1st staging build going with LOC kit mods

jFlds

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Well I've started my first staging project. I've read a lot of posts and build threads and decided to take the plunge. I'm going to use the LOC Terrier booster with the Zeus for the sustainer.

Straight forward build on the Terrier booster. I've foamed the fin can as typical for my projects. I'm planning on going with drag separation to slowly test and learn the staging techniques. I'm leaving myself open to adding electronics in the reducer in the future.

The Zeus I'm going to stretch, make it fully DD, cut the fin can back to Make a zipper less baffle and a place to put my sustainer ignition electronics. I'm going to use an Easy Timer at first for ignition. I notched the CRs to allow for a channel made with some leftover paper lugs. I'll use this as my raceway for my sustainer initiator. I'm hoping by keeping this internal with a relief stop it will raise my odds of successful ignition with lowering the chances of lead separation. I'll have an RRC3 on board for recovery to start. I'm going to work on how to integrate the 3 channel and it's timer sequence for Future sustainer ignition on this or other projects.

The plan is to test fly it multiple times prior to the full staging flight.

1st flight will be the Zeus solo to dial in actual stability versus sim and compile flight data.

Second test with the added booster on a H550 super thunder, no engine in the sustainer. Looking for effective separation, timer ignition, and dual deployment function. Again dialing it in compared to the sim data post flight.

If all goes well next flight would be fully staged with another H550 super thunder to a CTI H42 mellow.

Any advice or tips are greatly appreciated. I'll keep updating the build as I make progress.

Cheers 🥂
 

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jFlds

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I'm also trying to keep it as LOC as possible thru the build. I did use a pair of Koszmo slims for retainers. Nice product. Real close to the GL Slimlines as far as function with the added bonus of fitting inside the terrier reducer coupler. Retention solved.
 

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waltr

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Looking good and you have a handle on whats needed.

Biggest possible issue is the mating of the ISC to the sustainer. Fit must be very smooth, tight enough to maintain alignment but loose enough to separate.

From the reading I've done it seems Drag separation does not happen easily and not at all if booster and sustainer are same diameter. With your larger diameter booster and a perfectly fitting ISC it may drag separate.
My point is, do not rely on drag separation until you prove that it does happen.
 

jFlds

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Looking good and you have a handle on whats needed.

Biggest possible issue is the mating of the ISC to the sustainer. Fit must be very smooth, tight enough to maintain alignment but loose enough to separate.

From the reading I've done it seems Drag separation does not happen easily and not at all if booster and sustainer are same diameter. With your larger diameter booster and a perfectly fitting ISC it may drag separate.
My point is, do not rely on drag separation until you prove that it does happen.
Thanks. It's definitely the first hurdle when I start testing.
 

Charles_McG

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I find just a small separation charge helpful. I fill the red cap of a ematch with black powder.

I have a growing suspicion that short CTI motors don't like igniting into a dead space. I've blown apart a couple small diameter fincans that way.
 

mikec

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From the reading I've done it seems Drag separation does not happen easily...
I have a 4" to 3" two stage built from LOC components and using their transition for the ISC. I've never gotten it to drag-separate; I don't think the second stage is heavy enough to do so. YMMV.
 

Rocketclar

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Likewise, with my Terrier/Sandhawk, I've not gotten a lot of drag separation. I shoot video down from the sustainer. I've also put a camera on the booster pointing up, but mostly just saw sky so I quit that. I did spray paint the inside of the ISC with high T paint. I also put in dog barf and wadding to try to minimize the ISC getting too burned. And I lengthened both stages....I had to cut off part of the booster as it was damaged in shipment so the repaired part is longer. Also, since I'm using an Eggfinder in the sustainer and a Proton with telemetry module, I had to lengthen the sustainer to get all that in. I have redundant charges in both. A RRC2+ and Eggtimer Apogee in the booster and a Proton using 2 channels for 2 charges. My first flight was with everything except a motor in the sustainer. I did have it fire an ematch for the sustainer. Both parts come down using chute releases. It's flown successfully several times on I's to G's as our waiver is only 6K plus I like to be able to see it. I did have to replace the thin nylon shock cord that came with the Sandhawk with Kevlar as the nylon burned thru.
 

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kswing

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Good luck with your two stage.

I've got a 4" two stage rocket and I've had a few successful flights but I've never gotten it to drag separate. I tried to make the booster have extra drag with large fins that weren't rounded and I sanded the inter-stage coupler so much that the stages would basically fall apart, but, they still stay together until the sustainer lights.

I'm using the sustainer motor for separation, so, I've coated the bottom inside of the coupler with thinned JB weld to protect it from the blast. I also put some in some recovery wadding (dog barf) for protection and so far I've had no noticeable damage to the inside of the coupler.
 

bobbyg23

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I'm also trying to keep it as LOC as possible thru the build. I did use a pair of Koszmo slims for retainers. Nice product. Real close to the GL Slimlines as far as function with the added bonus of fitting inside the terrier reducer coupler. Retention solved.
Whoa, did you see my thread and just copy it? 🤣. Looks just like mine.
 

jFlds

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Good luck with your two stage.

I've got a 4" two stage rocket and I've had a few successful flights but I've never gotten it to drag separate. I tried to make the booster have extra drag with large fins that weren't rounded and I sanded the inter-stage coupler so much that the stages would basically fall apart, but, they still stay together until the sustainer lights.

I'm using the sustainer motor for separation, so, I've coated the bottom inside of the coupler with thinned JB weld to protect it from the blast. I also put some in some recovery wadding (dog barf) for protection and so far I've had no noticeable damage to the inside of the coupler.
That's probably the route I'll try as plan b. Plan c will be to add a micro charge
 

jFlds

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Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. I truly appreciate it. I've done just a little more assembly. Avbay is semi assembled, the rest of my build parts showed up. LOC is knocking it out of the park as far as service and super fast shipping.
 

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bobbyg23

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Here is what I was talking about that looks the same as mine.
 

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jFlds

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Modified the nose cone to accept a single rod for a tracker sled. The avbay is a little small if I decide to add redundant altimeters. I'll epoxy a coupler into the original upper section and add a removable bulkhead for harness mounting.
 

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Rocketclar

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Also, I thought I wouldn't have room for DD in my Sandhawk sustainer, so I went with JL Chute Releases for both the sustainer and booster. I do have redundant charges to make sure I push the chutes out. Further, breaking the sustainer apart for DD would involve more complexity than a typical DD since I control the sustainer ignition via the Proton in the sustainer vs in the ISC.
 

jFlds

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Also, I thought I wouldn't have room for DD in my Sandhawk sustainer, so I went with JL Chute Releases for both the sustainer and booster. I do have redundant charges to make sure I push the chutes out. Further, breaking the sustainer apart for DD would involve more complexity than a typical DD since I control the sustainer ignition via the Proton in the sustainer vs in the ISC.
I'm still tinkering with how I'm going to layout my lower sustainer avbay/baffle for the timer. I'm not counting on motor ejection except for the emergency break glass separation charge if all else fails. I'm tempted to use a JL for the booster unless I frankenstein the reducer into some type of bay or bastardized HED deploy.
 

jFlds

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Finished up the nose cone assembly, added some HDU locktite, fitted the coupler, added bulkplate with rivnut and epoxied the canards to the assembly. Plenty of room for a tracker and altimeter if needed
 

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jFlds

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Got my lower avbay/baffle built. It's set up to be modular. I'll cut out the coupler for bay access then close it off by sleeving a removable piece of body tube over it leaving enough coupler exposed forward to triple as a zipper less fincan. Plenty of room for the altus timer and lipo. After reading input so far I'm just going to plan on using both channels of the timer. One for a separation charge and the other for ignition. You can do quite a bit with a few paint sticks, blue tape, epoxy and some planning. 😜
 

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jFlds

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I've made a little more progress on the build. The lower avbay has been fitted to the sustainer booster, the main avbay assembly complete, I have cut a longer body tube for both sections to allow for enough room for recovery components. I did a sim on the stretched version of the Zeus and everything looks OK. Dry fit on the entire 2:stage assembly complete. I'll start working on connection points and tube strengthening and some fin work. Overall length will be Just under 8 ft now
 

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