A Question on Eggtimer Altimeter Kit Options...

[cerving]

Just what the question says... would you be willing to pay a little more if the SMT parts were pre-mounted? Thinking mainly of the altimeters... Quark, Quantum, Proton. Gotta get my money's worth out of the pick-and-place machine... right now it's only being used for the sensors on the Proton.

 

[Kelly]

Just what the question says... would you be willing to pay a little more if the SMT parts were pre-mounted? Thinking mainly of the altimeters... Quark, Quantum, Proton. Gotta get my money's worth out of the pick-and-place machine... right now it's only being used for the sensors on the Proton.

Certainly not opposed to you offering, but I wouldn't pay extra. I've assembled your highest-difficulty kits and never had any issue with the SMT soldering, despite my aging eyes.

The GPS modules, on the other hand... (though, I guess technically these are SMT as well)

 

[SolarYellow]

Definitely. I have found that I have limited build time up against an effectively unlimited (long enough to keep me going Beyond Life Expectancy) build list, so if I can pay a few more bucks to have something done better than I would do it, that's a win.

 

[Kane]

I wouldn't take so much issue with the added cost, but I would definitely miss assembling the kits myself. Would you consider offering the pre-mounted SMT parts as an option but still offer the full build it yourself option?

 

[2-0turbo]

I like building your kits and like @Kelly , I've assembled your 5/5 kits and done so satisfactorily. So, I'd say I may NOT exercise the option, but having the option would be nice. Like @Kane suggested, having the option is nice. If I have time, I'll probably keep building them. But there may be a time I'm not able to or am just out-of-time and need something to replace a lost/damaged unit and am willing to pay more money to just get it.

But it sounds like you're only going to pre-mount the SMT components. That still leaves assembly for the end user, albeit with perhaps larger components. I would certainly consider the option if it was available.

 

[wonderboy]

For me, price to feature set ratio is the key metric. I view the eggtimer products to be the best value out there. Personally, I enjoy putting them together so it would be a negative to have to pay more for the same product. Like was said above, as long as it was an option and I could still opt for the non-partially assembled version I'd be fine. I definitely would not want the higher cost partially assembled option to be the only one available.

 

[Azamiryou]

If both were available, I'd always opt for the cheaper one with more to assemble. I have no problem doing the soldering, and building it is part of the fun.

If only the partially assembled one were available and the price were higher, I'd still buy it if it was noticeably cheaper and/or more capable than similar offerings from other companies. I probably wouldn't really even notice, as long as there was still something to assemble and the price wasn't too high.

 

[secretagent]

Agree with @Kelly - I find assembly enjoyable and wouldn’t pay extra to skip it.

 

[augendoc]

I’ve assembled pretty much all the Eggtimer kits and have had no problems other than an SMT LED I soldered on backwards and then managed to fracture when I desoldered it. I do not find soldering the SMT components difficult. In fact, I enjoy putting these kits together. I will admit that I do use a hot air rework station and no-clean soldering paste for most of the SMTs. It does a really neat job of gettig these parts attached. I do use a regular soldering station and Cris’s Kester no-clean solder for the through-hole stuff and to beef up the solder on the voltage regulators.

If the kits came with an option to buy them with pre-soldered components I would still stick with the non-soldered versions.

I love these kits. Cris has put a lot of engineering and programming into them and it shows.

 

[BEC]

I voted yes. My hands aren't getting any steadier and my eyes, while still pretty good, are not getting better (I will be 70 this year). I have built several kits, though most were the simpler ones. The smaller SMT parts are doable, but not what I would call fun, for me.

It would come down to how much the delta cost was between the two offerings was, if there were options for a particular product I was looking for.

 

[bad_idea]

So long as they remain cost competitive, I would be happy to trade money for time in some cases. I'd guess FCC rules wouldn't permit you to sell assembled Quasars and Eggfinder Minis without extensive testing and certification, but I'd be glad if I were incorrect about that.

 

[g.pitts]

I personally enjoy building them. I've hand soldered most, but for the most recent builds of the A18 PCB variants I've broken out the hand dandy toaster oven and used stencils with solder paste (haven't gotten the stencils yet for the B3 revision of the PCB). There aren't too terribly many SMT components on the Quantum, which is my altimeter of choice. Do you have a sense of what the cost delta would be if you were to use the pick and place on the Quantum versus the kit price?

 

[Antares JS]

I'd be willing to pay a little more, but because your altimeters are some of the best deals on the market regardless. I don't really care about having the parts pre-mounted. After assembling the Eggfinder system before the GPS module was pre-mounted and having the thing actually work the first time I turned it on, I'm pretty confident in my ability to assemble whatever from you.

 

[boatgeek]

I'm torn, so I said no difference. The devil is in the details, though.

On the one hand, the basic SMT stuff (resistors, capacitors, and the like) are the easy part for me, so there's not much value to me personally in taking that assembly away. The bigger multipin items (processors, EEPROMs, etc.) and especially the GPS/WiFi modules are more stressful, though I haven't actually dorked any boards by doing it wrong (furiously knocks wood).

On the other, I don't think that modest price increases (say in the 10%-20% range) would have any impact on my decision to buy or not.

Everything stays as it is? No worries. $5-$10 more to not have to solder on GPS and WiFi modules? I'd take that in a heartbeat. $30 more and all I have to do is through-hole parts so it stays a kit? Honestly, I'd probably take that too, though I'd have to look at pricing for equivalent products (eg RRC2+ ~= Quark). I'd maybe grumble a little though.

I'm also one customer, and not a power buyer at that.

 

[neilrbowen]

I'm not sure it overly matters, although if we're doing feedback & development I'd love to see a really really small altimeter as an option. Maybe with a USB port to get the data off easily.

 

[NTP2]

Please don’t make the kits unavailable or anything!! I love building them!! A fun project and a useful tool at the same time! But I’m fine with offering it to those who don’t want to solder!

 

[VAXman]

I don't mind building your kits. I studied undergrad/grad Electronics Engineering and I've been building kits since the '60s. Parts have gotten progressively smaller since I was building amplifiers and synthesizer kits, but a decent magnifier and a good clean soldering setup makes it no real problem AFAIAC.

 

[KenECoyote]

I've probably assembled over 20 of these products and really enjoyed doing so, however I had a couple of problem ones recently, so that took some of the pride out of me lol.

I think a kit option of the wifi and GPS modules already mounted is a great idea.

 

[cerving]

We already pre-mount GPS modules, and have been doing that since early 2023.

The WiFi modules can't be pre-mounted in the current board configurations, it would take a board re-design to do that, and then they would not be able to be hand-soldered. Reflowing doesn't work well for PC board pads with holes in them... the solder just drips down the holes and doesn't stay on the pads. It would also make it virtually impossible to replace the WiFi module if there was a problem.

The Quark would be the first altimeter that we would offer with pre-mounted SMT parts, that makes it more attractive to some users since they don't have to solder those 0805 parts or the SOIC chips (processor and drivers). That just leaves the buzzer, headers, terminal block, and their battery/switch wiring to be soldered.

 

[SolarYellow]

The Quark would be the first altimeter that we would offer with pre-mounted SMT parts, that makes it more attractive to some users since they don't have to solder those 0805 parts or the SOIC chips (processor and drivers). That just leaves the buzzer, headers, terminal block, and their battery/switch wiring to be soldered.

That would be perfect. Lots of my intended uses get into alternative implementations around those remaining parts, so you're basically saying you'd do all the stuff I'd want standard and leave the custom stuff for me to customize.

 

[KenECoyote]

We already pre-mount GPS modules, and have been doing that since early 2023.

The WiFi modules can't be pre-mounted in the current board configurations, it would take a board re-design to do that, and then they would not be able to be hand-soldered. Reflowing doesn't work well for PC board pads with holes in them... the solder just drips down the holes and doesn't stay on the pads. It would also make it virtually impossible to replace the WiFi module if there was a problem.

The Quark would be the first altimeter that we would offer with pre-mounted SMT parts, that makes it more attractive to some users since they don't have to solder those 0805 parts or the SOIC chips (processor and drivers). That just leaves the buzzer, headers, terminal block, and their battery/switch wiring to be soldered.

I think that would be a good seller. I have friends that are older and their eyes and hands aren't what they used to be and are also on a budget and would likely buy them (since I often tell them how much I like Eggtimer stuff).

 

[VAXman]

We already pre-mount GPS modules, and have been doing that since early 2023.

I know you had started mounting the baro-sensor; now the GPS units too?

 

[cerving]

I know you had started mounting the baro-sensor; now the GPS units too?

Yup. We've always mounted the baro's because they're leadless packages. The newer GPS modules are as well, and although we could have had users hand-solder the Quectel GPS's, they don't have the same pads on the bottom for grounding and mechanical support, so pre-mounting them is a better option.

 

[rharshberger]

I like building the kits and the price is part of my attraction to them, the only parts I hated soldering were the GPS modules (been a while), the wifi board really didn't bother me much. The other parts are easy once you learn how.

 

[teepot]

Definitely yes. I had mine built by someone else. I would pay extra for a completely assembled one.

 

[cerving]

We're not going to be selling them completely assembled... you'll still have to install the through-hole parts. It does bring the parts count way down and make it a very easy build, though.

 

[BNev]

It could also let you use smaller boards/components so I'm all for it!
One thing I would like to see is a different model of GPS. I've had two that won't pick up any satellites

 

[Tractionengines]

It doesn't matter to me as long as cost adder is not too much. I do enjoy building the boards, but I don't need to.

Leaving the connectors, buzzers, and power jumpers off is needed. I have done lots of variations of those items and having flexibility to adapt, without un-soldering stuff is appreciated. Thank you for the great products.

WAIT:

Gotta get my money's worth out of the pick-and-place machine... right now it's only being used for the sensors on the Proton.

You got a pick-and-place machine for mounting only a few items!?!? The ones I'm familiar with are big, expensive, and not what is expected for a small run situation. What make and model?

 

[NTP2]

WAIT:

You got a pick-and-place machine for mounting only a few items!?!? The ones I'm familiar with are big, expensive, and not what is expected for a small run situation. What make and model?

Small ones are pretty simple devices, a CNC gantry with a sucker at the end, there’s a few open source ones for hobbyists and I’m quite sure that there’s several for small businesses.

 

[Pilotx1]

getting to build it all was a big draw for me buying into the eggtimer line. The challenge of the smaller parts placement working with tweezers and magnifying glass is what make it fun for me