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A Linguist's Thoughts On The Cherokee D

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K'Tesh

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As I'm a linguist (my degree is in Applied Linguistics, and I'm an English teacher), I'm fond of word games, puns, and rhymes. I'm also a rocketeer, and classic Estes designs are favorites of mine.

Take the Cherokee D for example. That kit filled my 13-year-old self's dream of the perfect rocket. Big (compared to the BT-20 and BT-50 rockets I built before it), sleek, and stylish.



Periodically I see people upscale or redshift the design. Frequently they change the name from Cherokee D to Cherokee M or L or any of the larger motor sizes they intend to use for their cert flight. To me, and this is my opinion only, names like Cherokee M or L sound odd. Likewise, "A", "F", "H", "I", "J", "K", "L", "M", "N", "O", "Q", "R", "S", "U", "W", "X", and "Y" because they don't rhyme with the "Dee" sound using American English pronunciations as opposed to "B", "C", "E", "G", "P", "T", "V", and "Z" which all rhyme with "Dee" and wouldn't don't sound nearly as odd.

The stock forms of the Cherokee D also had a decal that said "D POWER". At the time the kit came out, that was as big as Estes produced. Now we have 24mm E motors, and 29mm F motors. Upscales can go even further up the alphabet, as does the diameter of the motors used.

Since my upscale could take any 29mm motor, or with an adapter a 24mm motor, my solution to the naming issue was to keep the original name, but change the "D POWER" decal to reflect the largest diameter motor it can handle.



Of course there are those who disagree with me, and I had a particularly nasty interaction between a pair of individuals (who have since given up on TRF) and myself. The disagreement (since deleted here) was partially blamed on me suggesting staying with the traditional name (Cherokee D) for of one of their upscales, and just updating the motor diameter (that discussion took place on another forum). It was only intended as a suggestion, and not some kind of attack, but the other individual didn't take it that way. My logic was that the odds of only launching a kit on a single motor range (such as "L"), and never going below or above that makes the oddity even more pronounced.

Again, these are only my opinions as a linguist, and not intended to belittle anybody's efforts. If you want to build a Cherokee D name it "Raymond Luxury Yacht", and pronounce it "Throat Warbler Mangrove" that's on you. :p

BTW, the CG/CP markings on my rocket have since been changed to reflect the correct shape and colors. The number "8" reflects that this was the 8th Cherokee D I'd made up to that point.
 

ThirstyBarbarian

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Them's fightin' words! :wink:

I agree that the names sounds best if the letter rhymes with "dee".
 

o1d_dude

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One of my all time favorite birds.

Have Cherokee DD multi-stage somewhere in my stored LPR stuff. Built it from plans downloaded from YORF and parts from Semroc and an Estes kit of similar size. Decals from the fellow who ran the mailorder before Sandman, IIRC.

Dang. Gonna have to dig it out...
 

K'Tesh

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Cherokee Zed?
Rex
Rex, if you look at the OP, you'll see I said

Likewise, "A", "F", "H", "I", "J", "K", "L", "M", "N", "O", "Q", "R", "S", "U", "W", "X", and "Y" because they don't rhyme with the "Dee" sound using American English pronunciations as opposed to "B", "C", "E", "G", "P", "T", "V", and "Z" which all rhyme with "Dee" and wouldn't don't sound nearly as odd.
That was implied to carry on to the letters that do rhyme with "Dee" in American English (AmE) pronunciation, and not the "Zed" of British English (BrE) pronunciation. But then again, I'm sure that you were just poking fun. However, with the level of autism involved on my part (and the fatigue exacerbating things), I can't be certain. So, I will take the extra step to go beyond implication and say it in clear language... All of my discussion on this topic's pronunciation are intended to use the American English's pronunciations (with a West Coast accent) except where otherwise noted.

A side note on the West Coast accent: The words "cot" and "caught" sound exactly alike. Oregon is pronounced like you have a second choice of weapons to use in a duel (... Or a (pronounced like "uh") gun. "Washington" and "idea" are correctly pronounced, and not pronounced with an "r" sound (unlike a certain New York motorcycle manufacturer's pronunciation (whose TV show has gone off the air))(Please Note: There is no "r" in the spelling of "Washington", nor in the spelling of "idea"). The title "aunt" can be pronounced either like the insect "ant" or with a "awnt" kind of sound ("ant" is more common though). Also, we like use the word "Like" like way too often.
 

Charles_McG

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Jim, your OCD is acting up again. :)

Besides, Rex's post is obviously a typo. I'm sure he meant 'Cherokedd Zed'

(One of those time I hate English orthography - how do you spell it so it makes it rhyme, rather than past tense?)

It's all Jeh-min-eye, Jeh-mih-knee to me. What matters is how high she flies.
 

ThirstyBarbarian

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Rex, if you look at the OP, you'll see I said



That was implied to carry on to the letters that do rhyme with "Dee" in American English (AmE) pronunciation, and not the "Zed" of British English (BrE) pronunciation. But then again, I'm sure that you were just poking fun. However, with the level of autism involved on my part (and the fatigue exacerbating things), I can't be certain. So, I will take the extra step to go beyond implication and say it in clear language... All of my discussion on this topic's pronunciation are intended to use the American English's pronunciations (with a West Coast accent) except where otherwise noted.

A side note on the West Coast accent: The words "cot" and "caught" sound exactly alike. Oregon is pronounced like you have a second choice of weapons to use in a duel (... Or a (pronounced like "uh") gun. "Washington" and "idea" are correctly pronounced, and not pronounced with an "r" sound (unlike a certain New York motorcycle manufacturer's pronunciation (whose TV show has gone off the air))(Please Note: There is no "r" in the spelling of "Washington", nor in the spelling of "idea"). The title "aunt" can be pronounced either like the insect "ant" or with a "awnt" kind of sound ("ant" is more common though). Also, we like use the word "Like" like way too often.
How did I live all these years and only find out today that the British pronounce the letter Z "zed". Apparently most of the English-speaking world does, and America is the notable exception.
 

K'Tesh

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How did I live all these years and only find out today that the British pronounce the letter Z "zed". Apparently most of the English-speaking world does, and America is the notable exception.
America does like to be the odd one out doesn't it... I hate not being taught how to calculate the conversions from Imperial to Metric in my head. I only just learned how to roughly compute degrees C into degrees F.
 

TheTellurian

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Actually I've always taken Zed as the letters name not it's pronunciation and the zee thing was started by Bostonians way back which went viral after a spat of some demanding an Amerikin language.

Excuse me while I hide out in my bunker. :duck: :grin:


Richard
 

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Oregon is pronounced like you have a second choice of weapons to use in a duel (... Or a (pronounced like "uh") gun.
That is interesting, I always thought of it as "or-ee-gun".
 

Nytrunner

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I like pronouncing Oregon like octagon to mess with friends from Portland.

As for the Cherokee, I think increasing the letter grade makes much more sense than sticking with a single letter for aural aesthetics. I mean, you can't fly that 75mm rocket on a D, it just sounds wrong no matter how much it rhymes.

And if you make a 54mm hole, it Can fly on I's, J's, and K's, but let's say it normally flies on J's.......well that sounds like a Cherokee J to me.

Of course this is my 3¢ (adjusted for inflation)
 

dhbarr

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Cheroot. Cherokeet. Chamiriquois.
 

stealth6

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Chim chiminey, chim chiminey, chim chim cher-ee.

K'Tesh: A - I'm totally with you about being focused on little linguistic/pronunciation details. I too have a lot of fun (and get a bit obsessed) with things like you are talking about. I spend way too much time & energy on things like "zee/zed", pronunciations of words and names like "Oregon", the fact that there is NO "r" in "Washington", etc. And I totally get where your are coming from in your logic regarding the "Cherokee D". But........ B - I disagree a bit. I like the use of "Cherokee M" and such for upscales. It's kinda clever.
But it's all about interesting FUN for me.......ain't nuthin' worth fighting about.

How about "Rockety McRocketFace"?
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/22/...you-get-when-you-let-the-internet-decide.html


but what I'm really interested in - and fully prepared to take sides and fight to the death over - is:
How do you pronounce "K'Tesh"?

s6
 

Nytrunner

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but what I'm really interested in - and fully prepared to take sides and fight to the death over - is:
How do you pronounce "K'Tesh"?

s6
It can only be pronounced with the same energy and enunciation as a Klingon insult during battle!
 

djs

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I always assumed it was related to the "D-region"- like the D Region tomahawk.

Note- don't type "Cherokee D" into google.. or you'll get some very 'non-rocket" related results.
 

rharshberger

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I always assumed it was related to the "D-region"- like the D Region tomahawk.

Note- don't type "Cherokee D" into google.. or you'll get some very 'non-rocket" related results.
And none are family friendly either.
 

djs

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And none are family friendly either.
Well, ya know, the D motor is pretty intense for a kid to fly. When I first started in rocketry in 89, I was 13, and a little afraid of "the mighty D"
 

djs

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er.. i just realized how that last bit could be very badly misread. I'm talking about rocket motors here!
 

Marc_G

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K'Tesh,

I'm greatly amused by this thread. But I hope you realize, that somewhere in the distant future, alien anthropologists will be picking through the long-dead remains of our civilization, and upon coming across this discussion resurrected from a preserved server, will be laughing their alien @$$es off that these "hu-mans" could argue about such trivia. Of course, shortly after mocking this thread, they will come upon any of the "what type of glue should I use" threads... and realize that we were never meant to join the galactic community after all.

Happy fourth, all!
 

ThirstyBarbarian

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Note- don't type "Cherokee D" into google.. or you'll get some very 'non-rocket" related results.
LOL! Of course I just HAD to see what would happen! I wonder if she's a linguist...
 

ThirstyBarbarian

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K'Tesh,

I'm greatly amused by this thread. But I hope you realize, that somewhere in the distant future, alien anthropologists will be picking through the long-dead remains of our civilization, and upon coming across this discussion resurrected from a preserved server, will be laughing their alien @$$es off that these "hu-mans" could argue about such trivia. Of course, shortly after mocking this thread, they will come upon any of the "what type of glue should I use" threads... and realize that we were never meant to join the galactic community after all.

Happy fourth, all!
There's a theory that most advanced civilizations throughout the universe don't survive long because they end up destroying themselves arguing about glue.
 

Incongruent

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Of course this is my 3¢ (adjusted for inflation)
I calculated it to be 26¢ accounting for inflation (since the phrase was created) but if you use the 'cost to mail a letter' interpretation then you end up at roughly 50¢.
 

gna

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America does like to be the odd one out doesn't it... I hate not being taught how to calculate the conversions from Imperial to Metric in my head. I only just learned how to roughly compute degrees C into degrees F.
Do the same for all metric--double it and add 30.
 

K'Tesh

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but what I'm really interested in - and fully prepared to take sides and fight to the death over - is:
How do you pronounce "K'Tesh"?

s6
I pronounce K'Tesh like the word "Cut" without the "t" (so "Kuh") and "Tesh" like John Tesh's last name. John Tesh appeared on the 14th episode of the 2nd season of TNG in an uncredited role while he was working for Entertainment Tonight. According to my friend Dragon Dronet (the Klingon who was standing next to him in the holodeck) his character was named "Tesh'Ka". However, the collectible card game had his image named "K'Tesh", along with a description stating that he was an engineer who helped with the holodeck program.
 
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