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2nd bad can of Rustoleum 2X

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blackjack2564

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The problem with 2x gloss is titanium dioxide [and VOC's]. This is what gives white it's white.
It's in many paints as a binder for other tints. But with white it's the only one.
The difference between Flat...Semi and gloss is the grind of Titanium.

In theory Ti is ground like small plates [fish scales] as it dries they overlay each other bonding together. The smaller they are, the tighter they bond overlapping, giving a glossier finish.

Think of sandpaper and difference between 100 grit and 600 grit. one is much finer grit than the other.

Same for paints. Flat is heavier grind....high gloss is the finest .

Back to the issue, now that you know how it works. There is a special high gloss paper used for testing. I called Sherwin Williams who makes Krlylon and spoke with a chemist in research. Sprayed 2x white gloss on said paper sent it in for analysis.

He called back explaining the above. The problem is Ti getting into cans that is not ground enough so the finish looks like sand in it OR the cans have been exposed to below freezing and the solids which settle in bottom have aa reaction crystalizing the Ti . Same results when sprayed. U shake the can clumps of crystallized Ti don't break up enough and us end up with sand finish.

He took batch numbers off my cans and tracked the shipping. My cans sat overnight in a truckstop .that night Atlanta had freezing condition so the paint went bad.
You may keep it in ideal conditions, but where it's been stored and during shipping, before the stores get it.....who knows.
Gloss white has the highest content of Ti so it reacts the worst....now u know "the rest of the story"!

I used to do warrant work for SW dealing with all types of faulty coatings, so I knew what to do/call to get to the bottom of it. :)

And yes its due to reformulation and VOc's. The industrial brand is exempt from EPA and uses old school liquids less prone to freezing issues compared to the cheaper consumer brand.
I'm not defending SWP just letting other know there is a real issue with white and others loaded with Ti.

Other brands may use different methods, and have zero, or fewer issues. Krylov is sold at discount outlets and as such let the 'buyer be ware'.


PS Now I only buy it during spring and summer for use later, since doing this no issues with whites.
 
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SDramstad

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I had all of those problems before switching to Duplicolor lacquer. Still got the occasional bad spray can though. Finally bought a Paasche HVLP touchup paint gun and am using it with Duplicolor paints in the quart cans. Its a bit more work cleaning the gun but the results are well worth it. The lacquer doesnt crinkle and it dries fast and is not sticky afterwards. Recoat anytime. Its worth the investment.


 

David Schwantz

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Carb cleaner is great to clean your gun. Pressurized and cuts anything other than latex or water base.
 

SDramstad

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Been using lacquer thinner and so far, so good. Will keep it in mind for later if it starts to get gunked up.
Thinking of getting a second gun strictly for clear coat.
 

stantonjtroy

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I had all of those problems before switching to Duplicolor lacquer. Still got the occasional bad spray can though. Finally bought a Paasche HVLP touchup paint gun and am using it with Duplicolor paints in the quart cans. Its a bit more work cleaning the gun but the results are well worth it. The lacquer doesnt crinkle and it dries fast and is not sticky afterwards. Recoat anytime.
Second for Duplicolor Paint Shop Paints. Short of HS Urethane's, I swear by Paint Shop. I have over half of my flee painted with it, Much of it white, and no problems.
 

neil_w

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FWIW I've had very good luck with Rusto 2x so far.

Gloss white has the highest content of Ti so it reacts the worst....now u know "the rest of the story"!
I'm getting more and more tempted to switch to semi-gloss, for (perhaps) slightly reduced chance of problems.

PS Now I only buy it during spring and summer for use later, since doing this no issues with whites.
Interesting. I guess I should restock ASAP before winter hits.
 

DaveinMI

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Interesting thread. I've use a lot of rusto 2x with no problems for a lot of different projects besides rockets. It has become my go-to paint the last couple years. Maybe I'm just lucky though.:)
 

SkyFire

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I have a fair amount of spray painting equipment; HVLP gun, touch up gun, 2-Iwata airbrushes and have sprayed enamel, lacquer, epoxy, latex, etc.
Decided to be lazy and paint my first HPR with Rusto 2X. It seems to me that this paint works well when warm. Luckily I live in Arizona! Used 2X primer; grey for first coat then white for 2nd coat. Wet sanded primer with 400 grit first and 400 then 600 on final coat.
Used 2X high gloss black and white. Three light coats of each. Found using Rusto Comfort Grip very useful.
Only problem I had was one run on a fin (my fault). After a few days drying it sanded easily and then re-painted with no issue.
Rattle cans need to be shaken a lot; minimum 2 minutes at first then frequently while painting. They have a lot of solvents; the reason light coats are important and also the reason to follow guidelines for subsequent coats.
I paint giant scale RC warbirds with Behr exterior latex. Costs $3 for 1/2 pint and Home Depot will color match samples for free. It works fantastic!
For my next HPR I'm going to try Duplicolor Metalcast paint. Read that it's tricky to work with and very light coats are critical.
Here's a picture of my Madcow Black Brant II painted with Rusto 2X and a picture of my FW-190 painted with latex.
Rocket.jpg
Sist FW-190.jpg
 
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dpower

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I use regular Rustoleum Enamel (now called "Rustoleum Protective Enamel), works great. Don't know what the deal is with 2X, but since the regular enamel works so well, why change? Occasionally, a nozzle will clog, I just replace it. Rustoleum will send you a bunch if you ask nicely.

Of course, I still use lacquer sometimes, either old-formula Krylon, Dupli-Color, or Testors. For scale military colors, Tamiya has a the best selection I've found, so many shades of green! For primer, *always* Dupli-Color or 3M Bondo.
 

Back_at_it

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I used Rustoleum for years with great results. About two years ago something changed. I started running into issues with cracking, crinkling, poor adhesion and a couple of instances where the paint wouldn't dry even when left for several days.

My process never changed, Paints are stored indoors. Paint and the item to be painted are both warm to the touch. If it was warm outside I'd set everything in the sun for a while to let it warm up. If it was below 80F I'd warm the paint can in warm water and use a hair dryer to warm the item being painted. Paints were shaken for at least a couple of minutes, Usually more. Always used light coats and stuck to the recoat windows. If I couldn't apply the next coat within 15 mins. I waited at least a week.

After fighting this for almost a year and buying replacement can of paint, I finally gave up and threw all my Rustoleum in the trash. I switched to Krylon for most and Duplicolor for the items where I wanted a special color or some type of metallic.

I had a Phoenix that I put together and painted with normal Rustoleum white on a warm summer day. Did two light coats about 15 mins. apart then one medium coat. Left the rocket in a warm shop for 24 hrs. Thinking it was dry the next day I grabbed it and the paint was still wet. I left it sit for several more days and it never cured. The paint remained soft and had a slick almost oily feel to it. I left it sit for weeks before I decided to start scrapping it off and stated over.

I don't know what changed with them but I won't even consider their products for the most basic of projects.
 

SkyFire

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Rustoleum changed their formula a few years ago to be in compliance with new EPA guidelines regarding lower VOC solvents. Paint does seem to take a long time to dry. Temperature and humidity are factors in curing and results.
 

dpower

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I used Rustoleum for years with great results. About two years ago something changed. I started running into issues with cracking, crinkling, poor adhesion and a couple of instances where the paint wouldn't dry even when left for several days.

My process never changed, Paints are stored indoors. Paint and the item to be painted are both warm to the touch. If it was warm outside I'd set everything in the sun for a while to let it warm up. If it was below 80F I'd warm the paint can in warm water and use a hair dryer to warm the item being painted. Paints were shaken for at least a couple of minutes, Usually more. Always used light coats and stuck to the recoat windows. If I couldn't apply the next coat within 15 mins. I waited at least a week.

After fighting this for almost a year and buying replacement can of paint, I finally gave up and threw all my Rustoleum in the trash. I switched to Krylon for most and Duplicolor for the items where I wanted a special color or some type of metallic.

I had a Phoenix that I put together and painted with normal Rustoleum white on a warm summer day. Did two light coats about 15 mins. apart then one medium coat. Left the rocket in a warm shop for 24 hrs. Thinking it was dry the next day I grabbed it and the paint was still wet. I left it sit for several more days and it never cured. The paint remained soft and had a slick almost oily feel to it. I left it sit for weeks before I decided to start scrapping it off and stated over.

I don't know what changed with them but I won't even consider their products for the most basic of projects.
That’s a bummer. I haven’t seen that with Regular rusto enamel, though I almost never paint over 80F. Can is always at room temp, between 65-75, model is anywhere from 25F to 75F. I wonder if it’s temp related, humidity related, or maybe the phase of the moon? 😉
 

neil_w

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I wonder if it’s temp related, humidity related, or maybe the phase of the moon? 😉
Phase of the moon is definitely a factor with the Rusto 2x paints. I count myself as pretty lucky with them so far.
 

rekrapmij

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You're having the same problem with Rustoleum as I had with Duplicolor. It went from my paint of choice to a bunch of crap after I had to throw out brand new cans that wouldn't work.
 

Banzai88

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Montana Gold and NEVER look back.
 

RocketTree

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I’m having a very difficult time this spring with spray painting. First, I can’t find the correct color Army Green for my Honest John and V2. Now I’m attempting to paint the Little Joe II and the white Rustoleum 2X paint is coming out of the nozzle like dust! Can was shaken, warmed in hot water. Same thing happened with the Rustoleum camo green paint that wasn’t the right color anyway. It’s 65 degrees and no humidity. I’m at my wits end on finishing these rockets. Anyone have any advice?

I had some bad cans of WHITE rustoleum 2x also. Dry spray. Check the batch number and try a different run of cans if possible.
 

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