009752 - Pro Series II™ E2X® Booster with Hobbyline case?

[SolarYellow]

Had a brainstorm.

Looking at the Estes site, noticed the 009752 - Pro Series II™ E2X® Booster https://estesrockets.com/product/009752-pro-series-ii-e2x-booster/ has really nicely airfoiled/beveled fins, tapered toward the tips. Making something that nice on your own could suck up a ton of hours. Found a blog post where someone builds it, and it looks reasonably beefy for mid-power use.

Thinking it would be a super-easy build to get that, a length of 2-inch tube, and the 2-inch nose cone, and slap them all together for a super-simple 3FNC build. Add recovery equipment and whatever you want to do for tracking if anything, and you're done. But I'd want it to zip a little, so I'd want to use my AeroTech 29/40-120 case. I see the Estes screw-on retainer in the marketing photos of the assembly, so presuming it's included and will work with that case. Anyone know for sure?

ETA: I realized this is probably very close to the OOP Ascender kit, although the kit has some extra junk like a payload bay. Possibly primed for conversion to DD, etc. Also found the 2-inch nose cone seems to be OOS everywhere, so this whole brainstorm might be pointless.

EATA: I realized these setups are out there for BT-55 and BT-60 tubes, for which nose cones are readily available. It's not obvious, because all the reviews show it using the included adaptor that replaces the 18mm motor retainer in an ARF kit and sliding over that, but it looks like the part that slides over that is just a BT-55 tube, so a chunk of BT-55 coupler should connect it to a standard BT-55 tube. Open up the "nozzle" that is meant to direct the -0 blast up into the nozzle of the sustainer when it's used as a booster, so the ejection charge can freely fill the tube, and it should go together super easy. Or at least it looks like that from my keyboard. I have some extra BT-55 nose cones and tubes sitting around. Might have to get one and slap together a quick and dirty D12 4FNC rocket just to see how quick, fun and easy it is. Would be a cool cheap beater rocket, especially if it could fit the 24/40 case or various AT SU composite motors.

 

[dhbarr]

Had a brainstorm.

Looking at the Estes site, noticed the 009752 - Pro Series II™ E2X® Booster https://estesrockets.com/product/009752-pro-series-ii-e2x-booster/ has really nicely airfoiled/beveled fins, tapered toward the tips. Making something that nice on your own could suck up a ton of hours. Found a blog post where someone builds it, and it looks reasonably beefy for mid-power use.

Thinking it would be a super-easy build to get that, a length of 2-inch tube, and the 2-inch nose cone, and slap them all together for a super-simple 3FNC build. Add recovery equipment and whatever you want to do for tracking if anything, and you're done. But I'd want it to zip a little, so I'd want to use my AeroTech 29/40-120 case. I see the Estes screw-on retainer in the marketing photos of the assembly, so presuming it's included and will work with that case. Anyone know for sure?

ETA: I realized this is probably very close to the OOP Ascender kit, although the kit has some extra junk like a payload bay. Possibly primed for conversion to DD, etc. Also found the 2-inch nose cone seems to be OOS everywhere, so this whole brainstorm might be pointless.

EATA: I realized these setups are out there for BT-55 and BT-60 tubes, for which nose cones are readily available. It's not obvious, because all the reviews show it using the included adaptor that replaces the 18mm motor retainer in an ARF kit and sliding over that, but it looks like the part that slides over that is just a BT-55 tube, so a chunk of BT-55 coupler should connect it to a standard BT-55 tube. Open up the "nozzle" that is meant to direct the -0 blast up into the nozzle of the sustainer when it's used as a booster, so the ejection charge can freely fill the tube, and it should go together super easy. Or at least it looks like that from my keyboard. I have some extra BT-55 nose cones and tubes sitting around. Might have to get one and slap together a quick and dirty D12 4FNC rocket just to see how quick, fun and easy it is. Would be a cool cheap beater rocket, especially if it could fit the 24/40 case or various AT SU composite motors.

Works fine, just as you say.

 

[bad_idea]

The biggest problem I see is that the nose cones for 2" are out of stock, and lately out of stock pro series parts have a habit of quietly disappearing from the Estes site after being sold out for a while. Gone for good, maybe? I ordered a 2" cone, coupler, and tube for a friend back in July when we combined orders to save on shipping. When I decided during the Thanksgiving sale that I might as well order some 2" parts for myself (since Quest still isn't selling individual 50mm parts again since their website apocalypse, and I don't believe they ever sold a coupler in that size), the 2" cones were all gone.

It may be possible to adapt a nose cone designed for Centauri ST-20 tubing, but Erockets may be the only source for those. If you have to fall back to 3D printing a custom cone, well, you could 3D print a fin can too, and for any particular size of tube.

BTW, the pro series booster is potentially cheaper at AC Supply, depending relative thresholds of free shipping, whatever else you're buying, etc.

 

[Bruiser]

I just ordered 2" nose cone and some body tubes and couplers on Black Friday and they have already arrived. I just checked and the body tubes and couplers are still in stock but they are out of nose cones. I also bought some BT-80 tubes and a NC-80K nose cone. They had been out of those nose cones for awhile

I was going to order a couple of BT-65 tubes but they were out of stock on Friday. I checked again on Cyber Monday and they had them again so I ordered them and a Majestic kit and that order has already arrived.

You just have to keep on checking.

The part I haven' been able to find in some time are the 29mm motor tubes

-Bob

 

[DigBaddy]

This build is that PSII booster, two pieces of tube and the nosecone. Hopefully it comes back in stock. Light enough for 24/40 loads too. Biggest I've put in it so far was a F52C.

Great way to build a nice rocket.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/what-did-you-do-rocket-wise-today.48649/post-2255468
I wish more PSII parts were available more consistently. Nice ways to builds some decent mid power rockets. Yeah, where did the 29mm motor tubes go?

 

[bad_idea]

I just ordered 2" nose cone and some body tubes and couplers on Black Friday and they have already arrived. I just checked and the body tubes and couplers are still in stock but they are out of nose cones. I also bought some BT-80 tubes and a NC-80K nose cone. They had been out of those nose cones for awhile

I was going to order a couple of BT-65 tubes but they were out of stock on Friday. I checked again on Cyber Monday and they had them again so I ordered them and a Majestic kit and that order has already arrived.

You just have to keep on checking.

The part I haven' been able to find in some time are the 29mm motor tubes

The NC-80K has been mostly in stock and is a regular part. It's not disappeared from the website for good when it's been out of stock. But the 3" and 4" Pro Series cones went out of stock early in the year and have been gone from the website for months. I guess we'll see what happens with 2".

Re. 29mm motor tubes, BMS has you covered. They call it T52H and sell it in 34" lengths with or without foil lining.

 

[SolarYellow]

This build is that PSII booster, two pieces of tube and the nosecone. Hopefully it comes back in stock. Light enough for 24/40 loads too. Biggest I've put in it so far was a F52C.

Great way to build a nice rocket.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/what-did-you-do-rocket-wise-today.48649/post-2255468
I wish more PSII parts were available more consistently. Nice ways to builds some decent mid power rockets. Yeah, where did the 29mm motor tubes go?

That is exactly what I'm thinking with this thread. Stoked to see it all works, and almost relieved to see I'm not the first person to think of something so obvious. I would probably use just one length of tubing, as I expect an Eggfinder Mini and Quark in the nose cone giving it all the stability it needs. G64-10W should be suitable at the dry lake.

So this idea is definitely going to happen with the BT-55 and BT-60, since I already have all the parts to complete those rockets. Fun way to go out with the godson and burn through some C6-7s and D12-7s and smile a bunch. Not have to chase it far or care if the desert dings it up. Will try to get a 2-inch NC in my hands. I did send them a note through their contact form asking if they intend to have more stock in the future.

The NC-80K has been mostly in stock and is a regular part. It's not disappeared from the website for good when it's been out of stock. But the 3" and 4" Pro Series cones went out of stock early in the year and have been gone from the website for months. I guess we'll see what happens with 2".

Re. 29mm motor tubes, BMS has you covered. They call it T52H and sell it in 34" lengths with or without foil lining.

I screwed up. Several weeks ago, the NC-80K was OOS on the main Estes web site and at all the retailers I checked. Found it on the EDU site and bought a few, paid the shipping. Just included one in my Cyber Monday order because, what the heck, it was only $3.05 with all the discounts, before tax. I'll be watching the 2-inch cone pho shizzle.

My incoming BMS order has two lengths of 29mm MMT foil lined and one length unlined.


As for the 3-inch PSII stuff, based on my research so far, I believe that the following are both the same as the Estes 3-inch tubing:

74MM X 18" BODY TUBE (THIN WALL 3" TUBE)
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Build...er_Tubes/74mm_x_18_Body_Tube_Thin_Wall_3_tube

BMS

T300-34

3.000x2.930x.035x34in long

https://www.balsamachining.com/#
As well, I think the ogive nose cones they sell to go with those tubes are likely the same as the Big Daddy/Doorknob cone, or would at least be a suitable alternative to buying a BD or DK kit:

PNC-3.00" (FOR THIN WALL 74MM TUBES)
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Build...Power_Nose_Cones/PNC-3-00_For_Thin_Wall_Tubes
BMS

PNC300K

$12.00

PLASTIC Ogive for T300 tube

T300

3.000​

2.930​

11.00​

 

[Initiator001]

I have used one of the Pro Series II booster units as a basis for a rocket model.
Using the fin unit with an Estes 2" Pro Series II body tube and nose cone I created a model called 'Emanon' ('NoName' spelled backwards).

I flew the model at NARAM-56 with an AeroTech F20 single-use motor.

 

[bad_idea]

As for the 3-inch PSII stuff, based on my research so far, I believe that the following are both the same as the Estes 3-inch tubing:

74MM X 18" BODY TUBE (THIN WALL 3" TUBE)
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Build...er_Tubes/74mm_x_18_Body_Tube_Thin_Wall_3_tube

BMS

T300-34

3.000x2.930x.035x34in long

https://www.balsamachining.com/#

Yes, I believe so too. I know for a fact that DBRM and Big Daddy nose cones fit it just fine.

As well, I think the ogive nose cones they sell to go with those tubes are likely the same as the Big Daddy/Doorknob cone, or would at least be a suitable alternative to buying a BD or DK kit:

PNC-3.00" (FOR THIN WALL 74MM TUBES)
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Build...Power_Nose_Cones/PNC-3-00_For_Thin_Wall_Tubes
BMS

PNC300K

$12.00

PLASTIC Ogive for T300 tube

T300

3.000​

2.930​

11.00​

The Big Daddy/Doorknob cone is only around 9" long. Sadly the only way I know how to get it is by cannibalizing a complete kit. Even when Big Daddies were down to $25 on Amazon, that felt wrong. But so far as I can tell, it's the lightest hollow 3" cone around, 60g when the shoulder is trimmed square.

 

[SolarYellow]

Checked the Estes site again, nose cones were in stock. Got everything coming this way.

 

[bad_idea]

Checked the Estes site again, nose cones were in stock. Got everything coming this way.

That's great; I'm happy to be wrong!

 

[SolarYellow]

I have used one of the Pro Series II booster units as a basis for a rocket model.
Using the fin unit with an Estes 2" Pro Series II body tube and nose cone I created a model called 'Emanon' ('NoName' spelled backwards).

The image looks like you used two of the 13.5-inch sections of tubing, correct?

 

[Bruiser]

I was just looking up some info for you regarding lengths.

The 2" nose cone is 9 .75 inches

The Pro Series booster is 6 inches

So you have 15.75

Just for reference the Prowler is 34 inches so to build a similar size you would need a 18.25 body tube

The Ascender is 42 inches so that would mean a 26.25 body tube

Seems like two of the 13.5 inch long body tubes would be great. You could probably put a laundry shelf near the coupler if you were planning on an engine ejection deployment.

Just thinking on it a little because it would be very similar to the rocket I plan to build with the 2" parts I just ordered.

-Bob

 

[SolarYellow]

In my sims, I usually go as short as I can stuff everything in there, as that yields the highest apogees. I'm usually putting a lot of motor in it for whatever "it" is, so with an Eggfinder Mini and Quark plus a few little LiPos in the nose, that takes care of stability. I haven't put the sim together yet, but I'm thinking along the lines of one of the 13-in tubes and motor eject with a Quark-activated hot wire chute minder for the DD. Bought two cones, four tubes, and four couplers, so I can mess around and try different things. Airframes are by far the cheapest part of this whole thing. It's like they say in the gun forums: By the time you've worn out a pistol, you've spent so much money on ammo and range time that it really doesn't matter whether you started with an expensive pistol or a cheap one.

I looked at close-enough sims for the Booster-55 and Booster-60 this afternoon (have two of each of all three sizes of booster coming), will save more detailed OR work for when I get parts in my hands and can measure and weigh them. For the BT-55 and BT-60 versions, I'm working on the idea of an inexpensive "utility rocket" that can burn through a pile of D12-7s and maybe C6-5s or C6-7s with an adaptor. I won't feel bad if Estes' Chinese plastic fins get dragged across the desert a little. I realize it would bug me to put a ton of time into finishing wood fins nicely and then have them get badly beat up. I'll go short on the 60s, but can make the 55s a little longer and will probably use a baffle to keep the field prep as simple as possible. Kinda like a modern-day Cherokee D.

 

[DigBaddy]

I have also built two inexpensive "utility rockets" with the BT60 and BT55 boosters. They sure work great to get something cheap and tough built quickly.

 

[SolarYellow]

And down the rabbit hole I go...

https://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estes83/83est48.html
The Booster-55 looks ready-made to semi-clone that Challenger-II. Will have to research more details.

 

[SolarYellow]

Got the Booster-55 in today's mail. Measured and weighed the assembly and components, made a "Booster-55.ork" file to use as a basis for designing rockets around it. The rocket below uses a chunk of coupler to connect the airframe to the BT-55 chunk; haven't yet decided whether to stick with that or peel and do one-piece. A baffle and a 15-in nylon chute. The nose cone is copied from @K'Tesh's Cherokee E .ork file. Actual PNC-55AC is a little pointier, might be secant rather than tangent ogive. Set the overall length to match the 21.5 of the original Cherokee-D and it looks just right. A couple grams of clay, and stability is right on with a D12-7 giving ~1350ft flights under Mojave conditions. Need to make adjustments as I go for paint, but I am thinking hard about Monokote instead of paint for the airframe. With D12 power, I'm above optimum mass and every additional gram shaves a little off apogee.

Overall, I think I'm going to like this.

Wish I could have bought a whole bunch of these assemblies for 99 cents on clearance a few years ago like some other people here.

One detail I realized is the motor retainer butts up firmly against the back of the fin can and holds the fins in position. So it might be possible to skip the glue and set it up as a takedown model, very compact and secure for travel with the fins removed.

 

[SolarYellow]

Was passing by the LHS today, and stopped in to see if they had any balsa sheets that were straight. After I'd paid for the only two straight sheets in the store, I noticed they had two Booster-55s still sitting on the rocket shelf for $2.50 each. So now I have four. And I know where I can get a reasonably-priced 2-inch booster quickly and without paying shipping if I ever need it.

 

[Trident]

A couple years ago Hobby Lobby was clearancing Booster-55s for 99 cents. They put two on the shelf at a time. I would buy both. on my next visit, two more. This went on until I had a dozen, and wised up to their little game!

I have built 3-4 so far. Fun little builds. Here are a couple:

 

[SolarYellow]

I went Booster-60 for my first build with these. Haven't had weather to fly it yet. Definitely learned a few things. Mulling around whether to tune it up before I fly it, or fly it as is and then do-over. Or maybe build the other one using lessons learned, fly them both the same day, and then rebuild the first one as something else entirely.

What are you painting the fin cans with? I have a can of Krylon Fusion primer for plastics, have thought about that.

 

[SolarYellow]

I watched a YT video of some guy assembling an Estes Chiller rocket. It occurred to me that it might be possible to just swap out the fin can for a Booster-55 fin can and still use the Chiller's Alpha-style fins, yielding a native 24x70-powered rocket. That would be a lot more interesting than something as big and heavy as a Chiller trying to fly with 18mm BP motors. Anyone tried that with the Chiller or other ARFs?

 

[SolarYellow]

Collecting posts I've spread around over the months about my Booster-55 and Booster-60 builds, rather than retyping it all:

I have a couple I built from the Booster-55 and Booster-60 fin cans. Just peel off the short chunk of BT that's glued to the plastic fin can, grind it smooth, and glue on an actual body tube. The cool thing about them is, as long as you fly BP motors without a thrust ring, the motor retainer cap holds/locks the fins in position. So you don't have to actually glue the fins in and you can remove them whenever needed. It's a take-down rocket. This makes the rockets super easy to stuff in my luggage when I fly out west to where the dry lakes are. It also makes the fins trivially replaceable if anything happens to one. And you can mix and match between the black fins of the Booster-55 and the red fins of the Booster-60.

And when I've had a chute tangle and streamer in on the lake bed, I just replaced the one damaged fin while I was changing the motor for the next flight.

I keep being tempted to buy other ARFs with different fin shapes and try swapping the fins onto these fin cans. What I should do is model the root connection and then print my own fins.

Will post up when my cheap-on-fleabay Tandem-X set comes in regarding whether the Amazon fins fit in these fin cans. Would be a fun and easy upgrade for the Amazon to use the Booster-55 can and run 24mm motors. Or whatever version of mix and match you want.

My PSII booster rocket is still in progress. Probably won't go the PSII route again, as it took sorting through two kits to come up with enough straight fin halves for three straight fins. That's no longer quite the super-cheap fin can it looks like. At 99 cents, I'd buy them all. At any current price I'm aware of, I think there are better options.

So tonight, I tried the Amazon fins out in a Booster-55. They slot right in and are positively retained by the motor retaining cap, but the interfacing portions are thinner, so the fins just flop around in the slot. You could still use them together, but you would have to permanently glue the fins in, losing a lot of the advantages of the modular Booster-55 and Booster-60 utility rocket fin cans. If I was going to do that, I would use the JB Weld Plastic Bonder epoxy, as it actually bubbles and expands during cure to be super gap filling.

The Amazon fins appear to be the same as Chiller fins. Same basic shape, roughly the same airframe diameter, it would be weird if they weren't the same molded part. So the Booster-55 fin can could be an easy upgrade to D power for the Amazon if you don't mind it staying assembled. (The Amazon uses a quarter-turn locking system instead of threads, so the Booster-55 won't actually work as a booster.) The fin can swap wouldn't work for the Chiller without somehow acquiring a fourth fin. However, you can just use it as intended and make your Chiller a two-stager if you want.

 

[BEC]

Any of the BT-50/55/60 models that have the molded-in screw on motor retainer and take slot-in fins can take any fins from any of those models. The interface is the same. So Spirit, Nova, Solaris, Red Ryder, Flying Colors, LGM0015, Phantom Blue, Helios, and a bunch of others (including the Chiller, I think), as well as all the parts in the Mix-N-Match 55/60 sets can all be swapped around and with the Booster-55/Booster-60 which were created for/released with some of these. The legs from the MAV are also part of this family of parts and will interchange.

The Amazon is older and while it might have been an inspiration for these "ARF" parts, as you've found they're not interchangeable.

Others which have fins that interchange into this same "system" include the Galaxy Glow, the Ghost Chaser (cool translucent blue fins) and the just-announced Cosmic Ray and Cosmic Cargo. These last two have the Alpha shaped fins (which are quite close to the same size and shape as those on an Alpha III). And of course there's the current Astrocam carrier rocket.

And yes, there is no need to glue these fins in, which is really handy for taking a sport model on a trip.