# 1st Time Viking Build

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#### John_lennon

##### Well-Known Member
@rklapp,

I hope soon enough I can get a video of my 1st Viking launch let alone 8 that's awesome. You've got a beautiful open field for your launches. I hope we're I'm thinking of going next will be an adequate open space. I might go out scouting to see where the largest area is, I've got a few in mind. Has anyone ever been harassed by the authorities for launching rockets? Are newer phones a good way to film launches I've got a 48mp camera on mine. I know they travel super fast is it hard to capture them in flight?
Dyl

#### neil_w

TRF Supporter
Are newer phones a good way to film launches I've got a 48mp camera on mine. I know they travel super fast is it hard to capture them in flight?
At some point you just need to try stuff and see what works for you.

In general, phones are fine for photos or videos at the pad, but for tracking the rocket up into the sky they're not great due to short focal length. But if that's what you have, use it.

Also: it's generally somewhere between difficult and impossible to both *watch* a flight and take a video of it at the same time. Best to have someone else with you to handle camera duty if you want to watch your own flights.

#### John_lennon

##### Well-Known Member
@neil_w
Yes I definitely just have my phone camera for catching any video. When we launched the Riptide I'd left my wife in charge of getting footage, but with all the igniter mishaps when it finally lit she wasn't prepared. Oh well lucky we'll get something recorded soon. I'm guessing a decent camera to catch high speed footage is gonna set me back quite a bit. What do people commonly use to catch some of the really detailed videos? I was having a hard time getting the picture of the little blemish from the bubble within the 2nd layer of primer. That's why I just gave up on it. Hopefully the next photos I take will be of the completed Rocket. Have a great weekend,
Dylan

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
@rklapp,

I hope soon enough I can get a video of my 1st Viking launch let alone 8 that's awesome. You've got a beautiful open field for your launches. I hope we're I'm thinking of going next will be an adequate open space. I might go out scouting to see where the largest area is, I've got a few in mind. Has anyone ever been harassed by the authorities for launching rockets? Are newer phones a good way to film launches I've got a 48mp camera on mine. I know they travel super fast is it hard to capture them in flight?
Dyl
I was using my iPhone8. The problem with it is holding the phone overhead and keeping fingertips out of the view. In the bright sun, it's difficult to see the screen. Also, the phone's stability feature makes it difficult to focus on the moving rocket. The trick is to find a cam that has enough stability without making you sea sick from the jerky video but still focus on the rocket as it's descending. I'm currently using a Sony Handicam that I paid $250 on Amazon. I'm not sure if a$1000 cam would be a significant improvement. I initially tried a DSLR but the AF was too slow and noisy.

What city are you near? We may be able to help with searching for a safe place. The park we launch out of allows for model rockets and drones. It's 150m long which is good for LPR and some MPR. Discovering the park was the main reason why I got back into rocketry before the pandemic. We've gotten good at retrieving rockets out of the trees. Sometimes they land in the canal that runs along the park.

A couple weeks ago, someone called the cops to report I was setting off fireworks. The park staff set him straight when he arrived and went out to check out what I was doing. I let him launch the SS Centris. It was awesome.

#### John_lennon

##### Well-Known Member
I was able to get some photos of the finishing process so far. I'm at my 3rd Coat of Primer I went with the Rust-Oleum 2x Flat White Primer. I realize this has been a very steep learning curve. Thanks to the wonderful members in the group you're a wealth of valuable information. I don't think I would've been as successful without your help. I thought all was lost when I realized I glued the spacer tube into the BT. I'd gone back to the local shop to purchase another Viking in case all was lost. But with a little persistence and crimping of the BT some I was able to get it out and continue with the build sorry it's so slow going. I know it's not that exciting of a read.

I see a few imperfections from the crimping of the BT and another with my lack of knowing how to properly fillet glue. But overall for a first time ever doing fillets I think I did fairly well. The first glue I used was white glue that I purchased at the Hobby Shop it started coming out fine then I noticed some slimy type of substance along with the white glue needless to say I didn't notice it till I was trying to smooth the glue with a moistened finger that it wasn't laying correctly. I should've documented everything with photos for you guys. Since I notice that's how other build threads are I'll do this in the future. I guess a lot can be learned from photos, and if you saw what was happening you would've been able to help out or explain to me what was happening.

I was able to get a very smooth to the touch finish with some 400 grit and later 1000 grit sandpaper. Does the group think I should extend the fillet on the aft end of the 1 wing? Also should I fill in the pucker marks with more CWF to get a smoother appearance on the BT? How do you guys go about dealing with the transition at the beginning and end of the wing that you're filleting? Do you float it out to the BT or does it just stop at the edge smoothing it with sanding to give it a more gradual appearance?

Thanks for all the great tips and tricks,
Dyl

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#### neil_w

TRF Supporter

1) What let you to 3 coats of primer? 1 or 2 should be plenty for a rocket like that. Was there something you saw that led you to add more?
2) As a follow-up to #1: I appreciate you're trying to to do everything "right", but it feels to me like you are slaving over this rocket excessively. The Viking is a little disposable rocket. Especially with regard to painting, you will not get it perfect on your first (or maybe second, or third, or even fourth) try. The best way to get better (again, especially with regard to painting) is just to build more rockets and each time, evaluate your results and then improve on the next one. I know this analogy is a stretch, but think of Starship development vs. SLS. Be SpaceX.
3) You might consider Titebond Quick and Thick for fillets; I like it because it'll let you do all of them at the same time. Check the link for my little tutorial on how to use it.

#### John_lennon

##### Well-Known Member
@neil_w

To be truthful it's actually the 4th coat of primer. The 1st coat dried like a powder coat. I sanded away the gritty residue. Then switched paints I coated the rocket again with a new coat of primer and sanded a few spots minimally till It looked and felt smooth for a 2nd coat(actually 3rd technically) of primer. Which is when it bubbled up in a few spots. I sanded the imperfections away and also noticed a few other areas that didn't look smooth. So I sanded away again. Then onto the latest coat of primer which I'm happy with the smoothness just in the couple areas I mentioned in post #125 also noted in the pictures.

Yes I'm sure most wouldn't spend the time doing all these steps in their 1st build but I'd really like to get a handle on how to build a really nice looking model. I believe a lot of the look will come to play in the finishing processes. So if I've taken a few extra steps because I don't know what I'm doing really that's ok with me. Hopefully by the next build I'll be that much more familiarized with what's going on. Then I'll be able to perform the tasks at hand quicker and better. I see these beautiful builds you guys are showing pictures of and I too would like someone to be able to look at my work one day, saying wow that's a beauty.

Plus I'm a bit of meticulous perfectionist in a lot that I do. I'll most likely leave things as is and move to color paints. Or possibly I'll address those things and do some more sanding and painting. If I'm going to be making this a throw away rocket it's because it's beyond repair or gets lost and I'll take a lot of pride in this My 1st build. My grandson likes the looks of the ID Card so that's what we'll be going with yellow and green. I've just gotta do the 1 wing and nose cone in the green so it shouldn't be too difficult to tape off.

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Some builders are mostly interested in the build. We have a friend, Roger who puts most of his efforts in a few rockets and will only launch in perfect conditions. I, on the other hand, am a member of the Estes Cato Frequent Flyer program. I've lost track of how many Vikings I've built and lost. This rocket has survived 8 flights on C motors. I used Rustoleum textured paint on this one. There's no primer or fillets and the stickers have peeled off so replaced with vinyl tape. It will be a sad day when this one doesn't return, but I have 4 more in the pack.

I suggest you stick with A8-3 for your rocket. With the number of primer coats you're adding, it probably won't go higher than 100ft. For your next build, use a small digital scale to track how much weight you're adding. Each coat might add about 10% to the weight. It tend to make my rockets heavy also.

My Super Mars Snooper is coming along. This is my first coat of primer and have a lot of sanding to do. I find the TBII and Q&T combo for the fillets to create the best strength and flexibility without adding excessive weight like epoxy. The kit came with a 5" lug to align the holes. It doesn't say to keep the lug in but now I'm wondering if I should.

#### neil_w

TRF Supporter
My Super Mars Snooper is coming along. This is my first coat of primer and have a lot of sanding to do. I find the TBII and Q&T combo for the fillets to create the best strength and flexibility without adding excessive weight like epoxy. The kit came with a 5" lug to align the holes. It doesn't say to keep the lug in but now I'm wondering if I should.
That's a big old 10-4, good buddy.

#### Joekeyo

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
You ain't done with that Viking yet? I've built 2 since you started. One had a blotchy paint job, but it still looks good on the launch pad. Oh well.

You think building them is fun, wait until you launch them. Tons of fun. Even with all that paint, I bet you can lose it on a C6 something. Then you can use all your newly acquired building skills to build another, more expensive rocket. Welcome to model rocketry.

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
That's a big old 10-4, good buddy.

Ahh, I see it now.

#### John_lennon

##### Well-Known Member
@rklapp

I guess I'll keep my eye open for a new Handicam or possibly a GoPro. We often get camera equipment at our Estate Sales. We had a GoPro 6 Hero at a house we did a few months ago. So I'm sure I'll see something adequate soon enough. In the meantime I'll see how good my phone does or have my wife record to see how it comes out. And yes I'm still working on it I'd like to really get good at the finishing aspect and I might as well do it to the best of my ability. It was a blast flying the one we sent up even if it was only for the few minutes it lasted. Plus it also gives me something to work on in between visits with my grandson. I also don't want him to think I'm building without him much he'll be bummed that he wasn't around for things. He's well aware he's not ready for glueing, patching, sanding, and painting.
Thanks for all the wisdom guys I appreciate it,
Dyl

What's Q & T?

#### John_lennon

##### Well-Known Member
If I wear to work out the couple trouble areas I mentioned above will glue and CWF apply to primer without any negative issues?
Thanks,
Dyl

#### teepot

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Q & T = Quick and Thick TiteBond glue.

#### neil_w

TRF Supporter
If I wear to work out the couple trouble areas I mentioned above will glue and CWF apply to primer without any negative issues?
You generally don't want to glue to paint. CWF sticks pretty well to primer in my experience, although I admit I'm usually using it on top of filler/primer, not on standard white primer.

My recommendation, though, is to skip that and just finish this rocket. You will gain more and better experience by building another than you will by trying to reach perfection on this one. And I think it will be more enjoyable as well. IMHO.

#### John_lennon

##### Well-Known Member
@neil_w what's filler/primer is that a different type of primer paint?

I think I'm just going to finish it off I'll tape it up in another day or 2 to get the colored paints on. I'm using Tamiya Spray paint I'm hoping it won't be a problem over the 2x primer I used.

Dyl

#### neil_w

TRF Supporter
@neil_w what's filler/primer is that a different type of primer paint?
Filler/Primer is a type of primer that has a high solids content, and therefore can act as a final filler step to deal with remaining surface imperfections in the model. In some methodologies that is its primary use, rather than as a base for the color coats. But it can do both.

It *must* be sanded. In fact, normally you'll sand most of it off. Much grey dust is generated.

I *mostly* follow @hcmbanjo 's approach of spraying parts with filler/primer and sanding them before assembly, although sometimes I'm lazy and just spray the whole rocket after assembly (sanding is a bit more challenging then).

Some folks (including Chris) prefer the more expensive Duplicolor filler/primer, but I've been satisfied with the performance of the Rustoleum stuff.

I strongly recommend you read Chris's blog and see the techniques he uses for finishing. You don't have to do everything exactly his way but it will provide you with an excellent foundation. He discusses filler/primer in pretty much every build.

And in particular: https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspo...0-04:00&max-results=20&start=14&by-date=false

#### John_lennon

##### Well-Known Member
When masking off areas of the rocket to be painted a different color I'm assuming that painter's blue tape is the norm. Do I want to remove the masked off areas tape immediately after painted or do I want to wait a period of time? Also has anyone ever had issues with paint or primer coming off when the tape is removed? I'm wondering if there's too long of a period to leave something taped up too. For instance say I masked off areas & didn't get to painting for a couple of days. I do have some of the 3M Purple painters tape for extremely delicate surface areas. I'm curious if I should be using this product instead of the 3M Blue?

Dyl

#### David_Stack

##### Well-Known Member
Good Afternoon Dyl;

A search of the forums (I used the term "tape") will turn up more than you likely care to know...

r/
Dave

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
The painters tape still has leakage so using vinyl tape for edges. That said, pull it slowly because it can pull off the paint if too fast. Most people paint their Viking one color so curious what your paint scheme will look like.

#### John_lennon

##### Well-Known Member
So I was able to get a color coat of yellow on the Viking today after work. I only masked off the Nose cone and 1 of the 3 wings to later be painted green once the yellow has set up enough to be taped I'll most likely wait till Friday to tape up & give it the Green coat. I know I was told not to use the blue painters tape but I feel it gave me nice sharp lines where I had it laying. Hopefully I'll be able to get nice sharp lines on the Green paint too. I'm using Tamiya colored paints.

I know I'm not doing striping or complex patterns but I'm definitely happy with it's appearance this far considering I thought the rocket was a lost cause in the beginning

@David_Stack thanks for your thread recommendations I pulled the tape off at about the 2hr mark I didn't notice any residue build up nor did I have any trouble with the tape pulling up any of the existing primer coats.

Thanks to everyone that's lended helping hands to my 1st build project.

Dyl

Here's some photos

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#### John_lennon

##### Well-Known Member
Hey all,

Sorry the thread that I started about my 1st build has gone silent for awhile. With all the craziness of work getting the better of me the past few weeks. A client we were supposed to do an Estate Sale for turned into moving them from Westport CT to Greenville SC to their house, & Storage in Greenville. Also items ended up going to their daughters place in NC. Once we had them packed up on 2-26' trucks heading South we were able to start setting up for the sale. We offer white glove services for the type of clients which includes packing and unpacking of all items in their new place. These clients are the Uber Riche type that are usually too busy with work to be bothered by such trivial things. We mainly work in Multi million dollar homes. So I guess they can afford it. Me I'd rather put my own things away especially with boxed items, kitchen stuff, and clothes. Which took a full 2wks including the sale completed yesterday. Our movers left Tuesday morning at 1am and just got back Friday and Saturday after helping them unpack everything. We now have the lengthy process of itemizing the remaining items left unsold later to be packed up to go to their next homes. Whether it's Donation, Consignment, Auction, or to the big 30yd Dumpster. Luckily the closing on the property is a few wks away and our boss was nice enough to give us a bit of a break in between. So I'm hoping to get the last of the paint done on the Viking. Just have to paint 1 wing and the NC. Of course today I woke up to large puddles in the parking lot & news reports of rain later in the day. So I won't be painting today for fear of the humidity associated with the rain. Just how things work out sometimes of course when you have time off it's supposed to be crappy out. There were a few days I came home after a long day thinking I'd paint but I'm so tired I usually walk in sit down on the couch, turn the TV on and I'm out like a light in 30mins. Such is life. Our movers are at the job site loading up things to be delivered that were purchased at the sale.

More of the build to follow,
Dyl

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
This thread has been entertaining in a good way because Estes says on their website that it should only take an hour to build. How many coats of paint do you think you'll have?

#### John_lennon

##### Well-Known Member
This thread has been entertaining in a good way because Estes says on their website that it should only take an hour to build. How many coats of paint do you think you'll have?

View attachment 487248
I'm happy with how the 1st coat of color went on although I see a few areas that could use attention but I think that at this point it's senseless, the issue isn't with the paint but with my prep. As I said I had issues with the spacer tube getting glued into the BT so a few of the spiral seams became really prevalent. I guess my filling technique didn't work on all of them. That's ok it just gives it character. Lol.. I also see a few spots that weren't sanded smooth enough. So there were 4 coats of primer. 1 was the bad coat that had the sandy appearance after which I sanded that almost bare. After the primer I'm hoping to just do the 1 coat of color the majority of the rocket Yellow Tamiya and the Green Tamiya for the NC and 1 wing. I guess my grandson got the idea from the Goblin kit I'd also purchased. So we shall see how the green looks once applied.

Is it common to have to do multiple layers of final exterior color paint with sanding in between? What's the norm for coats of primer and color.

I do know one thing it'll make it that much more exciting and rewarding to see it all decked out in stickers and clear coat on the launch pad getting ready to soar towards the heavens. Especially with the learning curve experienced with this 1st build. Hopefully as other kits start getting built things will become like second nature just like muscle memory.

Dyl

#### neil_w

TRF Supporter
Is it common to have to do multiple layers of final exterior color paint with sanding in between? What's the norm for coats of primer and color.
I would say there really isn't a "norm". My own practice is as follows:
1) I use anywhere from 0-2 coats of primer, depending on the circumstance.
2) Color coats are usually 2 or 3 coats. Regardless of total number, all but the last coat are 'light", and final coat is "heavy".

As for sanding: My goal with every rocket is to do no sanding of paint. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. What I've settled on is is to do all paint coats, and then evaluate. If the finish is good enough, move on. If it's not, I'll wet sand (not to remove, just to smooth out) and then apply one more heavy top coat. This has always given me a very satisfactory finish.

However, I think that poor Viking has been through enough already. Paint and move on to the next build.

#### John_lennon

##### Well-Known Member
@neil_w
However, I think that poor Viking has been through enough already
I guess since it literally looked like I was putting it through the ringer or wringer in my case trying to get the spacer out of the BT twisting and turning it about. Yes I'm going to get the green on and it's off to the stickers and trying out the Pledge Future floor wax for a clear coat.
Dyl

#### David_Stack

##### Well-Known Member
Is it common to have to do multiple layers of final exterior color paint with sanding in between? What's the norm for coats of primer and color.
Good Afternoon Dyl;

I know that Neil offered his thoughts, and here is some more food for thought...

"Nathan" has something of a reputation (and well-deserved it is) here in the forum for turning out a well-finished rocket. His latest is highlighted here: https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/the-porsche-dx3-is-back.168981/#post-2193424

Later in that thread, in response to a question on what his finishing process was he elaborated: "That is two coats of Duplicolor primer, sanded, then three coats of Duplicolor Paint Shop black lacquer and five coats of Restoration Shop clear lacquer sprayed with a HPLV gun. Then wet sanded with 1000 grit, then with 2000 grit, then polished with a Porter Cable 7424 polisher with a Lake Country white CCS foam pad and Meguiar's rubbing compound, then with Meguiar's Mirror Glaze Swirl Remover, then waxed with Chemical Guys 5050 paste wax."

The pendulum swings from one extreme to another...

r/
Dave

#### neil_w

TRF Supporter
LOL, yes Nathan is definitely one extreme. Such an approach is generally impractical at an LPR level, though, even if you were so inclined.

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#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
I’m confused about the Viking spacer tube. The motor retaining ring? I missed something.

We’re anxious because we’ve seen many elaborate rockets end up in a tree including my own. The Goblin will be another interesting build.