1940's Era Oliver Super 88 Row Crop Tractor Motor Rocket

Discussion in 'Scratch Built' started by lakeroadster, Jan 10, 2020.

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  1. Jan 10, 2020 #1

    lakeroadster

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    I was toying around at building a rocket based on a Muscle Car that utilized tractor motors. I even generated some CAD Models & Dwgs but the more I thought about it.. wouldn't a tractor motor rocket... based on a tractor.... be much more true to it's name?

    Since I was raised on a small farm and have always liked old tractors this should be a fun project. We had a 1950's era Allis Chalmers row crop tractor, and an old Ford 8N. Neither of those are very aero-designed though.

    I did some searching online for a vintage tractor that is something a bit unusual but also that has some quasi-aerodynamic qualities.

    These old Oliver tractors had some sleek lines. Back in the era where form was as much a part of design as function.

    Maybe have the tractor.... towing a rocket? :confused:

    What do ya think... can it be made to fly?

    Oliver Super 88 Row Crop 002.jpg

    Tractor Beam.jpg
     
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  2. Jan 10, 2020 #2

    kuririn

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    I used to play with a metal toy tractor that looked exactly like that, only all red.
    Just a couple of years ago.
    I'm kidding.
    But yes, that brings back memories.
    Go for it! Will be watching with interest.
     
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  3. Jan 11, 2020 #3

    Daddyisabar

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    For aerodynamics Oliver or Minneapolis Moline are your best bets. The MM Comfort Cab would work. But at this level of craziness anything will work so just fly your favorite one.
     
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  4. Jan 11, 2020 #4

    Daddyisabar

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    I was thinking a Sd Kfz 10 command/launch half track pulling an A4 (V2) would be cool.
     
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  5. Jan 11, 2020 #5

    lakeroadster

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    I looked at Minneapolis Moline. We had one of their motors on our sawmill when I was a kid... it was a beast.

    Minneapolis Moline Comfort Cab's are so bizarre I get the impression most folk would think the model was just a bad rendering of a '30's era Ford coupe :confused:

    I love your replies by the way... That Sd Kfz 10 command/launch half track towing a V2 is a "killer" idea.

    Minneapolis Moline Comfort Cab.jpg Sd Kfz 10 command half track.jpg V2.jpg
     
  6. Jan 11, 2020 #6

    Daddyisabar

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    The Comfort Cab is bizarre but the real farm boys would appreciate the difference. It also has a wonderful back end to hide a 3 motor cluster and still have room up front for recovery. Hook up a manure spreader on the back for a good ole time on the back 40.
    Use the command/launch car conversion of the half track for the V2. I just about pulled the trigger on building one but lost courage. There is a modification package for the plastic model half track but it is pricey and in limited quantity. It would take some major BALLS to do the full out plastic model conversion, but with a cluster of three Quest D16-4 motors it could be done.
    Either way you are so far into bizzaro land that the opinions of the normie 3-4FNC crowd are mute. Bringing a hinged, tractor motored rocket to the pad is crazy!
     
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  7. Jan 12, 2020 #7

    lakeroadster

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    Made some progress on the CAD Model. I moved the rear tires inward so they would be out of the motor exhaust path. But I'm guessing they'll still get a bit toasty.

    Pretty much the entire innards of the tractor are hollowed out for the chute, which will pop out the bottom, via a hinged panel..,,, that way maybe it won't get hung up on whatever we're towing.

    Should have some more time tomorrow to actually make some drawings.

    Oliver Super 88 CAD 001.JPG Oliver Super 88 CAD 002.JPG Oliver Super 88 CAD 003.JPG Oliver Super 88 CAD 004.JPG
     
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  8. Jan 12, 2020 #8

    MClark

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    I have a friend who collects Minneapolis Moline tractors, he has 200 total, three of the comfort cabs.
     
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  9. Jan 12, 2020 #9

    neil_w

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    Here I was just thinking the other day how Daddyisabar has been slacking lately on his crazy tractor motor contraptions. Glad to see you've taken the baton. :)

    :popcorn:
     
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  10. Jan 12, 2020 #10

    Daddyisabar

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    Iz be slackin'!
     
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  11. Jan 12, 2020 #11

    lakeroadster

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    Daddyisabar has all the pebbles.... just sayin ;)

     
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  12. Jan 12, 2020 #12

    jd2cylman

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    If restored, those are worth north of 100K each... :shocked::shocked:

    Minneapolis Moline UDLX
     
  13. Jan 12, 2020 #13

    MClark

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    Not restored, look like old tractors. But they are all there, run and move.

    The tractor rocket is cool.

    M
     
  14. Jan 12, 2020 #14

    lakeroadster

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    Finished the drawings. It appears D12's aren't going to be up to the task.... but it appears a couple of Aerotek F30FJ-6's could get it to 200 feet.

    I'm sure I can carve and whittle out more weight. I've decided to use bass wood for the lower part of the rocket, the area for the motor mounts (See sheet 4 of 7). Better safe than sorry.

    Questions:

    1.0 How big of a motor can a guy like me with no NAR cert's "legally" use?

    2.0 (Daddyisabar) What would you suggest I tow behind this that would be light weight and yet provide enhanced stability?
    2.1 Is it better to have it hinged (like a ball mount) or rigidly attached (like a 3 point hitch)?


    Oliver Super 88 Dwg Sht 1 of 7.jpg Oliver Super 88 Dwg Sht 2 of 7.jpg Oliver Super 88 Dwg Sht 3 of 7.jpg Oliver Super 88 Dwg Sht 4 of 7.jpg Oliver Super 88 Dwg Sht 5 of 7.jpg Oliver Super 88 Dwg Sht 6 of 7.jpg Oliver Super 88 Dwg Sht 7 of 7.jpg
     
  15. Jan 12, 2020 #15

    dhbarr

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    Any two F's or some lower end G's, though for that short length I think a pair of f32's or f35's is the right call. To do much more you'd need to go 29mm and likely increase the length.
     
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  16. Jan 13, 2020 #16

    Daddyisabar

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    You can tow whatever implement you like. A parade float from the 50's touting Americans in space???

    I would keep it as rigid as possible for this one. No need to hinge like multiple cars on a train. What is nice is that you could hinge it and the tractor motors would forgive that rocketry sin.
     
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  17. Jan 13, 2020 #17

    Daddyisabar

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    You must also walk on the rice paper and not leave a trace. These are just the beginning skills for tractor motored oddrocs. AND you thought getting a level two and three was hard with simple 3-4FNC!
     
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  18. Jan 13, 2020 #18

    boatgeek

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    Looking good! Your "NAR no-certs" limits are:

    Rocket weighs no more than 3.3 lbs (1.5 kg) all up
    Total propellant weight is less than 4.4 ounces (125g)
    No motors over 80 N average thrust
    No single motor over 160 N-s (line between G and H) and no clusters over 320 N-s
    No sparkies

    If it suited your rocket, you could fly on a pair of 29mm G57s or G68s (CTI). CTI's 24mm motors would limit you to F's because of propellant weight. Pretty much any F you wanted (CTI or AT) would work as long as they were under 80 N average thrust.
     
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  19. Jan 13, 2020 #19

    lakeroadster

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    Thanks.. that helps a lot.

    Can you define "Sparkies" for me?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  20. Jan 13, 2020 #20

    Daddyisabar

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    Bring it to Tripoli research day at Hartsel and the Top Men will help you out. Super safe and friendly.

    Clustering composites can be tricky and a good launch system with some home brew igniters will do the trick.
     
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  21. Jan 13, 2020 #21

    Walter Longburn

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    Sparkies are motors that throw showers of sparks, generally from bits of titanium in the propellant. Aerotech's Sparky propellants are Metalstorm Dark Matter and Metalstorm. CTI's sparky propellant is Skidmark. Loki's sparky propellant is Spitfire...
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
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  22. Jan 13, 2020 #22

    lakeroadster

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    Hmm... that seems like a tough thing to determine?

    Isn't there something in the motor designation that would be easily recognized to denote which motors are "verboten" for us NAR No-Certs?
     
  23. Jan 13, 2020 #23

    boatgeek

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    You usually pay extra for sparkies, so you don't usually stumble into them by accident. In CTI, they're Skidmarks ("SK" after the average thrust). Aerotech has two: Metalstorm (MS) and Dark Matter (DM). I think Loki's is the Spitfire, but I'm not 100% sure there.
     
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  24. Jan 13, 2020 #24

    Daddyisabar

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    Sparkles and tractor motors do not mix.
     
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  25. Jan 13, 2020 #25

    lakeroadster

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    Toasty tires on ye ole Super 88 Oliver :haironfire:
     
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  26. Jan 13, 2020 #26

    Daddyisabar

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    Ordinary BP motors are sparky enough. Tractor sparkies would be great for a burning man rocket! The burn marks on the tires will give a nice patina.
     
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  27. Jan 14, 2020 #27

    BABAR

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    If only one motor lights, I see a very uneven furrow in your future.......
     
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  28. Jan 15, 2020 #28

    lakeroadster

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    There's always that. It'll either go, or blow, either way it'll be spectacular.
     
  29. Jan 15, 2020 #29

    lakeroadster

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    I've been stewing over the design, wondering if I should revise it to use (3) 24 mm motors? Maybe one out the top, and rotate the (2) on the side downward.

    With just (2) motors I really don't have much left over weight hauling capacity for "implements".

    Your thoughts?
     
  30. Jan 16, 2020 #30

    boatgeek

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    Utterly crazy notion: moar motors!

    You could avoid the issues of motor flames hitting the wheels by having them out the top and bottom. Doesn't solve the "not enough thrust" problem? Add another motor top and bottom so you have two double-barrel pairs of matched motors. Lighting 4 motors will be a trick, but probably not that much worse than three.
     
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