1/100 Saturn 1B clone

[dtomko]

The PDFs for the wraps are on the Lansbergen paper models site here:
https://www.lansbergen.net/eng/index.htm

Use the "models" link on the left and scroll down (don't mind the Dutch!) until you see Mercury Redstone. There are PDFs for the Freedom 7 and Liberty Bell 7 versions scaled for the Estes kit. Also included are diagrams for triming the fins to be more accurate and painting tips for the capsule. All free!

I did have to resize mine to 112% with my Epson printer. Eric has included a first page with a strip so you can get the circumference right. These wraps are incredible! You'll just have to paint the fins. I printed mine on glossy photo paper last night. I am going to give the ink a couple of days to dry before I overcoat and apply with spray adhesive.

Drew

 

[foose4string]

Just what I needed. Thanks! Not sure when I'll get to it, not looking forward to the amount of sanding required, but I think I'll print these out just to see. Once I do that, I may just do it sooner than I thought!

 

[GlennW]

Originally posted by dtomko
The Atlas hasn't yet flown and I finished it 2 years ago at least It's coming out this weekend, though. The Mercury Atlas was one of the best, if not the best, scale kits Estes ever produced. That shine is from the beautiful foil material that came in the kit. It's tough and hasn't lifted. It's also accurate being in strips that go on the BT. I wish they would bring this one back. I added the clear plastic fins; balsa ones came with the kit.

Drew, I'm building my Atlas as we speak and I'm happy to hear the foil wraps are tough, because as I looked at it in the box I thought there were so darn many of them that some were bound to start coming off at some point. I can't wait to finish this one and fly it but I am taking my sweet time as usual. Tell you this, I am going to be scared of messing up those foil strips when I put them on, guess I'm going to need a steady hand and a sharp blade!

Agree that this is one of the most true to scale Estes kits ever, the detail is fantastic.

Glenn

 

[BobH48]

Originally posted by dtomko
I printed mine on glossy photo paper last night.

Drew,

See if you get some "presentation paper" to print the wraps on. It's 32lb. paper and glossy like photo paper but much easier to work with.

The brand I have is Hammermill Office One Business Gloss. I got it at Staples but I've seen similar paper elsewhere.

 

[dtomko]

First flight of the Saturn 1B was today at METRA launch. I used a D12-3. In the end I added a bit more than 2 ozs. of nose weight; with a fishing weight, a washer, and the epoxy, it came to about 2.4 oz of weight. This is not enough. It was a good boost for about 50 -75 feet and then if corkscrewed a couple of times. I think it got to about 150 feet. The chutes all opened (3 total) and it came down nicely with absolutely no damage. I used 2 Fliskits 16" chutes for the bottom and 1 18" chute for the upper section. The lower section came down a little faster than I would have liked, but not a scratch to the fins. I may change one of the chutes to an 18" next flight.

Anyway, I think it needs probably closer to 3 ozs of nose weight. With that much weight I will think about a larger 24 mm motor as well. I am also thinking of trying to add 4 A10-Ps with the central D. That would make a very cool boost!
Here it is on the pad.

Drew

 

[dtomko]

Going up. I really wish I had gotten the whole thing in this shot

 

[dtomko]

A nice shot right at ejection. If you look closely you can see the sections just separating and the chutes just popping out.

 

[dtomko]

This one isn't worth much except to see part of the chutes

BTW, I used the original sling method for the upper section. If you do this, you need to move up the location of the wire loop that sticks out of the Service Module. I didn't and with the added nose weight, it would have come down on the escape tower. I wound up adding another sling to go around the capsule. It's too busy now, so I will eventually redo the wire loop.

All in all I am pleased. No damage and I can easily add a bit more nose weight.

Drew

 

[dwmzmm]

I can "help" by adding a few pics of my old (and I do mean old)
Centuri Saturn 1-B model; the links below (for the most part)
has captions and are self explanatory...

NASA Houston Rocket Club Christmas Launch (December 2004) @
Johnson Spaceflight Center

https://www.nasarocketclub.com/gallery/Christmas-Party/DSC01870s

https://www.nasarocketclub.com/gallery/Christmas-Party/100B7660

Challenger 498 Section Club Launch (April 2005) @ Rushing Park,
Katy, TX

https://www.challenger498.org/gallery/album04/IMG013

https://www.challenger498.org/gallery/album04/IMG014

https://www.challenger498.org/gallery/album04/IMG015

Drew, as a side note, your Saturn 1-B should not have behaved the way it did in flight. It's possible it may be a bit too tail heavy
(the Centuri model has hollowed vacuform fins, and the Estes
original 1/70 model also has hollowed fins using cardstock that is
shaped with riblets). Should you make modifications to correct the problem, you might need to try something like a swing test
to make sure it stays nose pointed forward during the test. Hope
you'll get to fly your Saturn 1-B again; it's a very beautifully done
model that deserves its place in the sky!!

 

[Fred]

Nice to see your Sat1b go up. Hope the Atlas does someday. Good job Drew those ejection shots are neat
Cheers
fred

 

[dtomko]

Thanks! The nose weight is easy to fix and I may try it out again this weekend on a D. It won't go that high, but that's OK. I'd like to get better photos of it. It looked awesome coming off the pad.

As I mentioned earlier, I was aware it would need a bunch of nose weight with the resin fins and I went by the CG on George Gassaway's drawings. At least on my model, the CG needs to be farther forward than the drawings indicate. Swing testing this is not an easy matter with all the external details that might get crunched by wrapping a string around it!

After this and the "dramatic" flight of the Gemini Titan, I was too spooked to fly the Atlas!

Drew

 

[paul graf]

I've been worried about the weight of the 8 resin cast fins, but I always figured scale models are NOT meant to be flown too high. Maybe I should come up with some vacuform fins, but the thought of trimming & fitting eight vacuform fins is a drag.

Good luck with the next flight. The Merc. Atlas is usually a safe flight on clam days.

Paul

 

[rocketking]

In spite of some additional nose weight, it looks like a good 'shakedown' flight to me, if a little too "shake-y" for your liking.

Sorry I missed that one, but NEMROC was showing me a great time in MA saturday, and I missed their launch sunday.

Give some thought to competition with your birds, Drew. As NAR Prez says, your quality of finish shows that you'll do well!

 

[dtomko]

I am quite happy with the first flight! Adding nose weight is no problem, and Paul, you are right; I wouldn't want this baby to go too high anyway! I'll take the resin fins over the work of cutting and trimming vacuum formed fins.

I do sort of like the idea of adding 4 plugged minis, though . . .

By the way, Paul, do you have any lower shrouds left? I would like to make a Saturn I Block II to go along with this. I don't need the vac-formed wraps, just the shroud.

Drew

 

[dtomko]

By the way, if you're thinking of making a 1/100 Saturn 1 Block II, BT-70 is almost perfect for the second stage tube. The real thing was 220" in diameter, and a BT-70 is 2.217" in diameter. A BT-70 to 60 balsa transition can be sanded down to fit a BT-58, and if you have a Gauchito, you have the upper section, just minus the escape tower. Now where did I put those styrene rods . . . .

Drew

 

[dtomko]

Here is a complete parts list for a 1/100 Saturn 1B. This will recreate the Estes single D engine version; the measurements are slightly different for the Centuri 2 engine cluster version:

Body tubes:
8 Totally Tubular T-.700 tubes, each 7 7/8” long

1 BT-50 core engine tube, 11” long

1 BT-80, 7 5/8” long

1 BT-80 1 3/8” long, cut and spliced with an extra piece of BT, a shade under 5/8” wide, to make it 2.7” in diameter

1 BT-58 (available in the Gauchito)

1 BT-80 coupler, 1 1/2" long (can be made by cutting down a piece of BT-80)

To mount the fuel tubes on the BT-50, I used balsa strips and sanded and test fit. I would suggest BT 50-55 centering rings with several layers peeled off the outside. You’ll need to test fit this assembly.

Centering rings – 4 - BT-50/80 (2 trimmed to fit the BT-58; 1- hand cut BT-50/expanded BT-80

BT-50 engine block and engine hook

3 parachutes – 1 18” for the upper section; 2 at least 16” for the lower.

Nose weight – probably 3 ozs. needed with the resin fins

Apollo capsule set – I used the plastic set from the current Estes Saturn V. You can use the Gauchito capsule as a base, but you will have to add the boost protective cover details (use thin styrene strip) and scratch an escape tower (see the thread on the Gauchito to Little Joe II conversion). You might want to check with Estes on the plastic Saturn V set.

Resin fin and lower shroud set from Paul Graf.

Vacuum formed corrugated wraps from Paul Graf.

1 sheet of corrugated paper for the thin strip at the bottom of the second stage

Decals from Tango Papa – I used the markings set and the roll patterns/CSM set

.005” styrene sheet for the LM shroud

.010” sheet for details on the shroud

3/16" launch lugs and balsa standoff

I am probably going to tackle a Saturn 1 Block II, and if I do I will post tips on scratching an escape tower.

Anyone else taking this on, please post pics!

Thank you to everyone who has posted in this thread for help on this!

Drew

 

[Rocketcrab]

Drew, thanks for posting that parts list!!

 

[rosko_racer]

Outstanding model and outstanding list. Thanks for sharing.

- Rosko

 

[Fred]

Thanks drew for posting that parts list. I apreciate your trouble.
Cheers
fred

 

[Justin]

Drew, that list, and people like you, make this forum fantastic.


I want to build one...

 

[dtomko]

Justin,

Go for it!

Thanks, everyone! I couldn't even have thought about a project like this without the resources here on TRF.

I still need to add more nose weight and fly her again, but I've been swamped with work . . . and baseball playoffs . . .

Now I'm torn; do I start the Saturn V or start a Saturn 1 Block II

Drew

 

[Fred]

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV I think
Cheers
Fred

 

[Leo]

Saturn 1 Block II no doudt.

V's are a dime a dozen.

 

[foose4string]

I say the V. That fleet of yours is begging for a SatV. As common as they are, I never tire of seeing them. The Block II would be cool too, but seeing a well documented SatV build would help me out. I've got one in the box that I've been shying away from for the last two years, too afraid I'm gonna screw it up.

 

[Rocketcrab]

Originally posted by foose4string
I've got one in the box that I've been shying away from for the last two years, too afraid I'm gonna screw it up.

I used to get those heebie-jeebies too. But then I figured, "I CAN do this" and besides, if it doesn't come out perfect, who cares? It will never be 100% percent perfect anyway. Relax, open the box, and go to it. It'll be fine.

 

[foose4string]

Originally posted by Rocketcrab
I used to get those heebie-jeebies too. But then I figured, "I CAN do this" and besides, if it doesn't come out perfect, who cares? It will never be 100% percent perfect anyway. Relax, open the box, and go to it. It'll be fine.

Thing is, I got one of the Estes Sat V kits for Christmas back in the early 80's. I was a kid. I remember getting about 4 steps into it and messing something up, and I never touched it after that. I still feel guilty about it. Wish I knew what happened to that kit. Looking back, it was probably something that could have been easily fixed, but I didn't know any better at the time. I still have that hanging over my head, but it was also the same reason I bought the new kit, so I could have a second chance to redeem myself. It's a different kit now, though.

 

[vjp]

Start a build thread, and ask questions! The answers will come flooding in - I've built a couple and started working on a FAQ for attaching the wraps at one point (I strongly recommend polyurethane (i.e. 'gorilla') glue for these).

 

[dtomko]

Originally posted by foose4string
Thing is, I got one of the Estes Sat V kits for Christmas back in the early 80's. I was a kid. I remember getting about 4 steps into it and messing something up, and I never touched it after that. I still feel guilty about it. Wish I knew what happened to that kit. Looking back, it was probably something that could have been easily fixed, but I didn't know any better at the time. I still have that hanging over my head, but it was also the same reason I bought the new kit, so I could have a second chance to redeem myself. It's a different kit now, though.

I can't count the number of rockets I messed up as a kid . . . or as an adult! For example, I had an original Interceptor way back when and I crushed the BT accidentally after attaching a couple of the fins. I was so dejected I left the parts in the bag until they eventually got cleaned out. Sheesh, I wish I had that bag now. But even better, now I have a clone that flies

There are few mess ups that can't be fixed these days. You wouldn't believe the number of half attempted parts I made with my Energia-Buran; some of them were pretty ugly!

Start the V and take you time and post pictures and ask questions.

Drew