29mm Minimum diameter - 3D printed

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Issus

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I've been struggling for inspiration for a new rocket (mostly due to lack of time/funds). When a friend borrowed one of my 29mm CTI cases to finish the retainer on his rocket- I figured I should probably build a rocket for the cases myself - having had the cases for a year or so and yet no rocket that small ;)

Rather than building constructing a rocket of usual means, I wanted to do something different. So this rocket is going to be completely 3D printed other than the eyebolt in the nose for the shock cord and recovery harness itself.

I want to see what the limits are of printing in plastic, so I'm planning to fly the rocket on a CTI H399WT, simulating to M1.45, and just over 6000ft altitude. It will carry a Telemetrum, but probably only use motor ejection due to space constraints. The length will be exactly 700mm and will weigh 574g with the H399. The weights are known for each part +/- a couple of percent due to the slicer knowing how much plastic it is extruding.

As with all my builds (not that I post many rocket builds), this is first designed in OpenRocket/RASAero, then completely modelled in SolidWorks while updating the OpenRocket model back and forth with SolidWorks based on design changes/issues in SWX.

The biggest challenges on this are, as I see them:
* Printing in PLA rather than ABS, I have the heated bed off my printer at the moment. PLA has a very low Tg and is not as strong as ABS.
* Cant print flat overhangs.
* 205x205x205mm build volume.
* Fairly low hoop strength... not great for supersonic shockwave collapse.
* FDM prints in layers, the bond between layers is only about 30% as strong as an injection moulded part would be.
* Thin walls create bed adhesion problems when printing tall parts. Several test parts came free and printed a giant hairball rather than a tube.
* Low Tg.. motors and ejection charges are hot.
* Fairly poor horizontal tolerances due to slight variations in filament diameter.
* Very long print times, printing 70mm/s walls, 85mm/s interiors these parts are looking to take 5-8hrs each.
* Poor surface finish, as the layers are all slightly different widths giving a very finely ribbed finish.

Advantages, as I see them:
* Pretty much every part of the rocket can be designed in, meaning that only sections need to be glued together.
* Complex features can be designed in, features I can't make on my lathe or CNC mill.
* Fairly cheap.
* Airfoils can be printed into the fins, as can the fillets... leaving very little finishing work.
* Ribbed surface will bond very well on the tube sections.
* Sands fairly readily, with a bit of wet sanding a polished finish is quite simple to obtain.

So, to combat these I've designed a rocket with a 4.3mm wall, giving me a 38.1mm OD, this will be sliced as two walls, both 0.8mm with about 20% density infill . This keeps the weight down, but also adds a lot of strength over a thin feature - making a torsion box of sorts. The fins are 5mm wide, with an "airfoil" designed into them (couldn't be bothered putting in a proper airfoil, so 0.8mm LE/TE and a 33% MAC curvature.) There are lots of 45 degree angles going up the build direction to eliminate overhangs.

FinalDesign.JPG

This is the rocket I've come up with. The rail buttons are designed into the rocket, as is the recovery point for the lower tube. Even though I'm trying to go for some performance here, I've gone with 4 fins in order to reduce their semi-span. The layers like to curl up on the long thin fingers of the fin as they are printed, due to contraction which can cause issues if it gets too long. There are ways to combat this, but its easier to just design around it.

Motor Retention.JPG

The tailcone is the motor retainer, which fits on with a twist lock.. if I have my tolerances right. Hopefully the motor case won't melt into this. The fast burn motors I plan to run this on should reduce the amount of heating it seems.

AVBayWithTelemetrum.JPG

The Avionics bay is one piece, no sled, just a printed hatch cover which is held in by 3x M3 screws, which will hopefully handle the forces on it. The telemetrum antenna sits forward into the nosecone, with a hole in the top bulkhead of the AV bay for it. It took quite a while to design the supports for the top bulkhead into the avionics bay, to stop the "inside" from sagging on my test prints.

AVBay Without Telemetrum.JPG

Under the telemetrum a small flat is positioned between the mounting points, with a stop at the bottom for the battery to sit on. I'll just be vecroing a 160mAh 1S Lipo into here, there shouldn't be enough room for anything bad to happen if it comes lose, not that it has enough weight to overcome the velcro on deceleration. I don't plan on doing any electronic ejection, even if it would let me get a lot more height as the motor ejection is much too short, so the small battery should be sufficient for tracking the rocket down.

The AV Bay also has a token vent hole printed into it, however this is likely to be useless as the seal on the hatch will be non existent and allow much more interaction.
 
Forgot to add the sim file :)
View attachment Printed 29mm Rocket.ork


Here is the forward most body tube, with the coupler that goes into the AV bay (separation point), Forward rail button, and internally the shock cord attachment point.
DSC_8179_DxO.jpg

DSC_8190_DxO.jpg

Took about 2.5hrs to print.

And the same, in section view, in SolidWorks.

40mm Body Tube Section.JPG

Nosecone is now printing, 20 mins in, 6hrs 20mins estimated as remaining.
 
What geometry did you use for the nose cone and airfoils?

Also, it looks like it has 4 fins from the pic. If that's the case, why did you go with 4, since you are increasing the print time?

Greg
 
Burried in my first post is:
Even though I'm trying to go for some performance here, I've gone with 4 fins in order to reduce their semi-span. The layers like to curl up on the long thin fingers of the fin as they are printed, due to contraction which can cause issues if it gets too long. There are ways to combat this, but its easier to just design around it.

You are correct, print time does increase, but not hugely - most of the print time comes from the vertical axis, as horizontal is fairly quick to knock out. Each layer is 0.1mm (going fairly coarse for these due to their height) so the actual time per layer is relatively low. Adding a little more fin height would take far longer than the extra fin does for example.

The nosecone is a Haack, mostly because I like the look of it. An Ogive at this speed is only 1m/s faster according to open rocket, its right around the point where the speed shifts to the Haack's favour.

The fin foils are just a 0.8mm flat (0.4mm nozzle on the extruder, so two tracks wide), and are a very simple affair - at 30% of the airfoil there is a section weighted to the rear, with a tangent spline joining the parts. The tip foil has a much larger flat, relatively speaking than the root, however with the tangent splines it doesnt make much difference. Not really ideal for supersonic but takes only a minute to loft!

Fin Airfoil.jpg
 
Ahhhhh. Those fairs are pretty nice!

Now, is this your own 3D printer?

Also, what kind of CNC mill do you have? I would think that a CNC would be able to handle a lot of this, except they would be discreet components and not integrated into the whole.

Anyway, is this the first 3D printed HPR rocket that you know of?

Greg
 
Yes, this is my 3d printer, I've had it about a year but have only made misc bits and pieces on it for rocketry - never the whole rocket from scratch only with a 3d printer.

I have a fairly large CNC mill/router I custom designed/built I mostly use it for 2D work to be honest, I want to start milling moulds with it this summer though. I use my CNC mill pretty much every weekend building parts for model aircraft and rockets or whatever else i need. Saves a lot of trips to the hardware store between the mill and the lathe. I've build several rockets with the CNC mill, and ground support equipment too - its a great tool, but it doesnt glue and do fillets so builds still take time. Rolling fibreglass tubes and slotting them takes a bit of time. Cutting out all the centring rings, bulkheads and fins on the mill takes no time at all, even when doing 3d profiles on them. The time comes in the putting it all together, filleting everything then the sanding.. and painting and sanding... lol. If I didnt have the mill though, cutting fins, CRs and bulkheads would be a huge pain... i dont know how people get by without one ;)



It is the first 3d printed HPR i know of, I havent looked terribly hard though. I've seen several on thingyverse for 18mm estes, but whats the point in that LOL, balsa fins and a paper tube take 10 mins to slap together hehe. I believe it will be the first supersonic 3d printed rocket - but I wont be able to launch it till next season, starting May next year as the last launch of this year got moved to my wedding day (bastards! Making me choose :( )

2hrs, 23mins into the nosecone print. 2hrs 10 mins remaining.
 
It is the first 3d printed HPR i know of, I havent looked terribly hard though. I've seen several on thingyverse for 18mm estes, but whats the point in that LOL, balsa fins and a paper tube take 10 mins to slap together hehe. I believe it will be the first supersonic 3d printed rocket - but I wont be able to launch it till next season, starting May next year as the last launch of this year got moved to my wedding day (bastards! Making me choose :( )

Oh, it has been done!

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?29100-Red-Glare-XI&p=260764#post260764

The rocket threaded together, it was pretty cool. Two separate fin cans, one with 4 fins and 1 with 2 canted fins.
 
Very cool, like I say, I havent really looked. I'd like to build a 75mm or 98mm minimum diameter, with this being my prototype - but I think the cost of the plastic and print time will kill me. A 98mm 3d printed rocket would be at least a month of overnight prints, possibly more like 2 months with the build volume I have. I also think that the time spent supersonic would turn it into a puddle of plastic (which might also be pretty cool.)
 
DSC_8202_DxO.jpg
Nose cone printed, the top didnt end up cooling very well, I need to clean the tip up on the lathe.

DSC_8207_DxO.jpg
DSC_8208_DxO.jpg
Avionics Bay printed

DSC_8213_DxO.jpg
DSC_8215_DxO.jpg
Avionics bay insert, which has the cover supports on it. Printed as a separate piece because it would be a huge overhang otherwise.

DSC_8216_DxO.jpg
DSC_8217_DxO.jpg
Inserted into the avionics bay. It sits on a 45 degree bevel (it has one itself on the base) internally, It will be glued into place.

DSC_8220_DxO.jpg
Top parts assembled.

DSC_8224_DxO.jpg
With the telemetrum, and the holes tapped for 3mm.
 
I think custom avionics bays are where this technology really shines. A fincan or nosecone is a great idea, but it takes hours and hours to make when there are other quicker options available. Avionics bays, however, could create a new niche within the hobby :)
 
I still think it's much faster to make an AV bay out of FR4/G10 on the CNC mill.

4" AV Bay
IMG_1411-XL.jpg
DSC_7861-XL.jpg
DSC_7865-XL.jpg
DSC_7864-XL.jpg
DSC_7866-XL.jpg

38mm AV Bay (I don't have a photo of this, as it was for my fiancee's rocket)
38mm AV Bay.jpg

I scale this one up for 54mm rockets too, I havent made anything smaller than 54mm for myself with electronics yet (other than this printed rocket.)

3D printing certainly does give some interesting options for rocketry though. Easily making aerodynamic fairings for cameras, making parts to make moulds from which would require too many operations to mill. It's going to be interesting to see what I can do with it now i've decided to use it for rocketry :)
 
Ponoko also offers 3D printing. I've used both Shapeways and Ponoko. The latter offers a wider range of printing materials as well as laser cutting.

Issus,
Have you thought about using an O ring to seal the hatch on the avionics bay? That would let the barometer work better.
 
Hey you don't need to own a printer to print stuff:

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/Cespedesign-Multimedia

These are my own designs. I just have Shapeways print them for me and for anyone who wants them.
Kevin Cespedes

Very expensive, and doesnt allow you much flexability to quickly revise and reprint. If you have something you're sure on then shapeways and ponoko (and many others) can be very good. They have very good printers, but the turn around time is killer.

Very nice. Cool idea. What temp does melt?

178 F.
just keep away from nozzle area.

I print PLA pretty cool, at 195C, most print 210C with the printer I have which is much higher speed than repraps and such, so needs higher temp. If you print slow enough you can print as low as 180C with PLA. I print ABS at 240-250C. PLA starts to get pretty soft at around 150C.

Issus,
Have you thought about using an O ring to seal the hatch on the avionics bay? That would let the barometer work better.
I'm not sure how I'd go with getting the O ring in there, I could try getting some liquid gasket material that can be applied, using PVA or wax on the other side so they dont get glued together when it drys. I'm not doing deployment so it shouldnt be a problem. The lapse rate on the AV bay will be almost non existant heh.
 
Last edited:
Base is printed!

DSC_8228_DxO.jpg

The airfoil looks good
DSC_8230_DxO.jpg

There seems to be a lot more "ribbing" on this part for some reason, so I'm going to fill it with low build primer mixed with sanding so I don't remove too much material making it weak.
DSC_8232_DxO.jpg


I polished the top part up. I sanded it with 240 grit (its all i had :( ), then 800 and 1200 under water. Finally polishing with automotive cut and polish. Took about 30-45mins. If this was ABS, it would be a lot easier... but heated bed is off the printer right now so PLA it is.
DSC_8237_DxO.jpg
DSC_8238_DxO.jpg
DSC_8242_DxO.jpg

Showing the difference between an unpolished part of the same size (even though it looks like the bottom part is narrower than the top - they are not.)
DSC_8243_DxO.jpg
 
Hey Sascha, I have seen that and used it before, and that is one of the tricks I can do with ABS - however this one is printed in PLA. I moved my 3d printer back to my office recently and the heated bed was making the room too damn hot (its basically a 500W heater on full blast) so I switched back to PLA on acrylic bed with tape for now. The ABS fumes are also not superbly good for you...

I have an extraction system planned that will also get the ABS fumes out the window and also help keep the heat out of the room, but that will take a little time to get together.

Didnt print anything last night... so no progress today.
 
This is awesome! Great work!

It'd be interesting to hear exactly how many hours of printing you have in this once its finished.
 
Very expensive, and doesnt allow you much flexability to quickly revise and reprint. If you have something you're sure on then shapeways and ponoko (and many others) can be very good. They have very good printers, but the turn around time is killer.


Hi Issus,
Agreed on the turn around time aspect with Shapeways (plan accordingly) and revisions come with a cost. Its good to be critical of the options afforded to us, but make no mistake, Rocketry is expensive! Despite limitations, I do believe service bureaus are a viable option. Where costs from either upfront or back-end do exist, not everyone is in the same boat about how they want to do it.
What I like specifically about the Shapeways Nylon is its modulus to weight ratio, how light and flexible structures can be with minimal wall thickness. This material can be of benefit to RG/BG types, as an example--its that light. Where you spend the money is ones individual choice (or lack thereof); at least we have all these great material choices across the board and is really how we all benefit from this resource. Granted, a lot of labor, overhead, management cost is figured material cost per cm of material of service bureau options like shapeways or pokono. But then again, I don't have to shell upfront for a capital good such as a personal printer (and personal time) in a rapidly changing technology sector. It just depends how much you use it that justifies the investment, in that sense. This indeed is the golden age for this hobby in a lot of respects. A lot of ways to go about it. Let that be a reminder to us all that we a richer for it. Personal printers are fun, and they are only going to get better. They are going to be in every household in the near future, but in the meantime its nice to have all the options on the table.
Best,
Kevin A. Cespedes
 
I agree Kevin, it really depends on what you are doing with the printer/service. If I'm trying to perfect the fit or function of a part for a client project, I can't afford to wait a week or more for each revision -I can have 3 in a day if the part is small, or at least one waiting for me the next morning. For me, owning a 3d printer makes more sense. If I was buying interesting parts for rocketry builds then a service would absolutely make more sense.

I should be doing some more printing this weekend. I have the tailcone re-printing now (3rd version). The last version's locking worked perfectly but was a little too tight on the knurled closure on the CTI motor. The knurling makes the part slightly wider than their technical drawing specifies, so my plastic didn't fit very well.

I'm actually feeling tempted to print the fins at 0.025mm or similarly high resolution at lower speed with better PLA as the black stuff I have been using so far is pretty cheap stuff. This should give me a very fine finish but would be around 25-27hrs of printing at a guess... probably not worth it when a big can of aerosol spray primer is $9 and a tub of it for the sprayer is $5 and takes 15 mins to work hehe. Could be a fun thing to try when I know I wont need the printer for a day or two or more.

Patelldb,
It's quite hard to say exactly how many hours of printing as the longer prints I put on overnight and the print software and printer dont tell me how long it spent printing, just how long it has been printing (which is cleared when it finishes!) It also really depends on how fast I push the printer. I can comfortably go 70mm/s at 0.1mm layer heights without losing quality much - infill can get a bit messy with bounce in the belts - however on round things like this the exterior is fine. On something detailed like the AV Bay, then I would slow it down to 60mm/s or lower if I'm getting sick of it's noise. It gets quieter as it slows down.
 
I agree Kevin, it really depends on what you are doing with the printer/service. If I'm trying to perfect the fit or function of a part for a client project, I can't afford to wait a week or more for each revision -I can have 3 in a day if the part is small, or at least one waiting for me the next morning. For me, owning a 3d printer makes more sense. If I was buying interesting parts for rocketry builds then a service would absolutely make more sense.

I should be doing some more printing this weekend. I have the tailcone re-printing now (3rd version). The last version's locking worked perfectly but was a little too tight on the knurled closure on the CTI motor. The knurling makes the part slightly wider than their technical drawing specifies, so my plastic didn't fit very well.

I'm actually feeling tempted to print the fins at 0.025mm or similarly high resolution at lower speed with better PLA as the black stuff I have been using so far is pretty cheap stuff. This should give me a very fine finish but would be around 25-27hrs of printing at a guess... probably not worth it when a big can of aerosol spray primer is $9 and a tub of it for the sprayer is $5 and takes 15 mins to work hehe. Could be a fun thing to try when I know I wont need the printer for a day or two or more.

Patelldb,
It's quite hard to say exactly how many hours of printing as the longer prints I put on overnight and the print software and printer dont tell me how long it spent printing, just how long it has been printing (which is cleared when it finishes!) It also really depends on how fast I push the printer. I can comfortably go 70mm/s at 0.1mm layer heights without losing quality much - infill can get a bit messy with bounce in the belts - however on round things like this the exterior is fine. On something detailed like the AV Bay, then I would slow it down to 60mm/s or lower if I'm getting sick of it's noise. It gets quieter as it slows down.

Hi Issus,
That interesting and it is indeed a different ballgame when you have clients. You just can't have delays.

I was just curious, with these long print times, do you have a battery back-up like APC, in case of power outage?
The two things that come to mind with such a long cycle of printing is a stoppage/reset , and or movement of printer, like small tremors or vibrations. I just simply don't know if that comes into the picture, with such investments of print time.
Kevin
 
I don't have a UPS or anything else, I have a cap bank to smooth out power (all my cnc machines have big cap banks) load on the switchmode power supply but that's about it. We only ever have a power failure here when there is a large storm, and whilst it is the time of year for it, it doesn't happen that often. I think we've had two power failures this year. Really, the biggest problem for me is specs of dust getting on the filament, I need to design something to put just before the extruder to clean the filament but haven't gotten around to it. Two of the prints on this rocket failed because the nozzle got clogged with a bit of dust or stand of air or fluff or something. It's a huge pain to clean out, the 0.4mm nozzle really isn't forgiving to any foreign matter. I have some ideas for it, but just haven't had the time or been frustrated enough to do it ;)

The printer itself creates an earthquake on whatever surface it's placed on.. so it vibrations are not an issue. When this thing is doing infill at 80mm/second on a small part, even with rubber feet, it shakes like mad :) I've seen videos of people running these of lipos and mounting them to backpacks - walking around to promote their hackerspace or similar with the printer working away as they walk. I have no idea what sort of build quality it has but it still pretty cool.



In other news, Tailcone fits the motor case perfectly now, and locks into the body perfectly! Assuming it doesn't get too melty, it should be really nice.
 
I'm planning to print the last section of body tube tonight, but first I wanted to see what sort of temperatures would be encounted by the rocket.

As this is fully designed in solidworks, I can play with CFD (something I rarely use and am happy to admit i'm a total noob with!).

Fluid Temperature.jpg

This is the temperature of the fluid (atmosphere) on the body of the rocket at Mach 1.5 - 401.98K being pretty much 129*C, the hottest fluid temperature the rocket will see. The plastic, if it was at this temperature, would get slightly squishy but it would not flow. Considering it will see these temperatures for such a tiny amount of time, it should not have any issues at all. I find it's really interesting how much temperature increases at the fin root on the front of the fillet. This is something i'd be quite interested to play with on bigger faster rockets to optimise.

It's quite interesting to see how much of an affect the AV Bay has on the dynamic pressure around the rocket...

AVBayPressureEffect.jpg
AVBayPressureEffect2.jpg
 
I haven't forgotten this rocket :) I've been overseas and having summer - so with the first rocket launch of the year in 6-8 weeks, I need to get back to this :)

Presently, i'm awaiting on new belts for my printer, they've gotten a bit too floppy to be tensioned much more than they are, and it's affecting the print quality - unless i print hideously slow.
 
I need to make a cosmetic nozzle for an Aerobee model and am considering using Shapeways to produce it. They aren't specific about the "strong and flexible plastic" and I'm not sure how to read the data sheet. Is this ABS, PLA or something else and how does it compare to other options?
 
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