4" 3:1 ogive FG nose cone.....who?

[StreuB1]

Looking for a 4" 3:1 ogive nose cone for a project and am not sure who to go to, or who to trust for that matter.

Madcow, Composite Warehouse, and Performance Hobbies, all show them on their website.

It appears that all of them show them as "available" or "in stock" but I have reservations, as many would imagine.


It seems that Madcow is likely the most "reliable"(?) but its a molded cone and not a filament wound cone, which the latter is what I would prefer. CW and PH both market FW cones but we know the issue with CW and I have no experience with PH.


Does anyone out there have any advice or some suggestions based on actual experience??

Thank you in advance!!

 

[Titan II]

This is what I do....

 

[StreuB1]

This is what I do....

In all seriousness. I can call all I want, but if one of the companies doesn't answer the phone, and the other is known to lie through their teeth about their availability and delivery. I prefer to ask the community their opinion(s) and personal advice given a similar situation.


The saying that no question is dumb and all questions are free, isn't always viewed as such by others.

 

[Titan II]

In all seriousness, I did answer based on personal experience. I have called two of the three on several occasions with excellent response. If you already made up your mind about CW, why ask? I have found him to be a solid and reliable source. However, given your negativistic comments without personnel experience, I would hope he does not give you the time of day.

 

[jmasterj]

For whatever it's worth, I ordered just a nose cone from CW several months ago and got in in a couple weeks, much faster than I expected.

 

[Banzai88]

PH stuff is, by and large, CW sourced.

 

[StreuB1]

In all seriousness, I did answer based on personal experience. I have called two of the three on several occasions with excellent response. If you already made up your mind about CW, why ask? I have found him to be a solid and reliable source. However, given your negativistic comments without personnel experience, I would hope he does not give you the time of day.

I haven't made up my mind about anything. I need an item, I am asking for opinions and experience. You posted a picture of a telephone. I am not sure what else to say. I posted a picture in response that was supposed to be funny. I did not attribute anything I said to any company or person.

All I want is a nose cone and would appreciate peoples thoughts, not drama.

 

[StreuB1]

For whatever it's worth, I ordered just a nose cone from CW several months ago and got in in a couple weeks, much faster than I expected.

This is the type of response I was looking for. Thank you for your experience.

 

[StreuB1]

PH stuff is, by and large, CW sourced.

Thank you as well for the information. I would not have known that otherwise so I appreciate it! I know the stuff that Curtis makes is very good; the NC and airframe on my Demon 150 are his old stuff that Tim used to sell. I just need to get ahold of someone to see if he has the NC or if he orders it when he gets an order.

 

[rharshberger]

For whatever it's worth, I ordered just a nose cone from CW several months ago and got in in a couple weeks, much faster than I expected.

In other words...you ACTUALLY got it......

 

[mtnmanak]

Curtis is the only one out there right now (that I am aware of) making 4" 3:1 Ogive FW FG NCs. Kenny at PH sources his 4" 3:1 nosecones from Curtis.

I just need to get ahold of someone to see if he has the NC or if he orders it when he gets an order.

Curtis manufactures the products, he doesn't order them. It is why he is so far behind all the time. He takes a lot more orders than his shop can handle. If he happens to have the product on hand, you are in good shape. If he has to make a new one, your order goes in the queue until he is doing a run of that particular nosecone. Nosecones tend to be the thing that slows him down the most. He usually has about 4 people working for him in the shop and they can knock out straight tubing and cut fins very quickly, but nosecones take them a long time to make. Curtis also told me last week he is having trouble sourcing the aluminum nosecone tips lately - the aluminum shortage / increased price is catching up all over the place.

I will see Kenny from PH today, I will ask him if he has one of the 3:1 Nosecones on hand.

 

[krislhull]

I have placed a few orders with CW over the past few months for various parts, including a couple of nosecones, and received said parts a week after each order was placed. I would not hesitate to order from him again based on my experience.

 

[StreuB1]

Curtis is the only one out there right now (that I am aware of) making 4" 3:1 Ogive FW FG NCs. Kenny at PH sources his 4" 3:1 nosecones from Curtis.



Curtis manufactures the products, he doesn't order them. It is why he is so far behind all the time. He takes a lot more orders than his shop can handle. If he happens to have the product on hand, you are in good shape. If he has to make a new one, your order goes in the queue until he is doing a run of that particular nosecone. Nosecones tend to be the thing that slows him down the most. He usually has about 4 people working for him in the shop and they can knock out straight tubing and cut fins very quickly, but nosecones take them a long time to make. Curtis also told me last week he is having trouble sourcing the aluminum nosecone tips lately - the aluminum shortage / increased price is catching up all over the place.

I will see Kenny from PH today, I will ask him if he has one of the 3:1 Nosecones on hand.

Thank you for some explanation and some background and also thank you for reaching out to Kenny in person. I emailed him last night and he replied that he was going to check as well. I was unware that he buys the cone from Curtis and if he doesn't have it and just buys it from Curtis, and its the same price, and I can get a piece of airframe from Curtis as well, its hard to decide who to buy from! lol

I will say that I should apologize ( @Titan II ) for hastily condemning people that I have not done business with myself, it is hard though when someone has a reputation that is so public. I still though should not do that and should have left that out of my original post, it was not relevant to the question(s) I was asking. I will leave them in place though as I don't cover up my mistakes, I own them.

Thank you to Kris as well for leaving your comment on your experiences, they are appreciated.

 

[cwbullet]

Why fiberglass? I am returning from Spaceport and some of the clubs did miracles with 3D printing.

 

[rfjustin]

Looking for a 4" 3:1 ogive nose cone for a project and am not sure who to go to, or who to trust for that matter.

Madcow, Composite Warehouse, and Performance Hobbies, all show them on their website.

It appears that all of them show them as "available" or "in stock" but I have reservations, as many would imagine.


It seems that Madcow is likely the most "reliable"(?) but its a molded cone and not a filament wound cone, which the latter is what I would prefer. CW and PH both market FW cones but we know the issue with CW and I have no experience with PH.


Does anyone out there have any advice or some suggestions based on actual experience??

Thank you in advance!!

I've placed 12 orders with CT/CW, no issues to speak of. Call me if you want to chat about it more...

 

[mtnmanak]

Thank you for some explanation and some background and also thank you for reaching out to Kenny in person. I emailed him last night and he replied that he was going to check as well. I was unware that he buys the cone from Curtis and if he doesn't have it and just buys it from Curtis, and its the same price, and I can get a piece of airframe from Curtis as well, its hard to decide who to buy from! lol

I will say that I should apologize ( @Titan II ) for hastily condemning people that I have not done business with myself, it is hard though when someone has a reputation that is so public. I still though should not do that and should have left that out of my original post, it was not relevant to the question(s) I was asking. I will leave them in place though as I don't cover up my mistakes, I own them.

Thank you to Kris as well for leaving your comment on your experiences, they are appreciated.

No worries, I talked to Kenny today and he said he has some of the 3:1 nosecones on hand and, if you order one, he will make sure he ships it out this week. FYI

 

[StreuB1]

No worries, I talked to Kenny today and he said he has some of the 3:1 nosecones on hand and, if you order one, he will make sure he ships it out this week. FYI

Thank you, I do appreciate you doing that for me.

I have an order into him for the cone; for a small and fun project that should be pretty darn awesome.

Much appreciated to all that posted and sorry to cause any drama, it was not intentional. Some of us struggle with social interaction, I happen to be one of those and what might seem socially obvious to some, is oblivious to others. Trust me, it sucks, and makes for a rather lonely world.

 

[StreuB1]

Why fiberglass? I am returning from Spaceport and some of the clubs did miracles with 3D printing.

Its funny you ask. Given what I do for a living, you would think something like that would be my first go-to. One of the big reasons is that I do not own a 3D printer! I also don't need to add another piece of technology to my life, at this time at least.

I also am not 100% sold on how a 3D printed part would perform on this project. FG is extraordinarily robust where as 3D printing can be, it also has its areas where it is not as robust and you need to trade fill and cross-section for ultimate strength. Another is impact resistance, where a long fiber reinforced composite has enormous compressive and hoop strength to where it can shake off extreme impacts where a 3D print likely would not without being something exotic.

 

[Hobie1dog]

I also am not 100% sold on how a 3D printed part would perform on this project. FG is extraordinarily robust where as 3D printing can be, it also has its areas where it is not as robust and you need to trade fill and cross-section for ultimate strength. Another is impact resistance, where a long fiber reinforced composite has enormous compressive and hoop strength to where it can shake off extreme impacts where a 3D print likely would not without being something exotic.

When I got the 3D nose cone with my SBR Diablo kit, the instructions said you needed to coat the inside and outside with finishing resin/thinned epoxy as the NC was brittle in nature. It took a lot of work to get it smooth but turned out great.

 

[cwbullet]

I also am not 100% sold on how a 3D printed part would perform on this project. FG is extraordinarily robust where as 3D printing can be, it also has its areas where it is not as robust and you need to trade fill and cross-section for ultimate strength. Another is impact resistance, where a long fiber reinforced composite has enormous compressive and hoop strength to where it can shake off extreme impacts where a 3D print likely would not without being something exotic.

There are plenty of projects at Spaceport that have shown that a rocket with a 3d Printed nose cone and tail cone can take Mach +. Some flew to 30K. The key is the filament and infill. My team has PETG at 25% on all bulkheads and Centering rings. It flew to 900mph. No issue. I would have chosen PC Blend or Nylon with CF but they did just fine.

 

[mtnmanak]

There are plenty of projects at Spaceport that have shown that a rocket with a 3d Printed nose cone and tail cone can take Mach +. Some flew to 30K. The key is the filament and infill. My team has PETG at 25% on all bulkheads and Centering rings. It flew to 900mph. No issue. I would have chosen PC Blend or Nylon with CF but they did just fine.

I know this is a bit off-thread and we have a forum for it, but I have found the prospect of getting into 3D printing intimidating. This may sound strange coming from someone that loves building things, is comfortable in CAD, and does a lot of CNC work, but the options for printers and materials seem overwhelming and confusing. I know if I just bit the bullet and jumped into it, I would end up loving it and embracing it, but every time I sit down to look at the options for printers alone, I end up with 30 tabs open in my browser and then just never hit the "buy" button on any of them. And then another year goes by and I am still not in the 3D printing crowd.

 

[George L]

Its funny you ask. Given what I do for a living, you would think something like that would be my first go-to. One of the big reasons is that I do not own a 3D printer! I also don't need to add another piece of technology to my life, at this time at least.

I also am not 100% sold on how a 3D printed part would perform on this project. FG is extraordinarily robust where as 3D printing can be, it also has its areas where it is not as robust and you need to trade fill and cross-section for ultimate strength. Another is impact resistance, where a long fiber reinforced composite has enormous compressive and hoop strength to where it can shake off extreme impacts where a 3D print likely would not without being something exotic.

3D printed nosecones could also be extremely robust if designed correctly since the technology basically allows using variable structures where needed to improve strength. Even with very common materials such as PLA, ABS, PETG or Nylon the parts could take some abuse, while filaments with glass fiber or carbon fiber are even stronger. I've had 3D printed Nylon PA6 glass fiber parts come in ballistic at 150ft/s and still survive impact on hard ice, so anything with a reasonable descent rate and a chute should do ok.

That said, if the rocket is designed for long sustained flight above mach then heating and softening of 3D printed nosecones would definitely be a much bigger issue than impact strength on non-exotic materials.

 

[Hobie1dog]

3D printed nosecones could also be extremely robust if designed correctly since the technology basically allows using variable structures where needed to improve strength. Even with very common materials such as PLA, ABS, PETG or Nylon the parts could take some abuse, while filaments with glass fiber or carbon fiber are even stronger. I've had 3D printed Nylon PA6 glass fiber parts come in ballistic at 150ft/s and still survive impact on hard ice, so anything with a reasonable descent rate and a chute should do ok.

That said, if the rocket is designed for long sustained flight above mach then heating and softening of 3D printed nosecones would definitely be a much bigger issue than impact strength on non-exotic materials.

George

 

[sharkbait]

George

If you order from Curtis on Black Friday, expect to wait for months because he gets completely bombarded with orders and it’s just impossible to het them all out in 2 weeks, this time of year he can get things out the door very quickly

 

[StreuB1]

If you order from Curtis on Black Friday, expect to wait for months because he gets completely bombarded with orders and it’s just impossible to het them all out in 2 weeks, this time of year he can get things out the door very quickly

Everyone in this hobby should know by now that if you place an order on BF or in and around that day, you will not get your order (from anyone really) till late winter or knocking on the spring season. Tim and some others tell people that if their ears are bleeding out and they need the stuff early, then to let them know. By and large though, everyone should know that those orders are placed with the understanding that you are going to wait AT LEAST 3 months till you can even begin sending a "status check" email. So, I would not knock on any vendor for that.

 

[sharkbait]

Everyone in this hobby should know by now that if you place an order on BF or in and around that day, you will not get your order (from anyone really) till late winter or knocking on the spring season. Tim and some others tell people that if their ears are bleeding out and they need the stuff early, then to let them know. By and large though, everyone should know that those orders are placed with the understanding that you are going to wait AT LEAST 3 months till you can even begin sending a "status check" email. So, I would not knock on any vendor for that.

I am not knocking on him, just saying that every year at BF time there are long waits and lots of people posting its been a long time where’s my order, I only have a couple days left and then no pay pal dispute, I called no answer, ect ect. This was to just say CW is swamped at BF time and like you said, so is Tim and most everyone else and they get things out the door as fast as they can but it’s going to a long time to get them all out, so don’t judge them solely on all the posts you read here at that time of year. Point being that typically this time of year most orders will go out the door within a week or two.

 

[Hobie1dog]

I'm still trying to figure out what shape this one is:

 

[StreuB1]

I'm still trying to figure out what shape this one is:

Looks like a tangent ogive with a short L/D ratio of around 2:1 to 2.5:1 with a rounded tip.