Adept 22 Retired

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The RRC3 is not too little, but a little too late for me. I need a new altimeter for this weekend, and I'll probably just buy a Raven.
 
cwbullet said:
I have to admit the raven and adept with the common positive is a little hard to get use to, but once you do it becomes second nature.
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troj said:
I don't know anyone who actually likes it. I've seen numerous very experienced fliers who, the first time they try to use a common lead altimeter, spend 20 minutes scratching their heads, trying to wrap their brain around what they need to do. This includes people who are very knowledgeable about electronics, and who do circuit design.

They're nice little units; I've never had problems with them, but I, and lots of others I know, find them a pain to wire. And for the record, I own three of them, as they're great when I want something with an accelerometer.

The Adept unit was never a consideration for me -- that darned common wire is a pain, and isn't worth saving a few bucks, especially considering that an altimeter is a one-time purchase, and in the grand scheme of things, even a $150 Raven is a small portion of the total HPR expense.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

gdjsky01 said:
I had a 'bit' of head scratching on the common leads on the Adept-22. But it's never let me down. I use it only with low current matches (like HiRi's, Pratt Canisters - the old ones, or Quest Q2G2 - is there any reason to use anything else these days?).

I have my RRC2's on sleds that go quickly from one airframe to another. The wiring for the most part stays with the airframes. All I do is put leads in terminal blocks (which are all labeled). BTW: My RRC2's are late 90's early 2000s. The RRC2 mini is new to me but has the same menus structure as a Pet Timer2+ timer so it's very familiar to me.

YMMV
Click to expand...

You have to "pay a price" to make a circuit board smaller, and what goes first is duplicate connectors.

For those folks who like individual pairs of connections for their battery, arming switch, and e-matches, I have attached a simple terminal block wiring conversion diagram for the Adept 22 or with additional terminal, the Raven 3.

8 wire terminal strip to 4 wire altimeter connections.jpg
Bob
 
bobkrech said:
You have to "pay a price" to make a circuit board smaller, and what goes first is duplicate connectors.

For those folks who like individual pairs of connections for their battery, arming switch, and e-matches, I have attached a simple terminal block wiring conversion diagram for the Adept 22 or with additional terminal, the Raven 3.

View attachment 120599
Bob
Click to expand...

I do add terminal blocks. Actually just a two position to catch the common side of each e-match to have something solid to cinch down to--agsin, none of this is hard; in fact extremely simple, just a pain in the behind is all.
 
bobkrech said:
You have to "pay a price" to make a circuit board smaller, and what goes first is duplicate connectors.

For those folks who like individual pairs of connections for their battery, arming switch, and e-matches, I have attached a simple terminal block wiring conversion diagram for the Adept 22 or with additional terminal, the Raven 3.

View attachment 120599
Bob
Click to expand...

Bob, you're missing my point, entirely. Having to rig up some wiring gimmick to get around a common terminal is just one more thing I have to fiddle with. It annoys me, even when I have a gimmick to get around it -- I'd much rather have an altimeter that doesn't require this.

-Kevin
 
troj said:
Bob, you're missing my point, entirely. Having to rig up some wiring gimmick to get around a common terminal is just one more thing I have to fiddle with. It annoys me, even when I have a gimmick to get around it -- I'd much rather have an altimeter that doesn't require this.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

What sort of fiddling are you trying to avoid? In exchange for putting forth a little effort when preparing the avionics bay (a little soldering), you can save a TON of hassle when in the field.

I solder all of my wires to a row of header pins which are chosen to match the terminal block spacing. Any common pins simply have more than one wire soldered to them.

In the field, it's easy to hook up all of the wires at once. Simply hold the header pins inside the holes of the terminal block and tighten all of the screws on the altimeter, and you're done. That's it.


Additionally, because having a common terminal makes the altimeter smaller, the wiring in my avionics bay can be laid out better. Or it makes it actually possible, as in the case of Disappearing Act which I depicted in a previous post.


EDIT: I forgot the whole point of this post. Basically, my point is that because common terminals allow the manufacturers to put the terminals all on one side of the board, if you prepare the avionics bay properly it's actually easier to hook up in the field than an altimeter with two separate terminal blocks and no common, like the RRC3.
 
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troj said:
Bob, you're missing my point, entirely. Having to rig up some wiring gimmick to get around a common terminal is just one more thing I have to fiddle with. It annoys me, even when I have a gimmick to get around it -- I'd much rather have an altimeter that doesn't require this.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

Having a common terminal doesn't require using a separate terminal block. Just twist the common ends of the ematch leads together and stick them in the same terminal. Room inside the terminal block for 2 or 3 ematch wires is no issue if you use properly-sized wires. (24-30 gauge)

Be that as it may, I understand that a lot of the people want a separate terminal for each ematch lead, so in the future I'm considering making a larger, more expensive version for some products to accommodate that request. From what I've read, that version will probably be more popular. :cheers: You can lead a horse to water...
 
Adrian,

Can you take a good picture of how you hook it up?
 
Adrian A said:
Having a common terminal doesn't require using a separate terminal block. Just twist the common ends of the ematch leads together and stick them in the same terminal. Room inside the terminal block for 2 or 3 ematch wires is no issue if you use properly-sized wires. (24-30 gauge)

Be that as it may, I understand that a lot of the people want a separate terminal for each ematch lead, so in the future I'm considering making a larger, more expensive version for some products to accommodate that request. From what I've read, that version will probably be more popular. :cheers: You can lead a horse to water...
Click to expand...

As long as you don't skimp on the features of the cheaper, common terminal version, I'm alright with that. I prefer having more free space in my av-bays even when they're not way down to 38mm.
 
What really sucks is the DDC22 is no longer available. It was the cheapest DD altimeter out there
 
We already knew the RRC3 altimeter price -- $64.95. The question was, what about the LCD? Jim has had a chance to run the numbers on that, and it will retail for $29.95.

So, for a few pennies under $95, you can get an altimeter and and LCD, with the connector required to wire the two together. Buying multiple altimeters? You only need one LCD!

-Kevin
 
The Featherweight Sparrow is a low-cost, entry-level design I've been working on, off and on for a few years. With this announcement of the demise of the Adept22, it's going up to the front of the line. It will be priced right in this area, plus have a couple of unique Featherweight features. It looks like rocket folks getting into deployment altimeters will have some nice products and interesting choices for their first altimeter.
.
 
Adrian that is great news. I am glad to see the market competition opening up.
 
Adrian A said:
The Featherweight Sparrow is a low-cost, entry-level design I've been working on, off and on for a few years. With this announcement of the demise of the Adept22, it's going up to the front of the line. It will be priced right in this area, plus have a couple of unique Featherweight features. It looks like rocket folks getting into deployment altimeters will have some nice products and interesting choices for their first altimeter.
.
Click to expand...

Very nice!

-Kevin
 
Adrian A said:
Having a common terminal doesn't require using a separate terminal block. Just twist the common ends of the ematch leads together and stick them in the same terminal. Room inside the terminal block for 2 or 3 ematch wires is no issue if you use properly-sized wires. (24-30 ).
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I do.
 
Adrian A said:
Having a common terminal doesn't require using a separate terminal block. Just twist the common ends of the ematch leads together and stick them in the same terminal. Room inside the terminal block for 2 or 3 ematch wires is no issue if you use properly-sized wires. (24-30 gauge)

Be that as it may, I understand that a lot of the people want a separate terminal for each ematch lead, so in the future I'm considering making a larger, more expensive version for some products to accommodate that request. From what I've read, that version will probably be more popular. :cheers: You can lead a horse to water...
Click to expand...
As far as I know, you are the only one making a generally available full feature altimeter that fits in a 24 mm airframe, so I don't think it makes any sense to make your altimeters bigger by adding connectors. On the other hand, for those folks who fly larger rockets and like to have a pair of terminals per e-match oe igniter, why not just supply a board with a terminal strip, your magnetic switch, and a foot long ribbon cable to hook into your altimeter. You have almost every other accessory, and this would be good for guys who have big rockets and don't want to take the e-bay apart to hook up e-matches and igniters.

Bob
 
bobkrech said:
As far as I know, you are the only one making a generally available full feature altimeter that fits in a 24 mm airframe, so I don't think it makes any sense to make your altimeters bigger by adding connectors. On the other hand, for those folks who fly larger rockets and like to have a pair of terminals per e-match oe igniter, why not just supply a board with a terminal strip, your magnetic switch, and a foot long ribbon cable to hook into your altimeter. You have almost every other accessory, and this would be good for guys who have big rockets and don't want to take the e-bay apart to hook up e-matches and igniters.
Click to expand...

This makes sense. Just add it as an addon. I agree that smaller is better.
 
Adrian,

this is what I need...I used so far the German Altimax Simply for backup or small rockets but it is likewise the adept22 discontinued obviously.

A few questions:

will you use kalman filters?
events setup with simple jumpers or need for a terminal?
possibility to use Lipos?
approx SIZE???
availability? This year?
and last but not least would you ship to Europe?

Thx Denis
 
UncleVanya said:
Was the less than 9v measured with load or without? A 9v should measure higher than 9v when unloaded - anything measuring below 9v without load might be pretty spent. Had this combination of low voltage and ejection canisters been tested with the Adept before? I had a problem with a Giant Leap slim shot not working with Newton's 3rd ejection cannisters years ago. It tested on the ground the first time but subsequent tests revealed it to be very close to the edge of failure. Some would light, some would not. The all fire current required was too much for the little 12v battery that unit used. Later when they modified it with a small capacitor it was supposedly more reliable and I had great success firing J-Tek's but I still avoided fringe cases like the N3's.
Click to expand...
Yes, I did lots of testing preflight, see the photos below. I turned a 5 gallon paint pressure tank into a vacuum chamber testing unit. I was able to put the complete AV bay sled into the Vacuum chamber and also the complete Avbay sled/coupling unit into the chamber and simulate different altitudes. I tested a both the PF stratologger and the ADEPT22 quite a lot. The ADEPT22 seem to work Ok in my test chamber (newer 9 volt battery measuring min 9 volts w/no load and 72 Deg F) but in real world flight seem to have a lot hiccups. I did have a few flights where everything went fine and both altimeters fired the all the charges. But I noticed if I got lazy and tried to use the same 9 volt batteries on a few different flights and say the battery was down around 8.7 to 8.8 volts (w/no load) on a cold 30 Deg F day the Stratologger would fire the quickburst igniters always with no problems but the ADEPT22 was hit and miss, and completely misses on the last 2 flights so much to the point of I was afraid to use them anymore. Why do I use quickbust versus something that takes less amps as the quest Q2 igniter?, I like the way the quickburst igniters are put together, I generally fly larger 6 to 8 inch diameter rockets with L and M motors that have lots of acceleration and higher velocities and bigger BP charges, so a stronger made igniter is important to me. The quickburst igniters have larger wire gauge (stronger and stays put in the terminal block better with less chance of breakage), they have a nice thick insulation coating (less chance for a short especially when using aluminum ejection canisters) , also the wire seems to be a lot less brittle (they will not break off in the terminal block especially on a high G launch), the pyrogen dipped end is a very solid attachment and will not break off or apart even when flexed, they really seem to be unbreakable and very reliable, at least I have never had one not fire due to issue with the igniter itself on probably over 30 flights using them.
My response here is not to belittle the ADEPT22, in fact the owner of Adept gives great customer service and really went out of his way to help me work through some of these issues by phone and was extremely helpful and reachable which is not always easy to find in the rocket vendor business (thumbs up on being so easy to reach Adept by phone, most rocket vendors seem to have day jobs and do this part time and are near impossible to talk on the phone instantly with when needed, most just have a recording machine answer) Adept was so helpful so much in fact I felt very bad about explaining my not so positive experience using the ADEPT22, but was thinking that big dual deploy rockets is a serious business and any help I may be able to pass along no matter who’s product I will be honest about. My experience is that PF stratologger which is fairly close to cost as an ADEPT22 was a much more reliable choice for me, especially when you take some variables into account that can easily happen at a launch such as cold days, maybe a battery that has been on the pad for a while or used previously on a couple of flights.

ADEPT3.jpgADEPT1.jpgADEPT2.jpg
 
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bobkrech said:
As far as I know, you are the only one making a generally available full feature altimeter that fits in a 24 mm airframe, so I don't think it makes any sense to make your altimeters bigger by adding connectors. On the other hand, for those folks who fly larger rockets and like to have a pair of terminals per e-match oe igniter, why not just supply a board with a terminal strip, your magnetic switch, and a foot long ribbon cable to hook into your altimeter. You have almost every other accessory, and this would be good for guys who have big rockets and don't want to take the e-bay apart to hook up e-matches and igniters.
Bob
Click to expand...

That's pretty much exactly what the Power Perch is, except minus the ribbon cable and plus a battery. I've heard that a lot of people get the Perch just for the doubled terminals.

I'm planning to continue using the Raven's terminal assignments for some upcoming products, since there are a lot of av-bays out there that will work with them. But I am working on an entry-level altimeter that has the duplicated terminals for 1-to-1 connections.

legranddudu said:
Adrian,

this is what I need...I used so far the German Altimax Simply for backup or small rockets but it is likewise the adept22 discontinued obviously.

A few questions:

1. will you use kalman filters?
2. events setup with simple jumpers or need for a terminal?
3. possibility to use Lipos?
4. approx SIZE???
5. availability? This year?
6. and last but not least would you ship to Europe?

Thx Denis
Click to expand...

1. It's a baro-only altimeter, so I'm not planning on using a Kalman filter, at least at first. It will just have the Raven's baro-based apogee detection, plus a new automatic Mach-transient lockout. Implementing a Kalman filter is on my medium-range to-do list, though.
2. No need to connect it to a computer; it's designed to be as simple to use as possible, especially for a first-time user.
3. Yes.
4. Small, of course. It will definitely fit into a 29mm thick-walled coupler, maybe a 24mm airframe.
5. Available this year, but take that with a grain of salt, since my priorities have been known to change.
6. Yes, I ship pretty much anywhere in the world that has a rocket hobby.
 
bobkrech said:
As far as I know, you are the only one making a generally available full feature altimeter that fits in a 24 mm airframe... (citing a "Raven")
Click to expand...

Just wanted to mention that the RRC3 (available next month) is a full-feature altimeter that fits in a 24mm airframe.
It provides dedicated point-to-point compression terminals for all user wiring (battery, power switch, drogue, main).

The Stratologger also fits comfortably in a 24mm airframe, as does the Tele-Mini.
Are these not considered full feature altimeters because they lack inertial sensing?
 
Adept 22 Retired? I think not! Has anyone looked at Adept's home page, updated 3/19. There may be hope!
 

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