]

One of the guys in my area makes a homemade fire retardant of some sort, applies it to a piece of used denim...its capable of withstanding a sustained blast from a blow torch...so it should be possible to do something similar...

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/use-of-denim-in-recovery-protectors.168397/post-2180879

 

[prfesser]

View attachment 517383
I'm coo-coo for Decopuffs! Same thing as Quest wadding only in many colors. 300 sheets lasts long time for LPR. Bulk packs for use on parade floats.

This is an outstanding idea! I've never heard of this stuff but it must be a stouter tissue than boric acid/borax soaked toilet paper, since it's used to make floats. Neater to use than dog barf. Believe I'll go buy a few dozen packs for our prefecture.

Best -- Terry

 

[Lee]

They dont last forever, most rockets however dont survive long enough for them to wear out. Just like a nomex a baffle is damaged a small amount every time the ejection charge goes off, eventually nomex's wear out/burn through, eventually baffles wear out too.

A coat of fire retardant paint should add some lifespan?

 

[bjphoenix]

Someone brought up the teflon tape pompoms but these aren't large enough for my usual BT60 diameter rockets. Then I had the idea that I could build a pompom out of treated crepe paper streamer material. I'm going to try it when I get more interest. I think I could build one and then trim it down until it fits just right.

 

[Sooner Boomer]

Someone brought up the teflon tape pompoms but these aren't large enough for my usual BT60 diameter rockets. Then I had the idea that I could build a pompom out of treated crepe paper streamer material. I'm going to try it when I get more interest. I think I could build one and then trim it down until it fits just right.

If you build one from crepe paper, make it easily replacable. "flameproof" crepe paper will not continue burning (support combustion), but it *will* scorch if exposed to ejection charges.

 

[bjphoenix]

Here is my first pompon. It has 2 launches on it in BT60 rockets and seemed to work well. This is 4 strips of streamer material, 12" long each. I stacked them, tied a piece of elastic around the middle, and then crumpled them to make them puff up more in the tube. I tied a loop in the elastic to attach to the shock cord. I typically use shock cords with swivels each end so when I prep the rocket I run the shock cord through the loop. I move the shock cords and this protector from rocket to rocket.

 

[mh9162013]

Update:

I built a BT-50 rocket with a homemade baffle using the "three half-moon" design that's similar to what's sold by Apogee. I made it with a bamboo skewer, cardboard and JB weld. It worked perfectly in the one test I ran with it. I'll do more testing to confirm it's longevity. I put 1 piece of disposable wadding (Estes) right after the baffle to see what it would look like and it looked like this:



So I'll be using this with a piece of reusable wadding, probably made out of denim.

Why denim? Well, I also tested 3x3 inch Dino Chutes reusable wadding in a different rocket, but after 3-4 launches (A type BP motors), it had a small hole. After 8 launches, it had 2 holes, one of them being large enough to render the reusable wadding almost useless. So if commercial reusable wadding will only last a handful of launches, I'll make my own (for free) that'll last about the same amount of time.

But what do I do for rockets that can't use baffles? Still working on that challenge.

 

[Jerry F.]

Rocketarium makes ejection baffles for body tubes 20 through 80...as does Apogee...

 

[bjphoenix]

In post 137 you can see my original crepe paper pompom. I've used it for about a dozen flights and it has worked perfectly. I use it for BT55 and BT60 size rockets. At the last launch I couldn't find it so I went back to normal wadding. I was going to build a new one today to use tomorrow and I found the old one in the bottom of my range box. I made a new one anyway. You can see the condition of the old one after about a dozen launches. It's still usable but won't last forever. For 4' of crepe paper it's pretty cheap for a dozen or more launches, and the benefit for me is that it works well and is very quick and easy to use. I cut 4 strips of paper about 12" long each, fold a few times in the middle and tie elastic around them. There is a loop in the elastic that I run the shock cord through. My shock cord has snap swivels on it so I can move the shock cord and pompom from rocket to rocket.

 

[DaHabes]

Rocketarium makes ejection baffles for body tubes 20 through 80...as does Apogee...

So does Qualmann

 

[MidOH]

On a small rocket, crepe paper like above is great. Mach1 includes a little blanket with their LPR's that works fine.

On Bt60-80's, I like to use two barriers. Usually a baffle or lettuce, and a small blanket under or around the chute only.

3-4" mpr, lettuce and a small blanket around the chute.

4" hpr, planning on two blankets. Small one tucked in over the motor tube. Large one to burrito the chute and JLCR.

 

[cwbullet]

Two words: Dog Barf.

Use cellulose insulation. It will rapidly degrade.

 

[mh9162013]

Qualmann doesn't make baffles for BT-20 rockets (if they do, please send me a link, as I didn't see it on their site). The Rocketarium BT-20 baffles are HEAVY.

 

[SolarYellow]

Just make one out of the yellow tube, like another poster has a thread about. Use 1/16 bass.

 

[shockie]

I'm working on my next LPR project. It'll probably have a BT-20 or BT-50 body diameter, or maybe a combination of both with a BT-20 to BT-50 transition. I also want to avoid using disposable wadding. I dislike the idea of potential "litter" when I can't recover all the pieces used during a launch and I dislike even more the fact that I have to spend money on disposable wadding.

So it looks like I have two alternatives: resusable wadding (like Dinochutes 3x3 chute protector) or an ejection charge baffle. And now I have a few questions about these. Please note these questions are asked within the LPR context and with the use of a plastic or nylon parachute (12" or so) recovery system.

1. If using reusable wadding, instead of threading the shock cord through a slit in the corner of the wadding, could I use a snap swivel or small metal keyring loop to attach the protector to the shock cord, but still allow it to slide up and down the shock cord? I figure this would make it much easier to remove the reusable wadding for cleaning and transfer to another LPR rocket.

2. Will a 3x3 Dinochutes reusable chute protector work in a BT-20 model rocket? I wonder if it'll be too bulky and my only option is the an ejection charge baffle.

3. Does anyone believe the baffle or reusable wadding has an inherent advantage over the other when installed in a BT-50 or BT-20 main body tube? If so, why?

I've done some research on both, and it seems like no system is perfect in terms of fully protecting the parachute and payload (like an altimeter). I'm trying to decide which is better for me and if using both is also a viable option (yes, I know there'll be a weight penalty, but performance is a tertiary consideration in this rocket's design).

Thanks ahead for all your advice.

you might take a look at the thin-mil nylon chutes that ASP Rocketry sells. They will fit well in bt-20 to bt-50 size body tubes. They have 9 to 18".

 

[BABAR]

If your concerns are cost and cosmetic effect on field, hard to beat cellulose blow in insulation like @cwbullet said.

25 lbs for $17 plus tax (i looked at free delivery, that’s only if you order 4 which would be kind of ridiculous) for a low power flyer probably more than you will use in a lifetime. It’s so light and small and biodegradable that nobody really cares about the effect on the field.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Greenfi...or-Spray-Applied-Insulation-INSSANC/311574454

 

[BABAR]

Oops, cheaper here. $15 plus tax

https://www.lowes.com/pd/US-Greenfi...-Blown-In-Insulation-Sound-Barrier/5001939515

 

[DigBaddy]

Check large home improvement stores for beat-up bales to be cleared out. I think I got mine for $7.

 

[Kabulrocks]

This is an interesting thread to a returning rocket guy like me. I’m pretty sure as a kid I used cotton balls in my Alpha-size rockets. I don’t recall what I used in my Big Bertha-size rockets, but I do believe it was Estes recovery wadding.