54mm TRA K altitude attempt rocket for NSL west launch 2023

[Conway Stevens]

Rocket statistics: 54mm minimum diameter. 25 oz before motor with everything in it. Using Mac Performance Rocketry Xrated air frame parts and coupler, fiberglass nose cone, HED, recovery by Spherachutes with ultralight chute. Fins are Mac Performance Rocketry canvas phenolic. Motor is Aerotech K250. electronics are Blue Raven and Featherweight tracker. Flight attempt at Alamosa Colorado over memorial day weekend at the National sport launch. Projected RasAero sims 31 to 32k ft agl. Previous test flight on a different platform that was larger and longer with smaller motor was 27,762.

 

[pugachu]

Good luck!

 

[mike2wander]

 

[Buckeye]

What is the "Xrated" airframe, and is it still canvas phenolic?

 

[Conway Stevens]

What is the "Xrated" airframe, and is it still canvas phenolic?

It's their new line of airframe. It's not canvas phenolic. It's XX phenolic material. Much like you'd see in a higher end Liner. Mike actually posted about it in the Vendor forums. It's pretty tough, very light. Very nice finish.

 

[MClark]

How did it go?

 

[Rocketjunkie]

It's their new line of airframe. It's not canvas phenolic. It's XX phenolic material. Much like you'd see in a higher end Liner. Mike actually posted about it in the Vendor forums. It's pretty tough, very light. Very nice finish.

Careful. Strong but brittle. A rough landing or unexpected impacts in the car will result in a broken rocket.

 

[Conway Stevens]

Careful. Strong but brittle. A rough landing or unexpected impacts in the car will result in a broken rocket.

Actually not to crazy brittle at all I have a video that I took a stick of the stuff and pounded it like a maniac onto my table. Enough that everything else was jumping off the table 5 inches. It didn't break or Crack.

 

[Conway Stevens]

How did it go?

Mark. It was an epic great time. Had lots of fun. I learned a ton. I did not beat the record but did have a really great flight. The data for the flight was close to Mach 3, (2.998) at a altitude of 31,374 ft AGL. I recovered less than a mile away roughly 5,000ft. Winds aloft were 50mph at FL300. Ground winds were 2mph. The current record by Curt Von Delius is 31,643. The record has to be surpassed by 2% to be official. Putting the altitude needed to beat at 32,275 ft. Meaning I need more than 901ft on top of my current best to break the record next rocket is already under design and motors in hand.

It has been a fun epic journey so far. Looking forward to more.

 

[Conway Stevens]

I do have some video and pics to share. Just got home from a long drive last night will post them soon.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Deb Shultz (original LOC) got a couple extra K feet by grinding a small boat tail through the airframe tube and motor casing on her K250 powered rocket (LDRS X), 1991. Try a tail cone closure on the RMS cased K250. Also K250s then had 100 g more propellant and ~150 more N-s.

 

[Conway Stevens]

Deb Shultz (original LOC) got a couple extra K feet by grinding a small boat tail through the airframe tube and motor casing on her K250 powered rocket (LDRS X), 1991. Try a tail cone closure on the RMS cased K250. Also K250s then had 100 g more propellant and ~150 more N-s.

I used a tailcone closure on it. The video in my first post I think shows the tailcone on the built motor.

 

[MClark]

Sounds like a great flight.
Curt is tough to beat.
Most of the records rockets are optimized as well as can be. Just a wiggle out of the tower or a wind shear and not quite enough.
That site is pretty high, many record flights are at Black Rock, 4000’. NSL was higher field elevation.
Let’s go back to Hartsel.

 

[charrington]

Hey Conway, I don't think there is a 2% rule of being higher. https://www.tripoli.org/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=795696&module_id=499469
The only percentage rule I see is that if your rocket is within 10% of the current record, you still are able to claim a spot on the board.

 

[mike2wander]

Conway,
We can't thank you enough for putting our new tube through it's paces. The time and effort that went into your K-record attempt is huge. You should be proud!!

 

[StreuB1]

I used a tailcone closure on it. The video in my first post I think shows the tailcone on the built motor.

Conway, take a look at @rfjustin 's tail cone idea that he has done successfully several times now. It weighs literally NOTHING and will drop maybe an ounce off your loaded mass relative to the tail cone closure.

I tagged him so I am sure he will post pics. Its really simple and takes little special materials. With your build, you're already more than capable.

 

[Conway Stevens]

Sounds like a great flight.
Curt is tough to beat.
Most of the records rockets are optimized as well as can be. Just a wiggle out of the tower or a wind shear and not quite enough.
That site is pretty high, many record flights are at Black Rock, 4000’. NSL was higher field elevation.
Let’s go back to Hartsel.

You are correct! Curt is tough to beat. But my next plan is in action and should get me there. But you never know til you make the attempt if everything worked out like you want it.

Definitely would do Hartsel. Not that far from me. Great place to fly. Just need a big waiver there.

 

[Conway Stevens]

Hey Conway, I don't think there is a 2% rule of being higher. https://www.tripoli.org/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=795696&module_id=499469
The only percentage rule I see is that if your rocket is within 10% of the current record, you still are able to claim a spot on the board.

Not sure where I got the info. But... personally I'd rather smash the record for all its worth.

 

[Conway Stevens]

Conway,
We can't thank you enough for putting our new tube through it's paces. The time and effort that went into your K-record attempt is huge. You should be proud!!

Mike I can't thank you enough for allowing me to represent the products and your work.

Definitely very proud of the attempt.

 

[Conway Stevens]

Conway, take a look at @rfjustin 's tail cone idea that he has done successfully several times now. It weighs literally NOTHING and will drop maybe an ounce off your loaded mass relative to the tail cone closure.

I tagged him so I am sure he will post pics. Its really simple and takes little special materials. With your build, you're already more than capable.

This would be the ones he did on the L1000 motors with fins I think?

 

[Conway Stevens]

Here Is a shot post flight/recovery. At the Aetotech booth with Gary

 

[Conway Stevens]

Recovery pics right at 4900 ft away from the launch site.

 

[rfjustin]

This would be the ones he did on the L1000 motors with fins I think?

Correct.

Since you are using the AT 54mm tailcone closure, not sure what more you can do there.

 

[StreuB1]

Correct.

Since you are using the AT 54mm tailcone closure, not sure what more you can do there.

My thinking was removing some mass. He's almost at the record and on this rocket, saving a single ounce might have some decent affect. Could also thin down the inside the cone as well to drop mass but your version of the cone could be made with a slip fit coupler made from 54mm cardboard MMT thats slit and rejoined and that slides into the standard AT closure. Then secured with a little hot glue, urethane sealant, flexible epoxy, etc. That way you can remove it if need be in a more "sacrificial" manner. Very little aero loading on it so I think it could be considered as a frangible accessory.

 

[tfish]

My thinking was removing some mass. He's almost at the record and on this rocket, saving a single ounce might have some decent affect. Could also thin down the inside the cone as well to drop mass but your version of the cone could be made with a slip fit coupler made from 54mm cardboard MMT thats slit and rejoined and that slides into the standard AT closure. Then secured with a little hot glue, urethane sealant, flexible epoxy, etc. That way you can remove it if need be in a more "sacrificial" manner. Very little aero loading on it so I think it could be considered as a frangible accessory.

I wonder what @Conway Stevens on the pad weight is and what his sims calls out for optimal weight? It might not be a weight issue. It might be a CD issue.

Back in 2011 I was given a Kestrel rocket kit. I did some basic modifications and flew it in the Altitude event at XPRS. I came in 2nd place with a flight to 29,456; Some guy named Curt von Delius.

Most of Curt's record flights have taken many attempts to get 'clean' flights, good altitudes and a recovered rockets.

Tony

 

[JimJarvis50]

Mark. It was an epic great time. Had lots of fun. I learned a ton. I did not beat the record but did have a really great flight. The data for the flight was close to Mach 3, (2.998) at a altitude of 31,374 ft AGL. I recovered less than a mile away roughly 5,000ft. Winds aloft were 50mph at FL300. Ground winds were 2mph. The current record by Curt Von Delius is 31,643. The record has to be surpassed by 2% to be official. Putting the altitude needed to beat at 32,275 ft. Meaning I need more than 901ft on top of my current best to break the record next rocket is already under design and motors in hand.

It has been a fun epic journey so far. Looking forward to more.

Conway,

The current record is not held by Curt, regardless of what the Tripoli site says. His flight did not have gps verification of the altitude, which is required by the Tripoli rules for the altitudes involved. That record was recinded by Tripoli, and email confirmation of that from Tom Rouse, who was the Tripoli records administrator at the time, is attached. If you reached 31,374 feet, and have gps confirming that altitude, then you have the record. Congratulations!

Jim

 

[Conway Stevens]

I wonder what @Conway Stevens on the pad weight is and what his sims calls out for optimal weight? It might not be a weight issue. It might be a CD issue.

Back in 2011 I was given a Kestrel rocket kit. I did some basic modifications and flew it in the Altitude event at XPRS. I came in 2nd place with a flight to 29,456; Some guy named Curt von Delius.

Most of Curt's record flights have taken many attempts to get 'clean' flights, good altitudes and a recovered rockets.

Tony

@tfish. Tony, my rocket weight before motor was 25oz. Pad weight with motor 104 oz(6lbs 8 oz) burn out weight 40oz. The RasAero sims were around 32k. I have some changes already made. Lots learned from the flight. Working towards another attempt. I have had several flights practice leading up to this flight. It's been a fun process. More fun to come with a few different motor levels.

 

[Conway Stevens]

Conway,

The current record is not held by Curt, regardless of what the Tripoli site says. His flight did not have gps verification of the altitude, which is required by the Tripoli rules for the altitudes involved. That record was recinded by Tripoli, and email confirmation of that from Tom Rouse, who was the Tripoli records administrator at the time, is attached. If you reached 31,374 feet, and have gps confirming that altitude, then you have the record. Congratulations!

Jim

@JimJarvis50 Jim that's interesting. I had no idea. Everything there was for information lead me to fully believe Curt was the record holder and had the 31,672 ft. That's what's listed and what I took at face value. What is the current record? I will have to look to see if I kept it all. After coming up short I discarded the paper forms my witness and RSO filled out for all the records submissions I'm pretty sure the data has been overwritten by another flight on that GPS unit. Will do some looking to see what I have. After feeling I came up short I felt my data wasn't important anymore and put my mind towards my next attempt.

Makes me rather sad now.

 

[kjhambrick]

Conway --

Is the Blue Raven Data still in your Phone ?

Reading the email thread that Jim Jarvis posted, maybe that would be sufficient because there was a GPS Unit onboard whether or not the data from the GPS is recoverable ?

-- kjh

 

[Conway Stevens]

Conway --

Is the Blue Raven Data still in your Phone ?

Reading the email thread that Jim Jarvis posted, maybe that would be sufficient because there was a GPS Unit onboard whether or not the data from the GPS is recoverable ?

-- kjh

Technically the rules state that GPS data above 30k msl must be used. I'm well above that as the launch site is 7600 msl plus my 31k ft agl. I'm a stickler for the rules personally. It's integrity in the event. I'm sure I have Blue Raven data. But need the gps data. I didn't think anything of it because where I thought the record was based on the TRA site so i didnt keep it. It's honestly ok. I'm already in the works on a new project for the next flight. I really would like to break the 32k mark.