# 2018 National Sport Launch (NSL)

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#### EeebeeE

##### Well-Known Member
Very proud to repost this announcement from the NAR... For those of you who have flown in Geneseo, NY, you know how great it is to have this event at this field. For those of you who haven't flown here...YOU GOTTA CHECK IT OUT! We are so proud to host the NSL, and are looking forward to meeting fliers all across the country.

The National Association of Rocketry (NAR) Board of Trustees is excited to announce that the 2018 National Sport Launch (NSL) will be held in Geneseo, NY. The dates you want to reserve are Saturday through Monday, May 26 - 28, 2018, Memorial Day weekend.
The Board thanks the Monroe Astronautical Rocket Society (MARS), Section 136, for hosting! MARS was founded in 1964, and is the oldest continuously active NAR section. They are also celebrating 25 years at their legendary Geneseo, NY field, home of the National Warplane Museum!
The Geneseo site features:
 A standing 12,000 waiver
 Easy recovery on a square mile of mowed grass with many more miles of open land.
 This site has hosted many other successful events. NARAMs 37 and 43  and NSLs in 97, 00, 03, and 12. There have been 21 NYPOWER events and even an LDRS in 03!
 Camping with a truck/camper or trailer, or RV is allowed on the field but there are no hookups available- you must be self-contained.
Thank you to Event Director MaryBeth Clune and her team, they are hard at work to make this 25th Anniversary event a most memorable one. The Board appreciates your continued commitment to the NAR! For more information on MARS Club, please visit the section's website at https://marsclub.org/
Details regarding the event, will be shared as they are available.
Including-
 Host Hotel information
 Event-specific website URL
 Night launch- Unwaivered (Up to Large Model Rockets- No HPR)
 Museum tours
 Plane rides available on historic aircraft
 Hot air balloon rides
 Fun-filled banquet unlike any you have EVER attended!
This is one National Sport Launch you WONT want to miss!
MARS looks forward to seeing you at NSL 2018.

#### EeebeeE

##### Well-Known Member
Great new announcement!

We will be able to accommodate N Motors at NSL. Previously our maximum power was M, but with the clearance of a line of trees, and the addition of new launch control equipment, have upped our impulse...so you can up yours.

If you are planning to come and want to stay in a hotel or camp, book reservations early. Memorial Day Weekend a lot of people come to the Finger Lakes region and Letchworth State Park from out-of-state, so tenting campsites and hotels book up quickly. I just checked Letchworth and out of the 270 campsites they have, only about 50 remain. You can reserve a campsite through Reserve America.

If you have an RV or camping trailer you can camp at the field, but you must be self-contained. You cannot dump gray or black water at the field and there are no electrical hookups.

#### EeebeeE

##### Well-Known Member
Another Fantastic Announcement.

Vern and Gleda Estes will be attending NSL 2018. They intend to be on the field observing for a while and will also be at the NSL banquet.

The National Sport Launch is a time for rocketeers to just have a lot of fun and fly rockets. And this year we are celebrating the 60th anniversary of both NAR and Estes Rockets. This will be the launch to remember. Visit the NSL landing page on the NAR website. You can register, and find out about accommodations as well as our field. Browse our "Featured Flights" section. If you're going, add your own featured flight. Remember you can bring your own self-contained RV and camp out on the field.

See you in Geneseo!
https://www.nar.org/site/nsl-2018/

#### jimzcatz

Booked hotel in Rochester months ago, 60$per night. Stayed there before. I cant wait. #### EeebeeE ##### Well-Known Member Booked hotel in Rochester months ago, 60$ per night. Stayed there before. I cant wait.
Looking forward to seeing your birds fly. We pulled out all the stops for this. 40+ LPR pads. 30 H-K pads. at least 4 L-N pads including our brand new Beast of an HPR pad. Hydraulic. Interchangeable struts and 1515s. It was just built last fall. We're hoping to see BIG things fly off that puppy.

#### EeebeeE

##### Well-Known Member
By the way, all vendors, manufacturers, and other friends of rocketry. We are going to be very sponsor-friendly this year with NSL. If you want to be the "official [product] of NSL 2018," let me know. We can handle naming rights of the away cells, high power pads, and low power pads. You can sponsor the banquet, and we can talk about a lot of other opportunities. If you want to sponsor a competition, we are thinking about a mile-high challenge (closest to 1 mile without going over), a 2-mile high challenge (closest to 2 miles with out going over), and a "Cardboard Mach Challenge" (build a rocket out of paper tube - no phenolic, wood fins and a balsa or plastic nose cone, and break Mach 1 with it). Or you can buy a 2' x 4' banner along the flight line. We're looking for enough  to print the banners, and prizes for raffles and competitions.

Send me a private message if you are interested.

#### EeebeeE

##### Well-Known Member
One more thing... Check out our logo. and if you think that is cool, wait until you see our T-shirt design!

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#### jimzcatz

##### Boss, Carolina Rocket Mafia
Big enough? Loki M1969 Spitfire.

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TRF Supporter

#### EeebeeE

##### Well-Known Member
Big enough? Loki M1969 Spitfire.
That needs to go into our "Featured Flights" section.

#### jimzcatz

##### Boss, Carolina Rocket Mafia
Is that section up and running yet?

#### EeebeeE

##### Well-Known Member
Three Great Announcements...

1. We are pleased to announce that MARSA Altimeters are the official altimeter of NSL 2018. For high power rocketry fanatics these are the state of the art, very freaking best altimeters you can buy.
2. We are just as pleased to announce that Beeline Transmitters are the official transmitter of NSL. Personal experience, I set a TRA Complex I altitude record last summer, and my Beeline tracker enabled me to find that rocket three miles from the launch site. These are easy to use and reliable as heck.
3. Rocketman Parachutes are the official recovery system of NSL. From 1 foot to 60 feet in diameter, the Rocketman chutes are the most dependable and strongest rocketry chutes out there.

So with these announcements, you know what that means? ... You better buy lots of raffle tickets!!!

#### SaintJohn

##### Well-Known Member
Hello,

So I'm going to be making plans to come out to NLS 2018, I was there at NSL 2012 in Geneseo and it was great. I have a question though: Will there be any mid-power 1/4 inch launch rods set up for mid-power stuff that doesn't use rail buttons, such as older Aerotech kits and Estes ProSeries II stuff? The list on the FAQ from the NSL site jumps from 3/16 to rails...

• 43 low power 1/8 & 3/16
• 5 mid power 1010 and mini rails
• 27 high power split in 2 banks 1010 & 1515
• A brand new hydraulic tower MARS calls the Beast!

Thanks!

#### dr wogz

##### Fly caster
NYPower last year had the same set-up. I had to install some buttons on one I wanted to fly..

I think they're trying to phase out the 1/4" rod in favor of a rail..

Just toss some buttons on the opposite side from your lugs. You'll be 'ambidextrous'!

#### SaintJohn

##### Well-Known Member
NYPower last year had the same set-up. I had to install some buttons on one I wanted to fly..

I think they're trying to phase out the 1/4" rod in favor of a rail..

Just toss some buttons on the opposite side from your lugs. You'll be 'ambidextrous'!
Hmmmm.... I was kinda hoping that they'd have a few set up being as they'd have a lot of "guest" fliers that may just build a kits as-per instructions. I know that back at NSL 2012 I lunched my Semroc Saturn 1B on a 1/4 inch rod using a composite Aerotech motor. That kit has both 3/16 and 1/4 inch lugs built in, they sent me out to the high power pad b/c of the motor. They had it set up out with the high power pads. I'd hate to have to put rail buttons on my Saturn 1B and Saturn V. I'll do it if necessary, do you have a recommendation as to a set of rail buttons that would work well with some of the Estes PSII kits, I don't have any experience with them.

#### dr wogz

##### Fly caster
standard '1010' rail buttons can be had from a number of suppliers. As far as I know, they all install the same way. Ideally, you aim the screw into a centering ring. Or, they come with a 'T' nut backing, which you install from the inside of the body tube, and affix the button to it from the outside (you need to drill a hole first..)

People have drilled a hole, then squirted epoxy into the hole, then screwed the button in place. Holding the rocket horizontal and with the button down, so the epoxy grabs / surrounds the portion of the screw inside the rocket to secure the button in place..

I think the idea is to get away from the 1/4" rod; any potential rod whip or binding. And, most are using buttons these days anyways.. I believe it's considered 'safer' by many..

I actually screwed the buttons onto (into?) the cardboard lugs on the rocket in question, so I could fly it. Stick a 1/4" dowel into the lug, then screw the button onto / into that.. Would that work for you?

#### EXPjawa

##### Well-Known Member
I think the host club doesn't allow use of 1/4" lugs anymore, the philosophy being that if its big enough to warrant a lug that big, its big enough to be better served by a button. With that said, they do have at least one mini button rail. I use mini buttons a lot myself; they are a lot smaller and less intrusive into the rocket design than a 1010 button, but the rail itself is large enough to have far better rigidity than any 1/4" rod. They install the same basic way as described by dr. wogz, though their small size means that the tee-nut option doesn't really apply. I have on a few occasions threaded them into the airframe wall itself if the cardboard was thick enough and the hole was reinforced with CA glue. But a centering ring is still a better target. I pretty much use mini buttons on anything with 24mm or 29mm motor mounts that'll fly in the E or F range. I go to 1010 buttons if I'm flying G or bigger.

#### samb

That is an interesting piece of news. Mandating rail button use in place of quarter-inch lugs at a national launch... need to think on that bit.

#### jsdemar

##### Well-Known Member
That is an interesting piece of news. Mandating rail button use in place of quarter-inch lugs at a national launch... need to think on that bit.
From https://marsclub.org/launch-info/
MARS requires all High Power rockets to use rail buttons for launch guidance, unless they will fly to no higher than 800 feet. Launch rails are superior to round rods in every way and are an integral part of our system to control rocket flights. Saucers, spools and monocopters are exempt from the rail button requirement.
I'm pretty sure they'll allow 1/4" rods on low altitude model rockets. But, someone from the club will have to catch up with this thread to verify.

#### dr wogz

##### Fly caster
I have a stash of buttons, and am slowly switching over. Our club has both a rail & 1/4" rod. And, bneing 'ambidextrous' I can have a rocket on each / or grab which ever isn't being used..
Pretty much anything 29mm and up have buttons.

#### samb

That is an interesting piece of news. Mandating rail button use in place of quarter-inch lugs at a national launch... need to think on that bit.
From https://marsclub.org/launch-info/

I'm pretty sure they'll allow 1/4" rods on low altitude model rockets. But, someone from the club will have to catch up with this thread to verify.
Ok thanks John. The rule you quoted makes perfect sense to me, I guess I was thinking of the old mid power space, E,F,andG motors. Mandating may have been the wrong word to use but that's how I read the comments from SaintJohn in post #15 and #17. I know that MARS has been running big launches at Geneseo for years so I'm sure there's more to this than I know. I'm also sure NSL 2018 will be fantastic. I hope to get up there one day so I'll be able to answer for my sins in person. :blush:

#### jsdemar

##### Well-Known Member
Ok thanks John. The rule you quoted makes perfect sense to me, I guess I was thinking of the old mid power space, E,F,andG motors. Mandating may have been the wrong word to use but that's how I read the comments from SaintJohn in post #15 and #17. I know that MARS has been running big launches at Geneseo for years so I'm sure there's more to this than I know. I'm also sure NSL 2018 will be fantastic. I hope to get up there one day so I'll be able to answer for my sins in person. :blush:
I haven't been a member in 15 years, since moving to the Southwest. There have been some challenges and added safety rules required to maintain the launch site with the warbird museum there. That is the reason for extra care with launch angles and eliminating rod whip, as I understand it. It's a beautiful location, very unique for the Northeast. I was hoping to make it to NSL this year but too many trips planned for SLP, TARC, and another trip in June.

#### Bat-mite

##### Rocketeer in MD
I would absolutely love to be there, but it's just a month and a half after Red Glare and I can't do that to my wife. Also, we're heading on vacation shortly after and will need the funds.

Dang. Looks to be an awesome event.

#### SaintJohn

##### Well-Known Member
I think the idea is to get away from the 1/4" rod; any potential rod whip or binding. And, most are using buttons these days anyways.. I believe it's considered 'safer' by many..

I actually screwed the buttons onto (into?) the cardboard lugs on the rocket in question, so I could fly it. Stick a 1/4" dowel into the lug, then screw the button onto / into that.. Would that work for you?
That is an interesting piece of news. Mandating rail button use in place of quarter-inch lugs at a national launch... need to think on that bit.
From https://marsclub.org/launch-info/

"MARS requires all High Power rockets to use rail buttons for launch guidance, unless they will fly to no higher than 800 feet. Launch rails are superior to round rods in every way and are an integral part of our system to control rocket flights. Saucers, spools and monocopters are exempt from the rail button requirement."

I'm pretty sure they'll allow 1/4" rods on low altitude model rockets. But, someone from the club will have to catch up with this thread to verify.
Ok thanks John. The rule you quoted makes perfect sense to me, I guess I was thinking of the old mid power space, E,F,andG motors. Mandating may have been the wrong word to use but that's how I read the comments from SaintJohn in post #15 and #17. I know that MARS has been running big launches at Geneseo for years so I'm sure there's more to this than I know. I'm also sure NSL 2018 will be fantastic. I hope to get up there one day so I'll be able to answer for my sins in person. :blush:

The purpose of my initial post here was to get clarification from someone with the MARS club because the NSL website's FAQ page lists the available launch equipment and doesn't mention anything between 3/16 rods and a 1010 rail. I'm not sure if anything has been "mandated," but a 1/4" rod for mid-power E-G stuff is clearly missing from the list. They had a 1/4" rod set up when I flew with them back during NSL 2012, but I want to make sure that they'll have it this time or if I'll have to purchase rail buttons. I'm hoping that given the fact that this is a national launch and rocketeers will be coming from all over the country where their local clubs all have different types set ups, they'll accommodate all commonly used launch rods and rails, including 1/4". The closest NAR section to me, the GSSS in NJ, only has a field that is big enough to launch low/mid power stuff up to G; their "high power pad" is basically an Estes ProSeries II style set up with a 1/4 inch rod.

I'll be going either way lol, hopefully though someone from the club can clear this up!

#### samb

The purpose of my initial post here was to get clarification from someone with the MARS club because the NSL website's FAQ page lists the available launch equipment and doesn't mention anything between 3/16 rods and a 1010 rail. I'm not sure if anything has been "mandated," but a 1/4" rod for mid-power E-G stuff is clearly missing from the list. They had a 1/4" rod set up when I flew with them back during NSL 2012, but I want to make sure that they'll have it this time or if I'll have to purchase rail buttons. I'm hoping that given the fact that this is a national launch and rocketeers will be coming from all over the country where their local clubs all have different types set ups, they'll accommodate all commonly used launch rods and rails, including 1/4". The closest NAR section to me, the GSSS in NJ, only has a field that is big enough to launch low/mid power stuff up to G; their "high power pad" is basically an Estes ProSeries II style set up with a 1/4 inch rod.

I'll be going either way lol, hopefully though someone from the club can clear this up!
Yeah sometimes a get little too excited on the 'ol forum. I'm sure you'll have a great time at NSL. As I'm also sure that whatever range rules are implemented by MARS at Geneseo are designed for the greater good of flyers, spectators, landowner, and neighbors. It's a tall order keeping everybody happy sometimes.

#### jderimig

The club has 1/4" rods available. But the RSO can refuse the use of if he/she deems that there is rod whip hazard which could put the Warbird museum in range. Hence the 800ft guideline. And there is no arguing or pleading with the RSO no matter how wrong you think he/she is.

So you might be able fly at NSL on a 1/4" rod but if you want a guarantee consider rail-buttons.

#### SaintJohn

##### Well-Known Member
The club has 1/4" rods available. But the RSO can refuse the use of if he/she deems that there is rod whip hazard which could put the Warbird museum in range. Hence the 800ft guideline. And there is no arguing or pleading with the RSO no matter how wrong you think he/she is.

So you might be able fly at NSL on a 1/4" rod but if you want a guarantee consider rail-buttons.
Thanks for the insight.

I've been doing some research around the forum here as to proper placement for rail buttons...to say that there are differing opinions is an understatement lol. So instead of asking where they should go I am going to ask if there is anywhere on the rocket I shouldn't place them? I'd hate to install them to have an RSO tell me they are set up improperly.