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9 days left... no word yet from the BATFE?

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Mikus

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Just like the rest of you, I'm crossing my fingers hoping our govt is too busy fighting swine flu and handing out bailouts to continue poking we rocketeers with that sharp stick known as APCP regulation. :neener:

Assuming nothing happens over the next week and a half, how is the sale of APCP going to be handled for motors requiring certification... to people without certification?

How was it done back before BATFE began regulating APCP?

I'm thinking this may only be a small window of opportunity and I'd better get that L1 done before more regulations get handed down. :cheers:

So how do I get my hands on that 1st prohibited motor? What me do now? :D
 

quickburst

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Prior to regulation vendors sold motors on site. Normally customers were asked show proof of age (if there was a question), proof of NAR/TRA membership and current cert level. Flyers were allowed to buy cert motors. Most dealers stuck by these rules. There were exceptions by dealers that were more interested in profit than ethics.

I'd guess responsible dealers will handle business as in the past. Irresponsible dealers will do what ever they wish, as they always have. I'm sure TRA/NAR will publish guidelines on how best to conduct business.

If you are unable to buy onsite I suppose you will need to mail order. I do suggest that you only do business with responsible dealers and ignore the outlaws.

I will be collecting ID from my customers, proof of TRA/NAR membership, and current cert level.

I'm not sure that selling an "M" to Grandma would be illegal. I am sure it would be unethical.
 

WillMarchant

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I will be collecting ID from my customers, proof of TRA/NAR membership, and current cert level.

I'm not sure that selling an "M" to Grandma would be illegal. I am sure it would be unethical.
I believe that the NFPA rules require you to collect that information and supply it to the authorities if requested. And NFPA rules are law in most states.

I believe it is illegal to sell Grandma an M unless she is already level 3 certified, has a level 2 in which case she is allowed to buy an M to certify, or falls under the university/govt exemption.

So endeth the lesson... :roll:
 

quickburst

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I believe that the NFPA rules require you to collect that information and supply it to the authorities if requested. And NFPA rules are law in most states.

I believe it is illegal to sell Grandma an M unless she is already level 3 certified, has a level 2 in which case she is allowed to buy an M to certify, or falls under the university/govt exemption.

So endeth the lesson... :roll:
Good to know Will. For the record ... I was never going to sell Grandma an "M" without proper ID.
 

MysticalRockets

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SHHHHHHHHHH!!!

You know they monitor this board. So shush until the 16th.
 

Mikus

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Hmm, sounds like a trip out to Hearne is in my future. :)

Prior to regulation vendors sold motors on site. Normally customers were asked show proof of age (if there was a question), proof of NAR/TRA membership and current cert level. Flyers were allowed to buy cert motors. Most dealers stuck by these rules. There were exceptions by dealers that were more interested in profit than ethics.

I'd guess responsible dealers will handle business as in the past. Irresponsible dealers will do what ever they wish, as they always have. I'm sure TRA/NAR will publish guidelines on how best to conduct business.

If you are unable to buy onsite I suppose you will need to mail order. I do suggest that you only do business with responsible dealers and ignore the outlaws.

I will be collecting ID from my customers, proof of TRA/NAR membership, and current cert level.

I'm not sure that selling an "M" to Grandma would be illegal. I am sure it would be unethical.
 

Mikus

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Did we forget the smiley emoticon or are you seriously suggesting some BATFE agent is reading this and thinking, "Oh no! Mikus is thinking about delving into HP rocketry and MUST BE STOPPED!" to himself? :eek: :D

Now my wife... I would understand. :bangpan: But not the BATFE.

Besides I have every confidence that should I stroll into any "forbidden thoughts" territory, the mods of this fine establishment would be on me, well... post haste. :jaw:

Me? I'm just trying to get a gameplan together. :cool:

SHHHHHHHHHH!!!

You know they monitor this board. So shush until the 16th.
 

RangerStl

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Well, currently our mind-reading thought police devices are in the shop for re-calibration. I'd say you have a good 36 hour window for "forbidden thoughts".

Just don't publish the thoughts that violate TRF rules on the TRF board. :cyclops:

Hopefully the ATFE's mind-reading, thought police devices are also in the shop. :blush:
 

dwinings

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If the BATF appeals I wouldn't expect them to file until the last day. That's just normal for court proceedings.

Dan
 

Mikus

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Heh heh, not a chance. TRF is pretty much well-known in the rocketry hobby. :bangpan:

At least warn me first, this time. :confused2:

Just don't publish the thoughts that violate TRF rules on the TRF board. :cyclops:

Hopefully the ATFE's mind-reading, thought police devices are also in the shop. :blush:
 

RangerStl

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Sure!

When the flashing blue light on top of your monitor is activated, TRF "Mind-Reading" and "Thought-Policing" are in effect. During that time, infractions will be administered to logged-in members indiscriminately and for no reason. Those thinking "Un-approved Thoughts (tm)" who are not logged in will be summarily banned while they cannot defend themselves.

;)

If you think I'm serious, please continue!

Further, when the yellow light on top of your monitor is steadily lit, all traffic on other boards is being monitored. If we find anything offensive on those "other boards" posted by TRF members, they will be banned from TRF and any other "Non-TRF" board to which they subscribe using our god-like powers. Additionally, permanent infractions and high-voltage electric shocks will be administered to all other TRF members who viewed those offensive posts.

:blush: :D

If you STILL think I'm serious, read on!

When the red light on top of your monitor is lit, all personal differences of opinion between any 2 members may be permanently settled by "Spinning the Mod-Wheel (tm)". The opinionator who loses the "Spin" is thereby declared "Wrong" and will be forever erased from the history of the Internet.

We thank you for your support in making TRF as uncomfortable and restrictive as divinely possible. Remember our motto "You have rights, but we don't care". ;)

Y'all really are good sports. :cheers:
 

quickburst

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Hmm, sounds like a trip out to Hearne is in my future. :)
Please do, we'd love to have you.

We are having a launch this weekend. Saturday (5/9/09) is commercial motor day and Sunday (5/10/09) is research day.
 

MaxQ

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Sure!

When the flashing blue light on top of your monitor is activated, TRF "Mind-Reading" and "Thought-Policing" are in effect. During that time, infractions will be administered to logged-in members indiscriminately and for no reason. Those thinking "Un-approved Thoughts (tm)" who are not logged in will be summarily banned while they cannot defend themselves.

;)

If you think I'm serious, please continue!

Further, when the yellow light on top of your monitor is steadily lit, all traffic on other boards is being monitored. If we find anything offensive on those "other boards" posted by TRF members, they will be banned from TRF and any other "Non-TRF" board to which they subscribe using our god-like powers. Additionally, permanent infractions and high-voltage electric shocks will be administered to all other TRF members who viewed those offensive posts.

:blush: :D

If you STILL think I'm serious, read on!

When the red light on top of your monitor is lit, all personal differences of opinion between any 2 members may be permanently settled by "Spinning the Mod-Wheel (tm)". The opinionator who loses the "Spin" is thereby declared "Wrong" and will be forever erased from the history of the Internet.

We thank you for your support in making TRF as uncomfortable and restrictive as divinely possible. Remember our motto "You have rights, but we don't care". ;)

Y'all really are good sports. :cheers:
"Mind-Reading" ?
"Thought-Policing" ?

DON yer HATS!!!



View attachment Tin signs.bmp
 
Last edited:

Fred22

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Man that is too funny :lol:
:cheers:
Fred:dark:
 

Mikus

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Bwahahaha!!! Good one. :D:D:D

Sure!

When the flashing blue light on top of your monitor is activated, TRF "Mind-Reading" and "Thought-Policing" are in effect. During that time, infractions will be administered to logged-in members indiscriminately and for no reason. Those thinking "Un-approved Thoughts (tm)" who are not logged in will be summarily banned while they cannot defend themselves.

;)

If you think I'm serious, please continue!

Further, when the yellow light on top of your monitor is steadily lit, all traffic on other boards is being monitored. If we find anything offensive on those "other boards" posted by TRF members, they will be banned from TRF and any other "Non-TRF" board to which they subscribe using our god-like powers. Additionally, permanent infractions and high-voltage electric shocks will be administered to all other TRF members who viewed those offensive posts.

:blush: :D

If you STILL think I'm serious, read on!

When the red light on top of your monitor is lit, all personal differences of opinion between any 2 members may be permanently settled by "Spinning the Mod-Wheel (tm)". The opinionator who loses the "Spin" is thereby declared "Wrong" and will be forever erased from the history of the Internet.

We thank you for your support in making TRF as uncomfortable and restrictive as divinely possible. Remember our motto "You have rights, but we don't care". ;)

Y'all really are good sports. :cheers:
 

MysticalRockets

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Yeah, I forgot the smiley.

So here's a few.

:neener: :cyclops: :wave: :headbang: :w:


2 days to go, and still no word. And since the 16th is a Saturday, they would probably have to file tomorrow or not at all.
 

jadebox

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Yeah, I forgot the smiley.

So here's a few.

:neener: :cyclops: :wave: :headbang: :w:


2 days to go, and still no word. And since the 16th is a Saturday, they would probably have to file tomorrow or not at all.
The appeal period is sixty days, not two months. So the deadine is tomorrow, the 15th, not Saturday the 16th.

-- Roger
 

Peartree

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So government office closed for the day at what, three o'clock? Anybody hear anything or do we have to wait for the lawyers to go back to work on Monday?
 

troj

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So government office closed for the day at what, three o'clock? Anybody hear anything or do we have to wait for the lawyers to go back to work on Monday?
We may have to wait until Monday for anything final.

My understanding is the ATF has until midnight tonight (Friday) to file, and thus anything so filed may not show up as filed until next week.

Patience....

-Kevin
 

Len_Lekx

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Unless, of course, it's sixty BUSINESS DAYS to appeal...

If that's the case, they've still got four weeks. (Assuming a five-day work week...) :y:
 

troj

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Unless, of course, it's sixty BUSINESS DAYS to appeal...

If that's the case, they've still got four weeks. (Assuming a five-day work week...) :y:
Nope. Sixty calendar days. So today is the deadline.

But they get until midnight.

-Kevin
 

Ez2cDave

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To All,

At midnight tonight, the time period runs out for the BATFE appeal.

If they file electronically, we may hear nothing "official" until Monday.

However, I believe that part of the process requires a judge to issue a "stay" and that it would have to happen BEFORE the midnight deadline. They also have to "show cause" for the appeal and can't appeal "just because they lost". at least in theory.

I hope that NAR & TRA issue a statement promptly to let us knw, one way or the other !

Dave Fitch
 

Mikus

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May 18th. Time's Up. :wave:

So what's the word??? :caffeine:
 

shreadvector

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Quoting the latest message from Trip to the NAR Section Officers YahooGroup:

"BATFE has until midnight Friday, May 15 to file an appeal (electronically)
against the court judgment that upheld our position in the long-running lawsuit.
We will not know (through legal counsel) until sometime Monday if they in fact
did so. I will send out an announcement on how this turned out Monday evening.

Trip Barber
NAR President"

So, relax until later this evening or tomorrow.
 
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