Applewhite 38mm Cinco

Since persons unknown took off with my King Kraken, the 38mm Art Applewhite Cinco is the only HPR rocket I have left that is built. I really like the original finish and it was appreciated by kids but the decals I made up are peeling off. I want to redo it the same way but don't know the best way to go about it.

My plan right now is to strip off the damages decals and replace them with new ones. Then, unlike the first time around, paint the whole thing with Future.

Is there a better/more durable way of doing this?

The Cinco is constructed of foamcore - I don't think that you would want to try using any of the decal remover solvents on it. I certainly wouldn't. Maybe the best thing to do is to resurface the Cinco with white contact paper, and apply your new decals to that. Just remove what is loose, then cover the rocket all over with the contact paper. I don't think that it would add all that much weight (it is a high-power rocket, after all ) and the Cinco is quite light in weight anyway.

My 38mm Cinco is still in primer, and still only has made one flight. (Which is fitting, because it is named after a Plymouth, after all... )

Mark \\.

MarkII said:

The Cinco is constructed of foamcore - I don't think that you would want to try using any of the decal remover solvents on it. I certainly wouldn't. Maybe the best thing to do is to resurface the Cinco with white contact paper, and apply your new decals to that. Just remove what is loose, then cover the rocket all over with the contact paper. I don't think that it would add all that much weight (it is a high-power rocket, after all ) and the Cinco is quite light in weight anyway.

My 38mm Cinco is still in primer, and still only has made one flight. (Which is fitting, because it is named after a Plymouth, after all... )

Mark \\.

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I think that all the old decals can be removed by just rubbing them away. I might have to do a little sanding but that's doubtful

THe originals were put on with clear decal paper. I'm out of that and will probably print it on white paper. I'll have to cut to shape anyway.

I guess I want to find a way to 1) make sure they stick and 2) stay protected.

Kids always liked this one at the launches.

JAL

JAL3 said:

I think that all the old decals can be removed by just rubbing them away.

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Ah, got it. Well, what did you do to prep the surface the first time? Did you have any problems with air bubbles? I don't know, maybe putting on a coat of primer, then one of Gloss White might help (it seems to work well for tubes...), then apply the decals. I have heard that the Microscale products work well to give decals enhanced adhesion.

JAL3 said:

Kids always liked this one at the launches.

JAL

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I can see why. I always liked that decor on your Cinco.

Another possibility is to get a quote from StickerShock for printing your design onto vinyl.

Mark \\.

MarkII said:

Ah, got it. Well, what did you do to prep the surface the first time? Did you have any problems with air bubbles? I don't know, maybe putting on a coat of primer, then one of Gloss White might help (it seems to work well for tubes...), then apply the decals. I have heard that the Microscale products work well to give decals enhanced adhesion.


I can see why. I always liked that decor on your Cinco.

Another possibility is to get a quote from StickerShock for printing your design onto vinyl.

Mark \\.

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I think the first time was just on the foamboard. I painted the nether regions red but I don't remember doing anything up top. I don't mind painting it this time around. Would that really help? Finishing is my weakest area.

As to the vinyl, I thought that was all monochrome.

I love my Cinco 38mm. I've flown it on a wide variety of motors from G motors up to an I161W.

Recently I flew it on a G339N, really ripped off the pad and the rugged foamboard construction took the abuse in stride.

I'm highly thinking about building another one and glassing it so I can fly it on the larger Warp-9 motors such as the H669N and H999N.

JAL3 said:

I think the first time was just on the foamboard. I painted the nether regions red but I don't remember doing anything up top. I don't mind painting it this time around. Would that really help? Finishing is my weakest area.

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I think it might, but I'm not 100% sure. And if it did, I wouldn't be able to say for sure exactly why (but I have theories). I just have a gut feeling about it. I'd like to see what others think, though. I don't recall; did you make sure that the top seam was filled in good and that it was completely flush with the top surface, and that the surface prep was even all the way around?

JAL3 said:

As to the vinyl, I thought that was all monochrome.

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No, apparently he can do color, too. Check out what Mark is planning to do for the Citation Patriot here. Whether or not he can execute your design in vinyl is another story. You would have to contact him to find that out. Getting the decals made in vinyl might be the best way to go, if he can do them the way you want them to be done.

I'm just trying to brainstorm here, that's all.

Mark \\.

Donaldsrockets said:

I love my Cinco 38mm. I've flown it on a wide variety of motors from G motors up to an I161W.

Recently I flew it on a G339N, really ripped off the pad and the rugged foamboard construction took the abuse in stride.

I'm highly thinking about building another one and glassing it so I can fly it on the larger Warp-9 motors such as the H669N and H999N.

Click to expand...

I love mine too and want to restore it to respectability. I've never flown it on anything but an H and those are hard to come by without a LEUP. My club launches are so small that they are not worth the motor vendors' time.

MarkII said:

I think it might, but I'm not 100% sure. And if it did, I wouldn't be able to say for sure exactly why (but I have theories). I just have a gut feeling about it. I'd like to see what others think, though.


No, apparently he can do color, too. Check out what Mark is planning to do for the Citation Patriot here. Whether or not he can execute your design in vinyl is another story. You would have to contact him to find that out. Getting the decals made in vinyl might be the best way to go, if he can do them the way you want them to be done.

I'm just trying to brainstorm here, that's all.

Mark \\.

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That's all I look for. Its the reason I post.

I fugure that if I did this as a "just me" hobby, I'd still be working way way up from EX2s and RTFs. When I got restarted as a BAR, I wanted to learn to do things right.

Donaldsrockets said:

I love my Cinco 38mm. I've flown it on a wide variety of motors from G motors up to an I161W.

Recently I flew it on a G339N, really ripped off the pad and the rugged foamboard construction took the abuse in stride.

I'm highly thinking about building another one and glassing it so I can fly it on the larger Warp-9 motors such as the H669N and H999N.

Click to expand...

I can't imagine what this model would look like going up on an H999N! Talk about peeling decals!

The foamboard that is used for it is the toughest kind I have ever seen. It is certainly not your average craft store foamcore! Yet it is not Gatorfoam, either, because the top and bottom layers aren't wood.

I also have the 29mm version, which I haven't gotten around to building yet. It is identical to the 38mm, with the same materials, and just a smaller pattern.

Still waiting for the 54mm version...

Mark \\.

MarkII said:

The foamboard that is used for it is the toughest kind I have ever seen. It is certainly not your average craft store foamcore! Yet it is not Gatorfoam, either, because the top and bottom layers aren't wood.

I also have the 29mm version, which I haven't gotten around to building yet. It is identical to the 38mm, with the same materials, and just a smaller pattern.

Still waiting for the 54mm version...

Mark \\.

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If I'm not mistaken, Art gets it at Wallmart. I'll ask him next time I see him.

John I know who can make you decals of the picture you have. They can print and cut vinyl. Give Dave Rose at Graphix and Stuff https://www.graphixnstuff.com/ shout. Tell Dave I sent you.

I would sand it as much as posable then use white epoxy paint. let dry sand with fine sand paper repaint. Then apply new decales and spray with high gloss epoxy clear and she should last i lifetime.

Thanks for the feedback. I do appreciate it.

I started peeling up the loose decal material by hand but that quickly became a static, clingy mess. I then took out the #320 sandpaper and had a go. That worked a lot better but the paper clogged very quickly. Examining the results, I decided to try some #120 sandpaper. That was much more effective, did not seem to mar the foamboard and still took forever to complete.

Separated at birth?

Mark \\.

JAL3 said:

THe originals were put on with clear decal paper. I'm out of that and will probably print it on white paper. I'll have to cut to shape anyway.

I guess I want to find a way to 1) make sure they stick and 2) stay protected.



JAL

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I do this all the time on my rockets:
After you print on white paper, Spray/coat them with fixative, only 1-2 dollars at WallMart, this will set the ink and make it water proof. I have also used clear coat [rustoleum/krylon] in lieu of fixative if non is available.

Then spray some 3M Super 77 adhesive on the back, let it tack for 30-60 sec. and spray another light coat on. Apply to rocket, they ain't coming off, even at Mach.
If you really want to make them pop, spray a light coat of white paint on back, sometimes the clear will make the paper semi-transparent, this prevents it.

It's really quite simple,after you do it a couple times, you'll have more money for motors!

blackjack2564 said:

I do this all the time on my rockets:
After you print on white paper, Spray/coat them with fixative, only 1-2 dollars at WallMart, this will set the ink and make it water proof. I have also used clear coat [rustoleum/krylon] in lieu of fixative if non is available.

Then spray some 3M Super 77 adhesive on the back, let it tack for 30-60 sec. and spray another light coat on. Apply to rocket, they ain't coming off, even at Mach.
If you really want to make them pop, spray a light coat of white paint on back, sometimes the clear will make the paper semi-transparent, this prevents it.

It's really quite simple,after you do it a couple times, you'll have more money for motors!

Click to expand...

I want to be sure I've got what you're saying. You mean print on regular white bond paper and not decal paper. Is that correct?

Yes correct.

A bonus by using a clear coat is the added UV protection. At first I used just fixative and after prolonged exposure to the sun,some of the brighter colors began to fade.
Since using the clear, the problem is greatly reduced. But then I just lay my rockets out at the launch, so they sit out all day.

In the photo you can see a MAD DOG printed on regular paper, ready to cut out, and process. You can find tons of letter fonts and sizes right in Micrsoft Word, colors shadowing etc. Enough to satisfy every need. You can also Google clip art for more specific needs, and color them in word or paint too.

blackjack2564 said:

Yes correct.

A bonus by using a clear coat is the added UV protection. At first I used just fixative and after prolonged exposure to the sun,some of the brighter colors began to fade.
Since using the clear, the problem is greatly reduced. But then I just lay my rockets out at the launch, so they sit out all day.

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OK. Next Question.

What is fixative?

Any art supply store like Micheal's and even Walmart has it. A spray, artists use ,to keep drawings like charcoal or chalk from smearing. It 'fixes' the material to the paper, so it won't smear. And is very cheap 1-2.00 a can.

If you have any clear coat it will do the same, just a light coat first,so you don't make the ink run, followed by a heavier one to seal. As I mentioned clear coats have the advantage of UV protection.

I also put a line of masking tape on my tubes, to act as a guide, when placing the lettering. Then remove when done. There is no second chance with Super 77. Once on it's stuck!

blackjack2564 said:

Any art supply store like Micheal's and even Walmart has it. A spray, artists use ,to keep drawings like charcoal or chalk from smearing. It 'fixes' the material to the paper, so it won't smear. And is very cheap 1-2.00 a can.

If you have any clear coat it will do the same, just a light coat first,so you don't make the ink run, followed by a heavier one to seal. As I mentioned clear coats have the advantage of UV protection.

I also put a line of masking tape on my tubes, to act as a guide, when placing the lettering. Then remove when done. There is no second chance with Super 77. Once on it's stuck!

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I do appreciate it. This sounds interesting and like something to pursue. I do have appr. 5.5 cans of Krylon Clear with UV protection sitting around. I also have some Super 77 used exactly once. All I have to do is find it.

Make sure you spread out several sheets of old newspaper,under the decals, when spraying the 77. Any thing it gets on is heck to get it off! But that's a good thing, your decals WILL stay put.
Remember use light even coats, a heavy one will squish out from under the decal onto the rocket.
Good idea to try it on a plain scrap of paper first just to get a feel for it. Stick it on an old box or what ever. Gently rub over it to make the hold even.

Let us know how it works out!

blackjack2564 said:

Make sure you spread out several sheets of old newspaper,under the decals, when spraying the 77. Any thing it gets on is heck to get it off! But that's a good thing, your decals WILL stay put.
Remember use light even coats, a heavy one will squish out from under the decal onto the rocket.
Good idea to try it on a plain scrap of paper first just to get a feel for it. Stick it on an old box or what ever. Gently rub over it to make the hold even.

Let us know how it works out!

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Thanks. I think I want to give this one a try and I will continue to post build/rehab photos. This is the main reason I do so: I learn new things to try.

I want to make sure I have the 77 instructions clear.

1 spray a light coat on the back of the "decal"
2 wait for 45 secs
3 apply another light coat
4 carefully place
5 burnish as needed

Is that right?

One last thing: before applying the glue, practice how your going to align it on the rocket. I always bow the decal slightly, and try to get the center to stick first. Then work my way out from the center, smoothing it on. This help to eliminate wrinkles.

Yep you got it. Much easier than it seems. You'll be a pro in no time!

blackjack2564 said:

One last thing: before applying the glue, practice how your going to align it on the rocket. I always bow the decal slightly, and try to get the center to stick first. Then work my way out from the center, smoothing it on. This help to eliminate wrinkles.

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Thanks again. I'm probably going to print them up after I finish preparing for services in the morning and then take some time to trim them to fit the target surface.

I guess my concern at this point is the size of the decal. Working out from the center makes sense...if I get it right on the money to being with.

On large ones simple:

Lay it on dry, make a tiny pencil mark on center edge of both decal and rocket top and bottom. Now you have a visual guide. I'll post a picture in a minute.

Here ya go. had to use a box to bow, obviously I was taking the pic! Nothing to it. While your at services, have the congregation pray for help in getting them on straight! [LOL]

I did a build thread here https://www.rocketryplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2648&page=12 go to post 118 from there I did stripes and lettering decals step by step, with guides. This might help if you want to do other things yourself