A Level 2 Cert with Cardboard - Build Thread

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I have a Binder Design Excel. It eats H to J motors without batting an eye. It can take K motors just fine if you build it well. No special reinforcement needed. Binder makes fabulous rockets.
I agree. The Excel is a nice, rugged rocket that can handle up to K motors if epoxy is used in the construction. I've seen plenty of cardboard rockets that are used for L2 flights. They don't give me any heartburn.
 
Cool!

So did I! L1 on H238, and L2 on J275 in a stock LOC Expediter in ~'96.

aaaand, I used that same old Expediter for my current L1 cert in 2020.

I was about halfway done with the same transition mod for an AltAcc when I stopped flying for a while. I'd be interested to see your bay if you have pics!



Very cool! I'll get pics for sure, thanks!
Nice! My L2 was on a J500. It's also gone over a mile on a J570W, which was just an amazing flight, to say the least. Here are some pics of the sled setup and the bay as a whole. Vent holes are high up on the upper shoulder to keep them away from the turbulence around the transition. Also have a picture of a J315R liftoff.
 

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Nice! My L2 was on a J500. It's also gone over a mile on a J570W, which was just an amazing flight, to say the least. Here are some pics of the sled setup and the bay as a whole. Vent holes are high up on the upper shoulder to keep them away from the turbulence around the transition. Also have a picture of a J315R liftoff.

Good looking Expediter and great photo on the red motor! I bet it was fun on the J570!

You've got a good bit of tape on that 4" shoulder, I guess they all fit loosely. Thanks for posting pics, you've knocked the dust off some old memories.
This is mine, circa 1996, in Ft Valley, GA and on the pad at Freedom Launch in Orangeburg, SC 1997.

Expediter.jpg

My Expediter-extended.jpg

The additional white section above the transition was the altimeter bay from my original Floyd rocket (being recreated in this thread), swapped over to this rocket for a quick DD flight. The 'chute was reefed a bit and it landed hard on one fin, creasing the airframe just above the fins and cracking a fillet. It was either an I300 or another J275, and was the last flight of the Expediter until repairs were finished 23 years later for my L1 recertification flight.

Thanks for sharing the pics!
 
Good looking Expediter and great photo on the red motor! I bet it was fun on the J570!

You've got a good bit of tape on that 4" shoulder, I guess they all fit loosely. Thanks for posting pics, you've knocked the dust off some old memories.
This is mine, circa 1996, in Ft Valley, GA and on the pad at Freedom Launch in Orangeburg, SC 1997.

View attachment 517265

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The additional white section above the transition was the altimeter bay from my original Floyd rocket (being recreated in this thread), swapped over to this rocket for a quick DD flight. The 'chute was reefed a bit and it landed hard on one fin, creasing the airframe just above the fins and cracking a fillet. It was either an I300 or another J275, and was the last flight of the Expediter until repairs were finished 23 years later for my L1 recertification flight.

Thanks for sharing the pics!
Nice! No problem. And yes, the J570 was a GREAT flight...lol...This rocket is just amazing, and yes - the transition is always loose. It was on my first one as well...lol...

I like the black and white scheme on yours!

Oh - here's the J570...found a pic of it...a bit over 5300' on this one.
 

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Didn't somebody build his Cert 3 rocket out of cardboard tubing?

It was a big Tube Fin design that even on an M-motor probably wouldn't hit 3,000ft.
 
Didn't somebody build his Cert 3 rocket out of cardboard tubing?

It was a big Tube Fin design that even on an M-motor probably wouldn't hit 3,000ft.
Wouldn't surprise me. 20 years ago, there wasn't much available in terms of fiberglass kits, so most used cardboard. No reason it can't work now. I'm hoping to use a LOC kit for my L3. Look at the Skinwalker...it's designed for L3 motors, and it's a cardboard/plywood kit.
 
My L2 was a LOC MegaMagg last Feb. Stock with lots of West Systems epoxy in the fin can (good construction tips from John Coker!). J350 w/ motor ejection, landed scratch-free on the lakebed. I did substitute larger chute (84" TopFlight), figuring longer walk better than landing damage. Cool on-board video too...

I've since inserted an e-bay with a great dual-deploy K550 flight... thinking about L now that I've completed my Eggfinder TX.
 
Read through the entire build thread. Looking great! And a nice story to go along with it.

As for cardboard rockets...love em. I like plastic nose cones too. Building a little bit higher performace cardboard rocket right now. 3"/54mm setup. A step down in diameter and up in motor size from my L2 DX-3. FG is overrated, as is epoxy for a LOT of applications. They have their place, but hardly a necessity for a draggy cert flight.

See if you can get us someone to video that flight for you.
 
Thanks! I was checking out your 3"/54mm thread a couple days ago.

I tried a piece of tin flash as a liner for the nose cone shoulder on a whim a couple of years back. Medium CA and poor metal surface prep didn't keep it in place too long. Sounds like you did a better job of it.

See if you can get us someone to video that flight for you.

Hopefully so, I've committed to a 54/852 J615ST for the flight!
 
My LVL2 Rocket is a Cardboard model with Canvas Phenolic Fins. I did my flight to about 5080 feet
and well below Mach 1. However once I get the Deployment charges dialed in and test it …
My next flight will be faster ! If it hits MACH, I will let you all know how it performs.... LOL

I spent a lot of time researching this forum about cardboard and Mach 1.
Even got feed back from Crazy Jim.
 
If it hits MACH, I will let you all know how it performs.... LOL

Please do! I expect complete success. Pics, of course!


An update:
I'm still waiting for this L2 flight, GRITS last year (Nov 2022) the weather wasn't good for this one. Too low of a ceiling on Saturday and too much wind on Sunday. Perhaps the 3rd year will be the charm. I'm hoping to build a low and slow backup rocket in case there is a similar issue, but the progress is less than snail speed...
 
Tim --

I just 'found' your build thread.

Very nice work on "Floyd" -- your thread is chock-full of great building tidbits !

Floyd is a very handsome fella, but does he need a Cricut 'name tag' sticker ? :)

tim-floyd-408491-23908a9b77560f72cb3ece4bc22e45f3.jpeg

Maybe between the two white rings ?

Hmmm ... what color ? What font ? Vertical or horizontal ?

Sitckers are HARD !

Anyhow ... Hoping for fair weather for your L2 flight at Grits !

Please post MORE pictures !

I've set a watch on your thread so I won't miss them.

Thanks for all your work compiling and posting this thread, Tim.

-- kjh

p.s. Kardboard is Kool -- I've got no worries for Floyd with any motor that fits in him !
 
Very nice work on "Floyd" -- your thread is chock-full of great building tidbits !

Floyd is a very handsome fella, but does he need a Cricut 'name tag' sticker ? :)

...

Maybe between the two white rings ?

Hmmm ... what color ? What font ? Vertical or horizontal ?

Sitckers are HARD !

Thanks, my friend!

Yeah, the artistic transformation of tubes and fins escapes me. I can manage a few stripes or other geometric patterns strategically placed. But creating personality is a gift I don't have access to.

If Floyd gets it's name emblazoned, it will with be either the true "Floyd" font:
FloydTheBarberrozeefhks4f9r9zs.jpg

Or something in hard-edged block/angular italics, including "II" and "54" or such, indicating the rebuild.

Placement would likely be on the booster:
As the original rocket was a spartan effort thrown together from scrap with most decisions made from the geometry of the material left on hand, the rocket's theme immediately became variation. It was flown once in the original short, white configuration. It was then extended with the Expediter's payload section, then repainted with it's own payload sections, which varied in a couple of different lengths. I soon realized that Floyd's evolution had led to a sort of modular format. It could be flown in different configurations. Remember electronics mounting systems being built into a payload section, rather than using a removeable/exchangeable altimeter bay?

True to its DNA, Floyd II has already had two different main compartments built, though it's only flown once. The first was the length of tube I had left, in correct Floyd Form. What's there now is already a longer compartment to accommodate a little more room for the recovery system. The original sits aside.

I've already decided a 38mm version with the slightly smaller plywood fins is needed to be complete. Rather than build the entire thing over, it will be the booster alone, with other parts to be exchanged to create the format to be flown on a given day.

So that one should be the one to get the real Floyd-script font pictured, and would need to be on the booster in order for versions to be differentiated.

Unless "removable vinyl" is really removable...

Now that those memories are being revived, the original 2nd, 54 mm booster was branded Floyd54, and I had a thought in mind for a logo that never made it on before the J800/AltAcc incident. So maybe that's what should be done. That 54 logo for this version.

While my fantastic propensity for indecision keeps such things up in the air, I have actually printed a couple of these on waterslide paper to vaguely illustrate the nomenclature's root to those who know:

FloydTheBarberEyes.jpg

Sized to quietly go between the fins.


(Clipped from this image for anyone who doesn't recognize the expression:)
FloydTheBarberoutline.jpg.


...now browsing fonts, of course...

Please post MORE pictures !

Of anything in particular?



p.s. Kardboard is Kool

Hmm... that could be a good sig line. Properly attributed, of course:

"Kardboard is Kool" -Konrad
 
Floyd ... funny thing ... When I first read the name of your rocket, that is who I thought of.

Not the Nirvana song, something more like this: Floyd The Barber Gives A Lesson About Modern Technology

Please post MORE pictures !
Of anything in particular?
Yes !

Flights and Recoveries !!

Especially videos !!!

Good luck with your Level 2, Tim. Here's to clear skys and low wind !!!!

-- kjh( :) I think my next rocket might be called 'Barney Fife', unless you've got dibs :) )

EDIT: p.s. Yes ! find that Floyd font in 'Floyd's Barber Shop' !
 
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wow! an unglassed L3 rocket would have been cool to see!
LOC 7.5 Bruiser EXP with 4" MMT was my L3 on a long burn 4" M motor, no glassed tubes. The flat plate G10 fins however did not hold up to the N1100 motor later in Texas when it went Thru Transonic and then Mach.

Studies on here after the on-board data and video was looked at, the experts who did CFD said it was because of the square shape of the Bruiser fins and a swept shape would have been better.
 
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Where is your Aerospike Nozzle ?

Never found it! The motor lit quickly and started off the rail well. Suddenly kicked the aft end left a bit and sputtered. It made partial thrust aroung the 2nd pic in this sequence, and made a gently slope towards the dirt under partial thrust. Arrow is pointing to the rail for reference.

J615 Sequence.png

Chris said it blew the nozzle, file a warranty claim. And that's just what I found when I got to it.


IMG_0728.JPG

It didn't go high enough to fire the deployment charges. The booster is intact, only the exposed bit of aft MMT was damaged by the motor's inertia. That can probably be cut flush, and re-do the retention clips to straighten that out.

The electronics sled is still good, but the coupler is boogered a little bit on the ends. Everything inside is fine.

A booster upper tube, an 3"x8" coupler and a nosecone is all that will be needed to fly again. I still have the original short payload tube. I just hope it won't be another full year before I can do it!
 
So sorry to hear about that and please don't let it discourage you. Stuff like this happens to the best of us.

Thanks muchos! No lack of optimism here, it's an opportunity to make little changes.

That flame was great, the J615ST will most likely be the motor of choice again next time!
 
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