Umbrella Insurance Policy

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SSenesy

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I recently tried to get an umbrella insurance policy to protect my liability from mishaps when I fly at non-sanctioned meets. They declined to issue a policy as they felt that the activity was too hazardous and presented too great an exposure risk.

I'm curious if anyone carries one of these and if so, who they got it through? I'm concerned that I won't be able to get one from another carrier unless I transfer my homeowners and auto insurance to them as well, which I don't want to do.

Your response is appreciated.
 
SSenesy said:
I recently tried to get an umbrella insurance policy to protect my liability from mishaps when I fly at non-sanctioned meets. They declined to issue a policy as they felt that the activity was too hazardous and presented too great an exposure risk.

I'm curious if anyone carries one of these and if so, who they got it through? I'm concerned that I won't be able to get one from another carrier unless I transfer my homeowners and auto insurance to them as well, which I don't want to do.

Your response is appreciated.
Click to expand...

Ill send my dad a note. He got one for $1M and it sounded like there wasntany resistance to it. Infact his insurance guy thought they were cool. Ill ask him to reply....

Ben
 
I have seen and experienced it myself time and time again. Unless you have a large net worth (Assets in excess of debts) an insurance policy only makes you a target. When an event happens weather real or imagined which prompts a lawsuit the plaintiffs go after money. If you have no money or you can put forth the illusion of no money or leviable assets there is no economic incentive for somebody to sue you. An umbrella policy can protect your home and other possessions from a suit or it can turn you into a target when you would not otherwise have been a target. Perform your own analysis of your current financial position and do not rely upon the advice of an insurance salesperson who is compensated based on the premiums he or she brings in.

When I was a paramedic I used to get a kick out of it whenever a co-worker would brag about how smart he or she is that he or she has a malpractice policy. I'd be like, "Dude, you are a paramedic, you are and always will be poor. Until you got that malpractice policy you were not a target for a lawsuit."

By the way, your mortgage is your best protection of your home from lawsuit. A mortgage is always a senior debt which MUST be satisfied before any junior debts i.e. liabilities arising from a lawsuit can be satisfied out of proceeds from the sale of the house. If your mortgage(s) exceed fair market value of your house a plaintiff cannot force the sale of your house to satisfy a lawsuit.
 
Just ask your homeowners carrier about a general liability rider. Don't ask for a specific rocketry policy.

-Kevin
 
troj said:
Just ask your homeowners carrier about a general liability rider. Don't ask for a specific rocketry policy.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

Be sure to understand the specific exclusions of any liability rider or umbrella.

Like Troj said you are not obligated to enumerate all the activities you participate in. If its not excluded then its included.
 
I have an umbrella policy because I own a business and some property. When applying for the policy the only question I saw that was even close to pertaining to rocketry was one asking if I owned any aircraft. My agent said my rockets don't count. Fortunately I've never had to make a claim so I'm not really positive my rocketry activities are covered.
 
jderimig said:
Be sure to understand the specific exclusions of any liability rider or umbrella.
Click to expand...

Good advice for any insurance policy. Knowing little details, like the fact that a lot of homeowners insurance specifically excludes damage from floods, is a good thing.

-Kevin
 
Good advice all.

I probably volunteered too much information when asked. The first thing she wanted to know was why I wanted an umbrella policy. I probably should have just said 'to protect my assets'. Sigh.

I've made a few calls based on Internet searches and it seems everyone wants you to have your auto coverage collocated. Anyone know a good insurer who will issue a standalone umbrella?
 
My mother-in-law could use a good umbrella policy as she is HYPER-paranoid that people will steal her umbrella when we go to a restaurant.

:neener:
 
1974_Trident said:
I have seen and experienced it myself time and time again. Unless you have a large net worth (Assets in excess of debts) an insurance policy only makes you a target. When an event happens weather real or imagined which prompts a lawsuit the plaintiffs go after money. If you have no money or you can put forth the illusion of no money or leviable assets there is no economic incentive for somebody to sue you. An umbrella policy can protect your home and other possessions from a suit or it can turn you into a target when you would not otherwise have been a target. Perform your own analysis of your current financial position and do not rely upon the advice of an insurance salesperson who is compensated based on the premiums he or she brings in.

When I was a paramedic I used to get a kick out of it whenever a co-worker would brag about how smart he or she is that he or she has a malpractice policy. I'd be like, "Dude, you are a paramedic, you are and always will be poor. Until you got that malpractice policy you were not a target for a lawsuit."

By the way, your mortgage is your best protection of your home from lawsuit. A mortgage is always a senior debt which MUST be satisfied before any junior debts i.e. liabilities arising from a lawsuit can be satisfied out of proceeds from the sale of the house. If your mortgage(s) exceed fair market value of your house a plaintiff cannot force the sale of your house to satisfy a lawsuit.
Click to expand...

So if I read you correctly....you say: "Unless you have a large net worth (Assets in excess of debts) an insurance policy only makes you a target."

I gather that if you:
a.) have an umbrella insurance policy that provides monetary compensation to a victim in the event your big rocket project damages, harms or kills people or property....or
b.) you have a lot of net worth

- you imply you are better off having neither, in the event of an accident?

I can see your point, given when you state the following:

"If you have no money or you can put forth the illusion of no money or leviable assets there is no economic incentive for somebody to sue you."

However, I suspect in this day and age, some lawyer would be more than happy to try and get an award that would garnish your wages on behalf of the agrieved party for the rest of your life regardless of what assets or insurance policy you hold........
 
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It looks to me that NAR members' insurance covers one as long as they are safety code compliant just like the AMA's insurance covers members who are safety code compliant. In either case the flying does not have to take place during a sanctioned meet or at a club flying site. So my read, since you list an NAR number in your signature is that as long as you comply with the NAR safety code, you're covered.
 
BEC said:
It looks to me that NAR members' insurance covers one as long as they are safety code compliant just like the AMA's insurance covers members who are safety code compliant.
Click to expand...

Get the umbrella.

Scenario. You go to an Indy launch and join an unincorporated club to participate. A very high claim accident occurs around a non-NAR compliant flight. The host club insurance carrier denies the claim. Action will then be taken jointly against the individual club members (which includes you). Individual NAR insurance doesn't cover you in that case.

Admittedly an unlikely scenario to transpire.
 
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jderimig said:
Get the umbrella.

Scenario. You go to an Indy launch and join an unincorporated club to participate. A very high claim accident occurs around a non-NAR compliant flight. The host club insurance carrier denies the claim. Action will then be taken jointly against the individual club members (which includes you). Individual NAR insurance doesn't cover you in that case.

Admittedly an unlikely scenario to transpire.
Click to expand...

....or, at a NAR or TRA launch you're at, the host club is doing their best to follow the rules, but someone sneaks something by, and breaks the rules. Someone at the launch gets hurt, whether on that launch, or another. The insurance company voids the coverage for the entire event, because the rules weren't followed.

CYA, when it comes to lawsuits. Lawyers will go after as many as they can, looking for pockets to dig into.

If you own a house, protect it. The previous argument about a house below market value doesn't work, as I don't plan to owe more than my house is worth....

-Kevin
 
SSenesy said:
I've made a few calls based on Internet searches and it seems everyone wants you to have your auto coverage collocated. Anyone know a good insurer who will issue a standalone umbrella?
Click to expand...

Is there a reason why you do not want it to be "collocated"? Is it because the insurer you already spoke with was the one who provides your auto?

I ask because I was given a discount for "collocating" that essentially paid for 100% of my renter's insurance (I think I'm paying $6/year above my auto insurance payment, which, I must admit, is probably not the greatest deal I could have gotten - but I've got a clean 33-year history with my insurer).
 
sylvie369 said:
Is there a reason why you do not want it to be "collocated"? Is it because the insurer you already spoke with was the one who provides your auto?

I ask because I was given a discount for "collocating" that essentially paid for 100% of my renter's insurance (I think I'm paying $6/year above my auto insurance payment, which, I must admit, is probably not the greatest deal I could have gotten - but I've got a clean 33-year history with my insurer).
Click to expand...

Right now my auto and homeowner's insurance are at the location that turned me down for the umbrella policy. I've called a few of the major insurers and they want at least my auto policy to be with them in order for them to issue an umbrella. I'd rather not move my current auto and homeowner's policies as I'm happy with the service that has been provided so far.
 

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