3" Punisher HED Recovery Options

[EBurg]

I think my 3" Punisher is my favorite rocket right now. Looks great and can launch on a large variety of engines. The only thing I don't like about it packing the nose cone with the main chute. I haven't had a problem with the parachute deploying, but it seems like I'm cramming it in too hard to make it fit. I'm using a top flight 42" x-type and a 12" nomex blanket.

I'm debating about spending the money on a fruity chute just to get it to pack with a little more space but hoping there's another option out there.

What are others using?

 

[mikec]

What are others using?

I use a standard TFR PAR-45 in mine, with a TFR protector and fairly thin kevlar shock cord (I think it's 1/8th inch.) With a little care in folding I haven't had any problems.

 

[Bat-mite]

I think my 3" Punisher is my favorite rocket right now. Looks great and can launch on a large variety of engines. The only thing I don't like about it packing the nose cone with the main chute. I haven't had a problem with the parachute deploying, but it seems like I'm cramming it in too hard to make it fit. I'm using a top flight 42" x-type and a 12" nomex blanket.

I'm debating about spending the money on a fruity chute just to get it to pack with a little more space but hoping there's another option out there.

What are others using?

Are you trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist?

 

[tim cubbedge]

I use a standard TFR PAR-45 in mine, with a TFR protector and fairly thin kevlar shock cord (I think it's 1/8th inch.) With a little care in folding I haven't had any problems.

That is exactly what I use too except I think my kevlar is 1/4".

 

[Bat-mite]

I can fit a 25' 3/16 Kevlar harness, TFR PAR45, and a 12" X 12" Nomex sheet in my 3" Formula 75 NC. Coupler has switch band. Three #2-56 pins in each half of coupler. 0.7g for the main, 1.3g for the drogue.

 

[crossfire]

I guess if you want to send that much extra money for a Fruity Chute its up to you. But with the Punisher 3 there is no need for it.

 

[Kallahan11]

If you trust your electronics just swap sides with the drogue and main and leave the motor charge out. Just note your CG will move back with the bigger chute below the nosecone.

 

[markkoelsch]

Order a Top Flight Thin Mill- this will shrink the chute volume a bit.

 

[crossfire]

I wouldn't leave out the motor ejection. This year at MMWP launch I flew my MC ARG58 rocket. The electronics check out fine on the pad. If not for the motor ejection the rocket would have come in ballistic. The altimeter failed to fire both main and drogue charges. The field was very soft so rocket had no damage. Yes a TM chute from Preston at TFRLLC will pack up nice for HED.

 

[stealth6]

For what it's worth: I typically oversize chutes a fair bit, due to hard landing surfaces (no cushy grass landings in my range!). That said, I used a 36" Fruity Chute in my 3" Punisher, which was more than enough. It is one tough rocket. Yes, it was something of a tight fit to pack, but certainly doable. As long as you are not landing on hard/dry desert lakebeds, I would imagine a smaller chute (which would pack with no problem) would be just fine.

s6

 

[tim cubbedge]

I wouldn't leave out the motor ejection.

That really depends on what motor you use. Too short a delay can be bad & some motors don't even have ejection charges!

 

[jeff2space]

I've only flown my 3" Punisher once so far but I used a 36" TFR with 12x12 Nomex with no issues.

 

[OverTheTop]

Not sure about your rocket/chute combination, but I have really taken a liking to using deployment bags in recent flights. They make packing so much easier and just seem to work well. I generally just stuff the chute quite tightly in and it pulls out really easily.

 

[blackjack2564]

I think my 3" Punisher is my favorite rocket right now. Looks great and can launch on a large variety of engines. The only thing I don't like about it packing the nose cone with the main chute. I haven't had a problem with the parachute deploying, but it seems like I'm cramming it in too hard to make it fit. I'm using a top flight 42" x-type and a 12" nomex blanket.

I'm so glad you like the design. It was & still is ahead of it's time. Here are some links from the "original" prototype build thread addressing all issues.

I used both a 52 in X-chute made by Topflight and their standard 48 in version. Along with 15ft of 1/4in kevlar and a 12in nomex I never had any issues with "getting" it all in.
Careful folding and packing techniques along with "rolling" it into the burrito are what's needed. The cord is first ribbon folded and placed in front of the chute.
This occupies the small space in front of chute in the tip. You don't realize how much space is in there & perfect place for cordage. Also helps to "roll" the chute in burrito so it's tapered a bit to fit in the cone better than just a normal roll and stuff.
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...ot-PUNISHER-quot-build!&p=1397563#post1397563

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...ot-PUNISHER-quot-build!&p=1393818#post1393818

I can prepare for flight with a perfect fit & no need to stuff anything in, just practice loading up, until things are a nice smooth fit.:smile:

This rocket was designed to be a high end performer. No wasted space what so ever, and requires better than average skills to "get it just right". But when all is right in La-La land, the flights and altitudes achievable with ALL sizes of motors is pretty darn cool.

Have fun and enjoy flying your Punisher!

Edit:
was looking at those posts and realized over time I made a couple of updates. First I went back and changed the eyebolt to one that's short and hugs the BP. Added another 1inch of space, which is a lot for this.

I have also switched out the aluminum BP's for G-10 after I started using GPS on bottom side of Av-bay sled.

REMEMBER A 12-15inch DROGUE is a MUST in this rocket to prevent stream lining during decent phase of deploy before main.

 

[MWC]

I am finally building my punisher 3. Milling a custom sled with minimal metal. Thanks for the review CJ.

 

[soopirV]

I'm so glad you like the design. It was & still is ahead of it's time. Here are some links from the "original" prototype build thread addressing all issues.

I used both a 52 in X-chute made by Topflight and their standard 48 in version. Along with 15ft of 1/4in kevlar and a 12in nomex I never had any issues with "getting" it all in.
Careful folding and packing techniques along with "rolling" it into the burrito are what's needed. The cord is first ribbon folded and placed in front of the chute.
This occupies the small space in front of chute in the tip. You don't realize how much space is in there & perfect place for cordage. Also helps to "roll" the chute in burrito so it's tapered a bit to fit in the cone better than just a normal roll and stuff.
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...ot-PUNISHER-quot-build!&p=1397563#post1397563

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...ot-PUNISHER-quot-build!&p=1393818#post1393818

I can prepare for flight with a perfect fit & no need to stuff anything in, just practice loading up, until things are a nice smooth fit.:smile:

This rocket was designed to be a high end performer. No wasted space what so ever, and requires better than average skills to "get it just right". But when all is right in La-La land, the flights and altitudes achievable with ALL sizes of motors is pretty darn cool.

Have fun and enjoy flying your Punisher!

Edit:
was looking at those posts and realized over time I made a couple of updates. First I went back and changed the eyebolt to one that's short and hugs the BP. Added another 1inch of space, which is a lot for this.

I have also switched out the aluminum BP's for G-10 after I started using GPS on bottom side of Av-bay sled.

REMEMBER A 12-15inch DROGUE is a MUST in this rocket to prevent stream lining during decent phase of deploy before main.

Can you explain or show photos of this streamlining? I read the links you provided too, and it sounds like things are such low drag, that they orient into the slip stream and fall relatively unimpeded, is that true?

 

[blackjack2564]

Can you explain or show photos of this streamlining? I read the links you provided too, and it sounds like things are such low drag, that they orient into the slip stream and fall relatively unimpeded, is that true?

Yes.


Basically even though the NC pops off at apogee, the fincan will continue down in ballistic profile or aerodynamically stable, with the NC dragging behind.

Like this: rocket coming in ballistic with out a NC. Not flopping about like a normal dual deploy where you "break" the stability at apogee when parts separate.

This may/maynot happen flying small 38's but with large ones and most 54's it will happen without a drogue.

 

[mikec]

This may/maynot happen flying small 38's but with large ones and most 54's it will happen without a drogue.

I don't want to disagree with the designer, but I've flown my Punisher 3 drogueless on motors up to a 4G 54mm and I've never seen this happen. Maybe the protector I have for the nylon apogee shock cord is large enough to prevent it or something.

 

[tim cubbedge]

I don't want to disagree with the designer, but I've flown my Punisher 3 drogueless on motors up to a 4G 54mm and I've never seen this happen. Maybe the protector I have for the nylon apogee shock cord is large enough to prevent it or something.

I flew mine once without a drogue and it was coming in at +100fps till main deployed.

 

[blackjack2564]

I don't want to disagree with the designer, but I've flown my Punisher 3 drogueless on motors up to a 4G 54mm and I've never seen this happen. Maybe the protector I have for the nylon apogee shock cord is large enough to prevent it or something.

Ya now..... I should know better by now....Never make blanket statements. Should have said....use of drogue is HIGHLY recommended!...lol

I should have said the odds are against you if drogue is not used. I have seen many "hot" descents without the drogue and one where main stripped due to speed.

Using a drogue, you will "usually" find that where ever apogee occurs, the fincan will hang down dead straight,falling at a fairly rapid rate. Not much drift unless windier conditions.
Normally a rocket will weather cock [rainbow] into the wind and drift back towards the pad after deployment.
Most flights I have witnessed, the darn thing will head a bit into wind during coast, but fall straight down after deploy.

You can really fine tune Punishers of all sizes by tweeking various components.

 

[mikec]

Should have said....use of drogue is HIGHLY recommended!...lol

Don't disagree with this. I went back and looked at my logs and the average descent rate of mine drogueless with a fairly large piece of Nomex is about 67 fps, a bit on the high side of what I'd prefer.

Awesome design. This is the one I turn to for a nice flight.

 

[EBurg]

Thanks everybody for your input - this is extremely helpful. My takeaway is that I have the right set up for harness and parachute. I packed it again removing the large quick link and it packed much better! I'll be downsizing that and the eyebolt and I think I may even like this thing more.... Now to plan for the 4" build!
Eric