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Nytrunner

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I also share a desire for world cooperation. Eliminating scarcity is a good way to start, but the monkey wrench is there will always (or at least for a long time) be individuals and agencies that would prefer scarcity that they control over freely available infinite resource.
 

boomtube-mk2

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The more pertinent question is whether we can use technology to save ourselves before we us it to destroy ourselves.

And what if the direction technology takes humanity is towards a downloaded "Matrix" type of existence whereby we have no physical body?

Is that saving us or dooming us?

Personally I can see that happening long before we develop "Replicator" technology much less FTL capability.
 

Peartree

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And once you have it, how do you prevent the people who don't have it from becoming so jealous of what you have that they keep trying to kill you?
 

Bat-mite

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Only one person can save us, and his name isn't "Technology."
 

samb

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Evidently this dream of universal cooperation amongst humanity is not shared by the Almighty:

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building.
6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city.
9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.
 

boatgeek

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Pulling back from religion...

There are some capitalists in the ST universe, but they tend not to come off as the heroes (Mudd and the Ferengi spring to mind). :) The question about what people should make versus what they replicate definitely came up with Sisko's father in DS9, and I'm sure in other places as well.

I've been thinking about a somewhat parallel issue to your question. If we have enough power, food, and medicine so that all of our basic needs are cared for, what do people do? Put another way, if the robots do all of our welding, what's the role of humans? Kurt Vonnegut talked about this in Player Piano; with his thesis being that people need to feel useful, not just have all of their basic needs met. I do think that's real. A lot of people get antsy if they don't have something to throw themselves into. A flip side with a much darker view of humanity is MT Anderson's Feed.

On the other hand, if we had an unlimited clean power source, we can stop doing many of the destructive things we do now. So tech can maybe save us, but only if it doesn't screw us up too much on the way.
 

Nytrunner

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Kurt Vonnegut talked about this in Player Piano; with his thesis being that people need to feel useful, not just have all of their basic needs met.
True. What is to prevent a significant fraction of the population from using the infinite resource simply to indulge themselves as opposed to throwing their attention and passion behind furthering science, art, or humanity's capability to expand responsibly? There are numerous "celebrities" today that have massive fortunes and are content with personal accumulation. Occasionally making lump contributions to charities that grab their attention.
 

Bat-mite

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Hmm, not "religious," but here is a quote from the original Planet of the Apes movie, regarding the true nature of man:

"Beware the beast man, for he is the devil's pawn.
Alone among God's primates, he kills for greed, or lust, or sport.
Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land.
Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours.
Shun him, drive him back into his jungle lair,
For he is the harbinger of death."
 

rharshberger

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Would you say technology betters are lives?

Follow me for a second. With technology humanity is better off. Humor me for a moment. In the Star Trek universe its all about technology. Its a Utopian Society. IDk if humanity will ever get to that point. But for the moment for the sake of the argument. First off i am very conservative republican who loves capitalism. At the same time I am a Star Trek fan and the idea of a Utopian Society is intreging.

What if here in the 21st century of man was able to capture unlimited amounts of power. Lets say we take a page out of Star Trek with the Matter/antimatter reactor. Let say the USA or the individual cities could do it. By having an unlimited power source than that means there would be no monetary reason to charge people money for something that is unlimited. The Sun doesn't charge planet Earth for the energy it gives us. Think about it. Another step forward would be something similar to a replicator. Any type of food, medicine, ect.. could be made instantaneously. Gene Roddenberry's quote was "in the 24th century there will be no hunger, greed, and all the children will know how to read." I believe if those 2 things would be made possible then most of the worlds problems would be fixed by technology

If the basic fundamental needs of humanity is provided by unlimited technology then that would eliminated some problems. People would still have to work to better themselves.
I'm thinking a technology based solution might end up more like Sci-Fi channels version of Frank Herberts Dune...
 

TopRamen

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I find that the less tech I use, the healthier and more learned I become as of late, so I'm going to say that when you have to really work without tech, you really lead a much fuller life and you live longer for having the enhanced vigor and drive.
I was actually pondering this about two hours ago when I was standing here looking back on all the work I accomplished over the summer, and how one of the keys to it's success was getting rid of cable and my television.
My new Entertainment Center is made mostly of Cast Metal Items of various aspect, Machines.
I'm a fan of machines where you need your own motor, pulley and belt. Simple and effective, and it does not need to get sent back to the factory for replacement, you can replace the parts individually. No direct drive for me when I can help it.
I used to weigh 190-195, and now I am a quite limber 157. My back might be sore, but I sure seem to be quite healthy otherwise.
If I had kept the TV, it would have been a distraction, and now I can't stand to be around one.
 
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dave carver

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Hmm, not "religious," but here is a quote from the original Planet of the Apes movie, regarding the true nature of man:

"Beware the beast man, for he is the devil's pawn.
Alone among God's primates, he kills for greed, or lust, or sport.
Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land.
Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours.
Shun him, drive him back into his jungle lair,
For he is the harbinger of death."

Guess this ape never saw the National Geographic Specials on the hunting abilities of Chimpanzees. If a family group of chimps target an animal it dies, period. Seems like I remember the makers of the show saying chimps are the very best hunters there is with an extremely high rate of kills to misses ratio. When you can move horizontally and vertically through an environment then you own it.
 

dave carver

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I find that the less tech I use, the healthier and more learned I become as of late, so I'm going to say that when you have to really work without tech, you really lead a much fuller life and you live longer for having the enhanced vigor and drive.
I was actually pondering this about two hours ago when I was standing here looking back on all the work I accomplished over the summer, and how one of the keys to it's success was getting rid of cable and my television.
My new Entertainment Center is made mostly of Cast Metal Items of various aspect, Machines.
I'm a fan of machines where you need your own motor, pulley and belt. Simple and effective, and it does not need to get sent back to the factory for replacement, you can replace the parts individually. No direct drive for me when I can help it.
I used to weigh 190-195, and now I am a quite limber 157. My back might be sore, but I sure seem to be quite healthy otherwise.
If I had kept the TV, it would have been a distraction, and now I can't stand to be around one.

But you still have your computer and internet connection ;) Me, too. I ditched TV from the time I first got my internet over 15 years ago. I'm on Cable One because of the connection speed with no bundled deal, just internet.
 

dhbarr

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I'm sure when writing was invented, many people lamented the loss of oft-repeated tales carrying on the oral tradition. And they probably weren't wrong, but preserving ideas past the dying out of those people ultimately had value.

There's no doubt in my mind that we're giving less emphasis to some things in favor of glowing plastic bricks. But a more powerful communication medium brings unknown benefits, and will find it's niche too.
 

TopRamen

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But you still have your computer and internet connection ;) Me, too. I ditched TV from the time I first got my internet over 15 years ago. I'm on Cable One because of the connection speed with no bundled deal, just internet.
Indeed! I use the Encyclopedia Galactica(A.K.A. INTERNET) to learn the older ways. I am DEVO on Tech for a while. In 20 Years, I'll be the next big thing, and every day will be the 4th of July. People will be moving to Moon Base Alpha, which will be made of Foam.
I need to learn stuff, and the internet means it can be shown to me in a video.

It would be a very missed piece of tech, but that is exactly why I'm trying to absorb so much learning.
 
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dave carver

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....I'll be "worshiping" whoever can grow me a new set of kidneys....
 

OverTheTop

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Of course technology can save us. It has already saved many of us from childhood diseases that in earlier history would have been a death sentence.


....I'll be "worshiping" whoever can grow me a new set of kidneys....
It will probably be a pig. They are using them a lot these days to investigate new medical tech.
 

dave carver

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Of course technology can save us. It has already saved many of us from childhood diseases that in earlier history would have been a death sentence.




It will probably be a pig. They are using them a lot these days to investigate new medical tech.


I think I'd prefer something from stem cell research. You know, grow or repair the ones I got. But if it's grown in a pig and that's what there is then I'd be up for it. Doc says 2-3 years and it's dialysis.....:(
 

Incongruent

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Would you say technology betters are lives?

Follow me for a second. With technology humanity is better off. Humor me for a moment. In the Star Trek universe its all about technology. Its a Utopian Society. IDk if humanity will ever get to that point. But for the moment for the sake of the argument. First off i am very conservative republican who loves capitalism. At the same time I am a Star Trek fan and the idea of a Utopian Society is intreging.

What if here in the 21st century of man was able to capture unlimited amounts of power. Lets say we take a page out of Star Trek with the Matter/antimatter reactor. Let say the USA or the individual cities could do it. By having an unlimited power source than that means there would be no monetary reason to charge people money for something that is unlimited. The Sun doesn't charge planet Earth for the energy it gives us. Think about it. Another step forward would be something similar to a replicator. Any type of food, medicine, ect.. could be made instantaneously. Gene Roddenberry's quote was "in the 24th century there will be no hunger, greed, and all the children will know how to read." I believe if those 2 things would be made possible then most of the worlds problems would be fixed by technology

If the basic fundamental needs of humanity is provided by unlimited technology then that would eliminated some problems. People would still have to work to better themselves.
Energy wouldn't be free, even if the source were. You pay for labor, maintenance, etc.
Same thing with the other things; you still have to pay people and fix machines.

Innovation is driven by competition, which utopias usually lack.

For instance, solar panels don't cost anything to collect energy, but they do they cost money to make, install, and maintain.

Technology helps, don't get me wrong, but it's certainly not a solution. A solution to all the problems is radical change in human thinking. And I don't mean forced by technology, because that would create as many problems as it already can't solve.

In the past, earth temperatures were regulated by a feedback loop of plants and animals. When it got too hot, plants thrive and convert greenhouse gas CO2 into O2, which lowered temperatures but increased oxygen and allowed animals to grow, which created CO2 and warmed up the planet again. This tampened put solar temperature fluctuations and kept us from going Venus or Mars.

Technology won't change as much as you'd think, and less than changing human nature.
Unethical to say the least.


To quote John Green, "There is no easy solution."
 

ThirstyBarbarian

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I think the premise in Star Trek was that the technology had advanced to such a level that everyone's basic needs were met, no one really needed to work to survive, so people chose to follow their own interests and make the world a better place. It's a great and hopeful vision, but it probably ignores some basic human impulses. For one thing, if everyone had infinite time on their hands and no responsibilities, then probably 90% of us would end up spending our entire lives inside the holodeck, engaging in ever increasingly bizarre and exotic forms of holographic cybersex. We would probably just plain forget to engage with the real world, interact with other people, or even reproduce, and we'd just go extinct after a generation or two.

Some people worry that if we develop powerful artificial intelligence, it could turn against us and destroy us. But I don't think it will be a Skynet type of Armegeddon. I think the AI is more likely to entertain us out of existence with fun and enjoyable distractions.
 

TangoJuliet

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Hmm, not "religious," but here is a quote from the original Planet of the Apes movie, regarding the true nature of man:

"Beware the beast man, for he is the devil's pawn.
Alone among God's primates, he kills for greed, or lust, or sport.
Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land.
Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours.
Shun him, drive him back into his jungle lair,
For he is the harbinger of death."
This quote goes along closely with what I was thinking while reading several posts in this thread, though I wouldn't say it's representative of all of mankind. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. For love to exist, there must be hate. For good to be triumphant, there must be evil to overcome. Heaven is the only Utopia there could ever be, and we will never know it in this life. Human nature just wouldn't/couldn't allow it any other way. I'm not a very religious type, but you just have to look around to know these things are true.
 

grouch

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Of course technology can save us. It has already saved many of us from childhood diseases that in earlier history would have been a death sentence.




It will probably be a pig. They are using them a lot these days to investigate new medical tech.
It could but it could also just as easily be a detriment. Think about how many people have died or become severely ill as a result of pollution due to technology? I view tech as a Pandora's box, once opened it can't be closed. Personally I desire a less tech life as I am most happy when I pull back. Manual machines are a blessing from God. Hand tools are a lost art. Bicycles are as close to perfect as a machine can get.
 

cwbullet

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Utopian societys still needs borders to keep the cavemen out.
 
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