Cnorm
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Okay. So how was Florida doing around mid August?
And how was their hospital capacity?
"10 Lessons We should Have Learned From the Pandemic"
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Okay. So how was Florida doing around mid August?
And how was their hospital capacity?
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Their hospital capacity was strained, but less so than California's during CA 's delta peak .
August is soooo 3 months ago 
You are correct.
It can't be.
Cases were the lowest per capita, but deaths were the second highest in the nation:
Florida posts lowest rate of COVID-19 cases per capita in nation (floridapolitics.com)
Excerpt:
"Florida’s most recent weekly death toll was the second-highest in the country for the week."
Guess the virus is running out of people to infect.
One thing that I've noticed with "the science", they change the scale of the graph. 100 deaths on a graph scaled to 0-120 looks the same as 1 death on a graph scaled 0-1.12. Most people look at the squiggly line not the number. If you look at their vaccination impact graph it seems to indicate that when vaccinations peaked there was a Covid spike that has since dissipated.
At some point in time the sky is going to have to stop falling. Maybe we can focus on the economy, illegals (not vaxed), trade, semiconductor shortage, little things like that. We won't.
From what I understand the spike was mainly due to the Delta variant.
And like all infections it surged and rapidly diminished. That's why they call it a bell curve.
This was covered on another thread, but let's go over this one more time.
Rather than cherry picking a statistic from a single point in time, it's more relevant to look at cumulative data over a period of time.
Here's a bar graph that shows per capita covid deaths by state:
Florida has the 7th highest death rate since the pandemic began. Meaning 43 other states are doing better in managing this crisis.
Nothing to crow about.
Mississippi is the worst at the top.
I guess it looks like I was cherry picking because I noted a spike at peak vax but the link is to all of the information. I used up most of my poor typing skills this morning so I didn't try to write about the entire document.
Got something with the median age of the residents of Florida and the rest of the states in it?
DeSantis encourage vaccination. He championed Monoclonal antibody treatment. I don't think the state suffered because of political affiliations, I think the population is old. That "thing" preys on the sick, weak, and aged.
Got something with the median age of the residents of Florida and the rest of the states in it?
DeSantis encourage vaccination. He championed Monoclonal antibody treatment. I don't think the state suffered because of political affiliations, I think the population is old. That "thing" preys on the sick, weak, and aged.
Besides that, haven't you heard? Theirs a CME coming and we're all gonna d... not even notice, unless you're a Ham operator or transoceanic airline or boat radioman
No worries, Michael, I wasn't referring to you when I said cherry picking.
I thought masks and vaccines were supposed to protect us against coronal mass ejections?
Awe shoot... I wasted my bad typing joke. It's all good. I wish that thing would go away.
I thought masks and vaccines were supposed to protect us against coronal mass ejections?
I'm pretty sure they do. I think I saw it on FB or instawhat's or tokititonk or whatever
Cnorm
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You seem to be struggling. I'll answer for you.
In mid August Florida experienced record spikes in new covid cases and deaths and morgues overflowed.
Cases peaked in August and vax rates were and are very high in Florida. I think it's odd to use Florida for a reference frame unless were trying to say the vax is ineffective (it's not, I have problems with forcing it but Florida wasn't forced). Looking at the death rate (in the linked PDF above) the age 65+ death was 10 times the rate the 50-64 age group and the vax rate, in October was 19 out of 22 million people. Good lord... that's a pretty good indicator of how bad what was turned loose on us is. It's a damn good thing it doesn't kill at 10% vs the 2% rate that seems to be the case.
I'm 64, never smoked, not much a drinker (now, sure had fun in my early 20's though).
Fatality rates ranged from 2% of cases to sub 1%. Ethnicity was a factor, White got hit hardest. BTW I'm a terrible example of the stereotypical white southerner. I could care less about race. I work with Native American, Chinese, Taiwanese, Hispanic (my brother in law is Hispanic and he's more successful than I'll ever be and he came from less means. I was lower middle when I was a kid so there's that), Cuban, Anglo. It doesn't matter. Genetically and Biblically we all come from a common origin. We all have flaws, work ethics vary, It's who you are as a person that counts not color.
I'm 64, never smoked, not much a drinker (now, sure had fun in my early 20's though).
Fatality rates ranged from 2% of cases to sub 1%. Ethnicity was a factor, White got hit hardest. BTW I'm a terrible example of the stereotypical white southerner. I could care less about race. I work with Native American, Chinese, Taiwanese, Hispanic (my brother in law is Hispanic and he's more successful than I'll ever be and he came from less means. I was lower middle when I was a kid so there's that), Cuban, Anglo. It doesn't matter. Genetically and Biblically we all come from a common origin. We all have flaws, work ethics vary, It's who you are as a person that counts not color.
I agree. Culture and the attitudes/beliefs you bring with you are much more important than something superficial like skin color.
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August is the not the issue of the point I was trying to make. My point was that the reduction of covid case rate across the country has no correlation with covid related vaccination mandates or heavy handed public health rules. Florida has had the highest or closest to the highest first derivative of cases and deaths compared to more heavy handed states. The trajectory of this virus will be determined by nature, as the data suggests, not mandates, passports or masking rules.
That is my conclusion, it may not be yours and that is ok.
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Yup... same here on all accounts
Florida now has America's lowest COVID rate. Does Ron DeSantis deserve credit? (yahoo.com)
Excerpts:
"But is that true? Did DeSantis “do” anything to improve Florida’s COVID numbers? And does the state’s 180-degree turn somehow prove that more cautious policies “provide no benefits”?
The answer is no.
It’s doubtful even DeSantis himself would claim he’s the reason Florida is recording so many fewer COVID cases today than in August. The virus, we’ve known for some time, comes in waves — waves that ascend, peak and ultimately recede on a remarkably consistent timeline."
"Florida is no exception: Cases started rising there in late June and started falling in late August — right on schedule. Likewise, all the states where COVID cases have fallen the most during the past two weeks — Tennessee, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, Kentucky, North Carolina — are states that endured huge peaks in mid-September. And the higher the peak — the more people recently infected — the sharper the descent."
"The relative numbers are even more damning. Before Delta hit, Florida ranked 26th in the nation for cumulative COVID deaths per capita; now it ranks ninth. What’s more, three of the states above Florida on that list — New Jersey, New York and Massachusetts — suffered the bulk of their deaths right in the beginning of the pandemic, long before vaccinations and other interventions drastically reduced the virus’s deadliness."
"In the end, policy can do only so much during a pandemic. But leaders like DeSantis do have some power to encourage or discourage safety measures, and some responsibility for the behaviors they help to normalize (or not). Their supporters can give them credit for declining case numbers if they choose. But they’re also accountable for how much damage each wave of infection leaves in its wake. "
More details in the full article. Good read, fact based, even handed.
We shall amicably agree to disagree.
I agree "leaders" have no real impact on what the virus does. I think the peak (delta) proves that and I agree with this - "It’s doubtful even DeSantis himself would claim he’s the reason Florida is recording so many fewer COVID cases today than in August." But I can't agree that "leaders" should be blamed or held responsible. I'm pretty fond of freedom. Think of all of the things we can do that can result in our and others death that don't require a bunch of people in congress holding our hands. There's no money to be made in that. Since when is someone else responsible for what I do? New Mexico's native American population suffered tremendously but you won't hear that on the news. Was that the governor's fault (small letters for small people). No. the tribes? No. The virus? Yeah. I can't stand the governor of this state. She's the epitome of what's wrong in this country right now. <rant deleted>
There's too much "importance" being given to politicians. I guarantee you that they are all invested in vaccine companies. Is that a bad thing? No, it's probably a good financial decision, all things considered. If it affects the way they legislate, and I feel like it does, then it becomes a conflict of interest. I don't know if it's true but I've seen memes that they self exempted from vax mandates. All factions. Why is that? Is it true? Who knows. It's pretty easy to say "I'm vaccinated" and not be lying. MMR, Smallpox, etc are vaccinations...
There's too much "importance" being given to politicians. I guarantee you that they are all invested in vaccine companies. Is that a bad thing? No, it's probably a good financial decision, all things considered. If it affects the way they legislate, and I feel like it does, then it becomes a conflict of interest. I don't know if it's true but I've seen memes that they self exempted from vax mandates. All factions. Why is that? Is it true? Who knows. It's pretty easy to say "I'm vaccinated" and not be lying. MMR, Smallpox, etc are vaccinations...
I feel like we may be deviating from lessons learned
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Not really, my lesson learned (although controversial) is the government actions only affect the trajectory of the pandemic at the margin. Its not just US or Florida data, but global data seems to support this.I feel like we may be deviating from lessons learned
My lesson learned is that you cannot convince all or nearly all of the people on the correctness of an action.
Just as you cannot convince everyone that the world is round, not flat.
They're on their own.
Just as you cannot convince everyone that the world is round, not flat.
They're on their own.
Yeah, like laws that mandate people not to kill each other or blow up buildings.
Bad idea, you're not gonna convince them.
Shouldn't even have laws in the first place.
They trounce on my freedom.
Bad idea, you're not gonna convince them.
Shouldn't even have laws in the first place.
They trounce on my freedom.
Oh come on... that's the standard melodramatic talking point for gun control and every other control that "they" want to put on us. You can't mandate morality or mental health successfully. If I got pulled over for speeding and the officer said "sir, do you know how fast your were going". The answer was always "yessir I do, I have no excuse" because I didn't. Once I was able to point at my GPS and say "I do, I can pull the log out of my GPS if you would like to see it"
but I did that because I did know how fast I was going and the only reason he pulled me over was the oversized (offroad) tires I was running.Thankfully I've slowed down and that doesn't happen anymore.
I kind of like freedom. It's something my relatives fought for. I'm in no big hurry to give it up.
Wasn't talking about gun control. That's a presumption on your part. I was talking about laws in general. You argue against mandates that take away your freedoms but there are laws (mandates) that have been in place for centuries that do exactly that. And they are there for good reasons. Or would you like to see us be free and lawless?Oh come on... that's the standard melodramatic talking point for gun control and every other control that "they" want to put on us. You can't mandate morality or mental health successfully. If I got pulled over for speeding and the officer said "sir, do you know how fast your were going". The answer was always "yessir I do, I have no excuse" because I didn't. Once I was able to point at my GPS and say "I do, I can pull the log out of my GPS if you would like to see it"
Thankfully I've slowed down and that doesn't happen anymore.
I kind of like freedom. It's something my relatives fought for. I'm in no big hurry to give it up.
I see a leopard never changes its' spots.
Instead of logic and deduction you fall back on ad hominem arguments.
I'll wait for you to gather some semblance of valid arguments supporting your narrative before re-engaging.
Not holding my breath.
Instead of logic and deduction you fall back on ad hominem arguments.
I'll wait for you to gather some semblance of valid arguments supporting your narrative before re-engaging.
Not holding my breath.
Nooo... I said
not that you were talking about gun control. It's a reference frame.
Are all laws just and fair? No. Should marijuana be decriminalized. On initial thought I don't care if it is, I get drug tested at work so it's easy decision for me. I like to always have clarity. I don't need "help". I'm careful about what I ingest. I don't see the need for it but sometimes people do what you tell them not to do. There are some archaic laws on the books. Should we keep all of those? There are immigration laws in place that are designed to protect the country. Should we stop enforcing them (no but we have). Would you like a plane load of people that aren't here legally dumped in your neighborhood?
I know people that came here illegally decades ago. They are good hard working citizens not criminals. That's not always the case. Look up Angel Maturino Reséndiz. He'll pop right up in any search. I live in the town of Weimar. Look at what he did there. I live not far from the tracks and the old woman that he killed. I know what it's like to come home and have to clear my barn before I go inside my house and clear it before my kids came home.
Although I am a fan of the Sackett western novels I'm not for no laws at all. That would be silly. I don't like politicians, any of them. They don't serve, as intended. They aren't to be trusted so easily.
How about this, If Rand Paul, a medical doctor, proposed a law that said vaccines should not be mandated and that they should be a matter of personal choice, would you accept that? I already know the answer. I wouldn't want a broad based mandate like that anymore than I want the existing "not quite a mandate" that has been put out there to be put in place. It's not the governments job to do that. It never has been. It's outside of the powers of the President. Any of them.
I don't care if people want to take the shot. If it minimizes the symptoms that's great.
Time to paint a rocket.
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