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#### Peter Alway

##### Well-Known Member
I was referred to The Rocketry Forum about Sandman's Little Joe II kit, and looking at his progress reports got me geeked up to finish a project that has been languishing for a year--my 1/195 scale Saturn V. Today, I revised some parts spec drawings for BMS. I changed the model from the Apollo 8-14 version to the Apollo 15-17 version. The change means I removed four Ullage Rockets from the S-IC/S-II interstage. That change suddenly simplified masking. I'll be sending those drawings off the BMS this week, and hopefully I can get a final prototype built. Then comes a prototype complete kit, and I think I'll really have it done by NARAM.

#### CTimm

##### Well-Known Member
Pictures! Pictures! Pictures!

This would be a good time to try out that digital camera.

CTimm

#### sandman

##### Well-Known Member
Go, Peter, go...go, Peter, go...go, Peter, go!

Sandman

#### Silverleaf

##### Well-Known Member
Wheww-hoo !

Maybe in some small way I helped to navigate Mr. Alway here, by posting my mini-review over at Scaleroc, in any case, this is bosanova news. The one guy whom I idolize in the world of Model Rocketry has joined the community. Can hardly wait to some pics Peter.

Best of luck with this project. 8)

#### Gus

##### Well-Known Member
An affordable, flyable, Saturn V, designed by Peter Alway?

Hmmm, I wonder if there will be much of a market for that.

#### Peter Alway

##### Well-Known Member
<i>An affordable, flyable, Saturn V, designed by Peter Alway?

Hmmm, I wonder if there will be much of a market for that.</i>

The open question is the "affordable" part. Bill at BMS had not priced the thing out yet. I'm hoping we can do it for under $50, but there's no telling. At least I know where to shave$4 if I have to--The nozzles are a mix of a wood turning and a paper shroud, and if I have to, I can replace the turnings with another paper shroud. But I think it would make construction harder and the final model less convincing.

#### Peter Alway

##### Well-Known Member
Here is a little sketch from the instructions that should suggest a lot if you think about it for a minute.

#### SecretSquirrel

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Peter Alway
<i>An affordable, flyable, Saturn V, designed by Peter Alway?

Hmmm, I wonder if there will be much of a market for that.</i>

The open question is the "affordable" part. Bill at BMS had not priced the thing out yet. I'm hoping we can do it for under $50, but there's no telling. At least I know where to shave$4 if I have to--The nozzles are a mix of a wood turning and a paper shroud, and if I have to, I can replace the turnings with another paper shroud. But I think it would make construction harder and the final model less convincing.

#### CTimm

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by SecretSquirrel
Put me down for one! I'll even opt for the extra $4. If I may interject here... Somehow, I don't feel that it will be necessary to "pre-order" or even to "pre-pay" to get ahold of one. If/when they are ready, you're probably gonna get them directly from BMS or from Peter. Quantities not limited. Buy 'em & build 'em. They'll make more when needed. Until then, drool over the reality of holding in your hands a highly detailed LPR model that is VERY LITE!!!! Rumour has it that it should fly/perform like a Big Bertha. Slow enough liftoff for a visually appealing flight. And the instructions have been taste-tested. That's what Freida and Rudy told me. CTimm #### SecretSquirrel ##### Well-Known Member I'm not pre-ordering, I'm just letting him know that I would buy one #### Peter Alway ##### Well-Known Member Yes, the supplies will not b limited--Bill at BMS charges what he needs to charge to make a living, so there are no limited runs--just limited demand if the price is high. The model is comparable in weight to a Big Bertha, at least if yo build light. I recall something like 4 oz with noseweight (I forget if that includes the engine. The first prototype flies great on a B6-4 or B4-4, really highon a C6-5, and kind of hairy on an A8-3. A heavier build might want a B6-2 or C6-3. Diameter is 2.04", the same as the current Estes Mercury-Redstone, but shorter and lighter. I expect the second prototype to be a little heavier--I will use gloss paint--just to confirm that the nose weight and engine choices are adequate. Fun bonus of doing Apollos 15-17: The first two stages are the same as for Skylab, so I am considering designing a Skylab alternative nose. But I gotta get the Apollo-Satrn V done first, as it's already a year overdue. I will mke loud noises when the kit is out. I doubt it will be done by LDRS in July, but I really want it done by NARAM in August. Knowing how things go, I would expect the first kits to appear at NARAM and mail order to start once I recover from the trip. I may take advace orders after I know the price, but keep in mind that "under$50" is my goal, and not a promise. It will cost what it costs, and if it has to be ridiculously overpiced, we'll offer it at whatever we have to, and just not sell many.

Yes, a Vostok is in my head. One with lots of compromises--think the old Estes Vostok but with rolled paper boosters. At least it should be resonably cheap. Maybe by NARAM 2005.

#### sandman

##### Well-Known Member
Peter,

I'm willing to wait...and to pay.

I won't nag you.

sandman

#### Peter Alway

##### Well-Known Member
I've emailed the revised specs for some new parts to Bill at BMS. In the mean time, I've been working on instructions. Specifically the masking instructions for the Roll Patterns. I'll attach a drawing I did yesterday.

#### Gus

##### Well-Known Member
Peter,

Very nice pic of the transition section, but it brings up a question (possibly more appropriate to another thread). How do you mask a good horizontal line on transitions? Mine always seem to wander, even if I use pinstriping tape.

#### sandman

##### Well-Known Member
Gus,

Cheat! Use a printed shroud and stick it on.

Any ideas on how to do that???

sandman

#### Fore Check

##### Well-Known Member

I suppose you could print a shroud with VCP and use it in the masking process, but I have had *terrible* results using paper for masking (it boogers up the finish on the paint being masked EVERY time!)

Hmmm.......

#### vjp

##### Well-Known Member
Gus/ForeCheck....

Use a block of wood to support a pencil at the appropriate height, and rotate the transition pressing lightly against the transition to mark your layout line. Use this line as your masking guide.

If you pre-cut masking tape with the appropriate radius, using a compass and x-acto blade, it makes masking the layout line a lot easier. You can use VCP to help in this.

#### Peter Alway

##### Well-Known Member
I am thinking of a cut-out shroud template that you would use to guide a pencil to mark the line, then put scotch tape in place and cut it along the pencil mark.

#### Micromeister

##### Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Supporter
and another SCALE kit I HAVE to have!! your guy's are killing my model materials budget

#### Peter Alway

##### Well-Known Member
Chris T was kind enough to pass on his old digital camera to me when he visited a couple weeks back. I've finally put it to use--here is a shot of the first prototype of my Saturn V kit.

#### Peter Alway

##### Well-Known Member
here is a picture of the tail end of the prototype.

#### Silverleaf

##### Well-Known Member
Peter,

Looks fantastic. 8)

The Saturn V is one I've not attempted to buy or build yet, so looking at this kit, it sure looks like its right up my alley. Really looks good !

Thanks for the pics. 8)

#### Sirius Rocketry

##### For the Serious Rocketeer
Saw this prototype at NARCON. It is a great size and will look great on the pad. A lot of detail for the size, and with nozzles attached for flight too!

Peter, I would love to see you kit your Vostok!

Welcome aboard!

We LOVE scale!

Dave Miller

#### sandman

##### Well-Known Member
Peter, I would love to see you kit your Vostok!
Dave,

Leave him be...I had to get him to join this forum to give him the kick in the pants to jump start this thing.

First the Saturn V.

THEN we can nag him about the Vostok...with maybe a Soyuz option??? I like the escape tower.

Go, Peter, go, Peter, go, Peter!

sandman

#### Peter Alway

##### Well-Known Member
While the Vostok is in queue, I'm thnking something simple might be fun for a break. Like the Contraves-Dornier Zenit. Here's a little picture.

#### bsexton

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Peter Alway
While the Vostok is in queue, I'm thnking something simple might be fun for a break. Like the Contraves-Dornier Zenit. Here's a little picture.
Kind of "WAC Corporal" looking - I like it...

#### Peter Alway

##### Well-Known Member
OK, I just ordered up a set of prototype decals from Tango Papa. And he asked me about Aerobee-Hi decals. I sent him some artwork. I wonder who could have been interested in that?

The instruction illustrations are progressing fairly well--Geeze, there are 13 pages of legal-sized pages of instructions now. But just a few more steps to illustrate. I have to packtrack and draw wrapping narrow tape around the booster, show where the decals go, show the nose section harness, and nose weight. So I have to figure out how Bill is going to do nose weight. More phone harrassment.

I really hope this comes out to a reasonable price. I'd hate to see it go for as much as an Estes kit twice the size!

#### Silverleaf

##### Well-Known Member
Peter,

To be honest, I think this kit would be more sought after given your pension for detail and the like. I've never built a Saturn V, so either way this is a must have. Given that its a Peter Alway design, well thats just icing on the cake. 8)

Cheers,

#### Peter Alway

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Silverleaf
Peter,

To be honest, I think this kit would be more sought after given your pension for detail and the like. I've never built a Saturn V, so either way this is a must have.
I'm flattered, but this kit is unambiguously less detailed than the Estes kit, and no more accurate. The advantage of this kit is its simplicity and cost. And if it's more expensive than the Estes kit, it kind of defeats the purpose.