Abstraction

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rocwizard

Well-Known Member
If you remember the thread entitled "Mmm, Karbon", this is the follow up to it. The rest of the vehicles parts arrived and I quickly got the vehicle assembled. It is very simplein design really, just a fincan, a 38" booster tube, a 36" payload tube, and a 6.5:1 fiberglass conical nosecone from Polecat Aerospace. The tubing is FWFG material from Hawk Mountain. It's excellent stuff. The total length is just about 8.5' +/- 2 depending on configuration. In case you haven't guessed it yet, this is a minimum diameter project.

rocwizard

Well-Known Member
I used the appliance epoxy paint mentioned in another thread, and it worked great! The finish must be seen in person. This is the only paint I have ever used that gave a near perfect finish without needing primer or clear coat. <note: it specifies NOT to use primer in conjunction with it> Yesterday, I got this nifty little Kryptonite sticker from Frank Kosdon and I knew it would be perfect on this rocket.

rocwizard

Well-Known Member
Abstraction will have two flights at BALLS this year. This first of which will be its "shakedown" flight on an L820S. This is almost a full L, which fits in the 75/4700 case. Its 5.5 sec. burn time should send it flying to about 17K and Mach 1.3...

rocwizard

Well-Known Member
Now for what you have all been waiting for, or at least i've been anyways... After flying on the L820S, it will get its special motor. This is a custom load made for me by Frank. It started out as a standard M5100 load for his 75/10000 case which is 56" long, which no doubt would have been VERY COOL. But then, after flying one of his smaller high aluminized loads, I knew thats what had to have. so after a quick call to Frank, i find out that he can run the high Al stuff in the 10K case. A couple of unfortunate side affects of this propellant include copious amounts of flame and smoke and a high Isp which boosts the delivered impulse of this motor to 12K ns. Oh darn, I hate when that happens

Acouple of us are making bets on what the designation will be. Even Frank isn't sure! One thing is for sure, any way this flights goes down <er, up> it will be speactacular! My guess is an N6500 which would haul it to 32K <way under optimal mass> and Mach 3.2

Here are all the parts of the load:

rocwizard

Well-Known Member
You know it's a big motor when a G64 will easily pass through the nozzle!

Stymye

Well-Known Member
amazing,how do you guys do it at age 17 !
don't all those motors require a L3 cert ?
I ask because thats WAY out of L2 range stuff
what do I need to do to get one of those motors and fly something like that?

rocwizard

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I forgot to mention that Wedge Oldham is a co-conspirator in this project. He has given his support in many ways ever since I brought the idea to his attention, including motor support. He has been a proponent of this project from the beginning

Look for us on the upcoming Extreme Rocketry BALLS documentary!

I might also add that this project has received support from numeous other high standing members of the rocketry community

rocwizard

Well-Known Member
Styme, if you want one of these motors or any of the other awesome loads Frank has or can create, give him a call. E-mail me if you want his number. A few words of caution however, you must fly most of his motors at EX launches. However, several of them in varying sizes are still cert'ed by NAR. check the site to see which ones. Secondly, these motors will be more than happy to test the limitations of your rocket. Build strong!

n3tjm

Papa Elf
Can you post closeups of those fuel grains?

rocwizard

Well-Known Member
No problem Doug, this pic is one of two grains that have a ring of polyurethane applied to one end. These are the tow aft most grinas in the motor. Frank was saying it is to prevent chunks of the grain from being ripped off.

rstaff3

Oddroc-eteer
Sweet rocket and sweet motor. Makes me fell like I'm just playing with toys however.

Stones

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by rstaff3
Sweet rocket and sweet motor. Makes me fell like I'm just playing with toys however.
Rgr that Dick. I'd love to be able to fly that kind of rocket, have a place to do it locally, and not have to jump through too many hoops to accomplish it. However, it's just a simple matter of adding 0's (zeros),1k's of alt. turn into 10k's of alt. Bigger birds, bigger motors.....
Bigger price tag... I guess as long as I can fly, it's a good thing.

n3tjm

Papa Elf
Originally posted by rocwizard
No problem Doug, this pic is one of two grains that have a ring of polyurethane applied to one end. These are the tow aft most grinas in the motor. Frank was saying it is to prevent chunks of the grain from being ripped off.
Thats what I wanted to see . The have inhibitors on them .

Can you show the other end?

rstaff3

Oddroc-eteer
Originally posted by Stones
Rgr that Dick. I'd love to be able to fly that kind of rocket, have a place to do it locally, and not have to jump through too many hoops to accomplish it. However, it's just a simple matter of adding 0's (zeros),1k's of alt. turn into 10k's of alt. Bigger birds, bigger motors.....
Bigger price tag... I guess as long as I can fly, it's a good thing.
Yep, those bigger projects are beyond my budget, not to mention the "L???" word. Anyway, I felt bad for about 5 minutes so I'm over it

PS Sorry to hijack this good thread with my whining...this is my last OT post....at least here

DynaSoar

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by rocwizard
If you remember the thread entitled "Mmm, Karbon", this is the follow up to it. The rest of the vehicles parts arrived and I quickly got the vehicle assembled. It is very simplein design really, just a fincan, a 38" booster tube, a 36" payload tube, and a 6.5:1 fiberglass conical nosecone from Polecat Aerospace. The tubing is FWFG material from Hawk Mountain. It's excellent stuff. The total length is just about 8.5' +/- 2 depending on configuration. In case you haven't guessed it yet, this is a minimum diameter project.
Very excellent. What kind of fin can?

rocwizard

Well-Known Member
DynaSoar, its a Dok Von Karbon fin can. They can be had from Missile Works. its very stout, and will handle the motor with ease. It would be a challenge to come up with a motor that could shred this rocket.

Anyways, yeah, it was expensive, and I don't plan on flying motors this size very often. It is worth it in every way though IMHO.

Doug, here are some other shots of the grain:

profile shot:

Stymye

Well-Known Member
you must fly most of his motors at EX launches
thanks Eric ,, I plan on getting L2 next season so I can get into ex
Ive been studing alot but I've still have a lot to learn about propellant ,I made my first cases and closures over the past few weeks.

daveyfire

Piled Higher and Deeper
Originally posted by rocwizard
you must fly most of his motors at EX launches.
Ummmm that's a loaded statement. According to Tripoli EX rules, you gotta make the motor you fly if you do it, or the person making the motor must be on your team. Call up Frank and I'm sure he'd be happy to be on yours -- not really an issue, just a minor technicality I'd like to clear up before it grows into something unfun

Originally posted by rocwizard
Secondly, these motors will be more than happy to test the limitations of your rocket. Build strong!
He ain't kidding. I think Pat Gordzelik put it best: "So pick out some rockets yore pissed off at and want to shred ... and remember this, I ain't shittin ya...so double up on the Elmers..."

BTW, nice L motor casing, Eric. Where did you get that?

Only 20 days till BALLS! Gawd, I can't wait!

Ozymandias

Well-Known Member
Awesome! I'd recognize that DVK fin can anywhere. It looks like I'm going to have to build a Super Ozymandias now. Watch out! ;-)

David "Waiver Busting" Roy

rocwizard

Well-Known Member
Oh yes, I forgot about that. This year, Frank is going to be on our team ALOT.

David, when you get back from college sometime, you and i are going to have to drag race these things

...just...

BlueNinja

Well-Known Member
Question1: How much is this motor gonna cost?

Question2: Is this rocket heat resistant enough to handle mach 3?

rocwizard

Well-Known Member
Answer 1: This load is $500. The special nozzle for it is$83. Pretty darn good deal when you consider the AT equivalent N2000W is retailing for \$800 now days. The rest of the hardware is being loaned to me.

Answer 2: The nosecone tip will be filled with weight surrounding a length of threaded rod running through the cone. The remainder of the cone will be filled with high density foam. The nosecone experiences the majority of the aerodynamic heating the vehicles receives, and I believe the structure will hold up fine. the only other area affected by this heating would be the fins, which are on rock solid. The only problems that I see are those in recovery, however even then, I am doing everything I can to ensure success. Redundancy is everywhere. The electronics package is up to the job. The vehicle is getting nothing but the best components out there. while it is complex, I am trying to follow the K.I.S.S. principle using straight forward techniques that have been proven many times over. Basically all that is left is to put it on the pad, light the candle and hope all the planning works as it should. Any minor issues which may crop up should be spotted in the "shakedown" flight before letting it loose on the N.

*fingers crossed*

Ryan S.

Well-Known Member
ouch that is alot

daveyfire

Piled Higher and Deeper
Originally posted by rocwizard
Any minor issues which may crop up should be spotted in the "shakedown" flight before letting it loose on the N.
I don't really consider 17,000 feet to be a "shakedown"... but to each his own

According to the formula in the April 1999 issue of HPR (article: "Does Your Rocket Have a Fever?", p. 44), and assuming ambient temperature of 80 degrees, at 3381 fps (roughly Mach 3 at sea level standard conditions), the external temperature rise will be 1024 degrees. Sheesh!

lalligood

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by daveyfire
...and assuming ambient temperature of 80 degrees, at 3381 fps (roughly Mach 3 at sea level standard conditions), the external temperature rise will be 1024 degrees. Sheesh!
Sounds like someone might want consider bringing ovenmitts to the launch site for when they retrieve their rocket. That's HOT! hehe

Good luck with the flight!

rocwizard

Well-Known Member
If i'm lucky, all the paint will burn off the nosecone and leave the cone sorta intact. Though if the cone melts too, that would also be cool The twisted remains would make a nice conversation piece.

Ryan S.

Well-Known Member
after you burn the paint off...clear coat the rocket, then your paintjob will look darn cool

Ozymandias

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by rocwizard
Oh yes, I forgot about that. This year, Frank is going to be on our team ALOT.

David, when you get back from college sometime, you and i are going to have to drag race these things
Heh heh. I'm game.