Documenting The Estes OMEGA (K-52/K-52P/1200) Variants

I just uploaded a new set of scans I took from the Omega (1200) I won in LW Bercini's auction.

All images are links to the originals on Flickr... Please, Check 'em out!

My research turned up that the Omega was sold as the K-52P until 1974. In 1975 it appeared as the 1200, and remained that way until its last year of production in 1980.
As such, it appears that this is one of the later Omega's that were produced sometime between 1975 and 1980. I don't know if post 1975 Omega's included the Countdown checklist that shows the Cineroc or not. One additional clue to the age of the rocket is the orange and black "Sunburst" parachutes. Older versions used checkerboard patterned parachutes. Another thing to note is the facecard still says Astron OMEGA, and K-52P.

Except for the face card, I cropped my scans to leave an overlap of the background. I realize that this may make some images a little to large to print, but with some minor photo-editing, you should be able to create perfect copies of the originals if you desired (perhaps even be able to bleach out the yellowing and show-through too). I'd liked to have included a ruler, but silly me, I forgot mine at home.

Face Card, front and back (16 13/16" x 5" cardstock):


Misc papers and parts, front and back (BT-60 Based rocket):


The parachute is one of the 18" Orange Sunbursts (and not Red as it might appear on the monitor), the marking guide is white on the backside, centering rings (RA-5060) are white on one side, natural cardboard on the other, and the Tri-fold Parachute mount is blank on the back side. The upside-down paper was rotated so that the same side that was right-side-up in the first (left) image was right-side-up in the second image. Cropped detail shots of the papers (5" x 4 1/4" each) are on the flickr photostream. Rubber Shock Cord (not in the photograph) measured at 22 1/2" x 1/4".

Fin patterns (12" x 4" x 1/8" each):


Decals, front and back (12 1/4" x 5 9/16"):


According to the color meter at my local Home Depot, the custom color match shade of blue is (Read the underlined section as columns (not rows), and the underlines were needed for spacing):

BEHR ULTRA
BASE: 3753
PP ULTRA INT SEMI-GL/SEMI GLOSS
{CM} CUSTOM COLOR MATCH
CLRNT_|DL____|EL_____|FL_____|KXL____
__0Z___|_0____|_8_____|_0_____|_5_____
384th__|_236___|_116___|_12____|_28_____

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I remember that the guy who broke it down for me said that this was per gallon, and was composed of green, blue, a red/brown color, and white. However, I don't know exactly it works. I'm wondering if it's possible to get a can of this shade in a can of spraypaint from an automotive paint supplier (although I've heard it's close to $35/can). That option of course is based on the idea that I may try to imitate Nathan, and spend a summer putting a shine on it that could be used for signaling the ISS.

Parts list, and Countdown Checklist (opposite sides of same 8.5" x 11" page):


Instructions, front and back (opposite sides of same 11" x 17" page):


There are more photos in the flickr photostream, however, I took them with a cell phone, and they're... lets just say... underwhelming. No biggie, I'll pull out the Olympus, and try again.

Pointy Side Up!
Jim

K'Tesh said:

I just uploaded a new set of scans I took from the Omega K-52P I won in LW Bercini's auction... From my research, it appears that this is one of the later Omega's that were produced sometime between 1973(ish) and 1980. I don't know if post 1975 Omega's included the Countdown checklist that shows the Cineroc or not. I have no idea why the Parts list shows this as Kit #1200, as to my knowledge, it always sold as some variation of K-52P...

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Cool scans!

It appears that the K No. 1200 designation may have been for an Omega version that was specifically sold with a payload section, as opposed to the K-52 Omega that was sold to accompany (or at least to be used with) the Cineroc film camera. So the K-52 instructions that I have seem to differ from the ones you have scanned primarily in that:
1. the K-52 "Parts List" graphic is actually a photo of the kit parts
2. parts specific to the payload section such as the "Payload Body Tube", "Payload Nose Block" and "Nose Cone" are not listed in the K-52 instructions
3. the photograph of the assembled Omega to the right of the Parts List on the K-52 instructions shows the Omega with a Cineroc as the payload (and interestingly shows the Cineroc with only the lower tape strip being yellow, just like in the Omega/Cineroc unit pictured in the "Omega Countdown Checklist")
5. final K-52 instruction points 20 and 21 detail the recovery system attachment and deployment options that are specifically for use with the Cineroc camera unit
6. my particular K-52 instructions identify Estes as "A Subsidiary Of Damon", if that helps with providing an approximate date

It would really help if you'd put a ruler or measuring tape in the scanner with the decals and balsa patterns when you scan them... or just transfer the actual measurements of an inch to the edge of the paper or decal sheet, or to another strip of paper that you overlap the edge of the scan or put just below it on the scanner bed...

It really helps when scaling things or printing them out...

Later! OL JR

luke strawwalker said:

It would really help if you'd put a ruler or measuring tape in the scanner with the decals and balsa patterns when you scan them... or just transfer the actual measurements of an inch to the edge of the paper or decal sheet, or to another strip of paper that you overlap the edge of the scan or put just below it on the scanner bed...

It really helps when scaling things or printing them out...

Later! OL JR

Click to expand...

I'm planning on editing some of them to include the dimensions, but I'm more inclined to just include the dimensions on the flickr comments, or titles of the individual pieces. Some of the scaling can be done by simply knowing that the rocket is a BT-60 based kit.

Oh, there's something I didn't notice before... On the 8.5" x 11" instruction page in the OP, the Omega w/o Cineroc payload has a (presumably) silver nosecone. In checking the 1970 Estes Catalog (both my archived copy and Ninfinger), you really can't tell what color it is thanks to the nature of B&W photography.

Addendum...

The Omega that I got has engine clips that are the same size as the Semroc Engine Hook (Standard) (EH-28)



These engine clips are thinner in width than the Estes clips found in kits produced in the 1980's (before the longer finger tab was introduced).

For some reason, my kit included three of them (slightly discolored). Then again, it was opened (due to age cracking the bag open), and it may have accidentally acquired one from another kit.

I've cut new tubes for my clone, except for the BT-52 tube (which is otw from Semroc). However, I am still looking for another set of period accurate(ish) (diecut) centering rings (still in the rectangular "flash). I'll post more about the tubes later when I get that BT-52 chopped down.

The one external difference I'm planning on incorporating into the clone is 3/16" Launch Lugs. Like the Semroc Omega, I'm planning on making this capable of using "E" engines.

[EDIT] Here's the link to the Cineroc thread, and the link to the Cineroc's Instruction thread. [/EDIT]

Ok, Now I've got scans (600 dpi) of the K-52 version (not the K-52P)

Page 1 and 2 (front and back) printed on 8.5" x 11" paper


And the actual assembly instructions (front and back) printed on a single 11" x 17" sheet of paper




Thanks to Eric Higgins and his excellent K Kit Registry, eBay, as well as Gerry Fortin and his Model Rocket Kit Collecting Guide I've located images of 4 variants of the OMEGA (K-52) still in the bag. The first two images are Eric's images, and used with permission. The (blurry) 3rd version was taken from an Ebay Auction and IIRC the source of the instructions above. Apparently, the first three of these versions were produced before 1972 (and the price was originally $3.50), when the D13 motor was recalled and replaced with the D12 motors. Gerry Fortin's image is the 4th version, and was released sometime after the D13 motor was discontinued. One thing to note is that the face card/hang tag no longer has a pre-printed price on it.

Here's the back of Gerry's kit... You can see that it uses tape strips rather than disks for the parachute, and the parachute is clearly the sunburst pattern.



I have my anonymous friend to thank for these, as well as my Omega, and Cineroc!

Thanks!
Jim

I'm pretty sure that the Omega I bought around 1975 was the kit that included the payload section and nose cone even though it was bought together with the Cineroc. By that time, I don't think they were producing the version of the kit specifically for use with the Cineroc.

BTW, I put it on lay-away and saved for about six weeks to finish paying for it. After all, it was $25. Whew!

-- Roger

Ok, I've now seen confirmation on Gerry Fortin's website that the Omega was released with a balsa nosecone, but the photo didn't include a scan of the instructions. A scan of the balsa noseconed version is found on the next post.


(Photos from Gerry's website)

Oh, and if you're looking for scans of the instructions that have the plastic nosecone. I archived them here.

Thanks!
Jim

I finally managed to score a set of instructions off of Ebay. Thanks to Doug Bertelsen for scanning them for me.

Really cool to be able to archive vintage rocketry. The stuff is out there, just need to get them out of the attics and into scanners.

After looking this up, I noticed that 1970 was the year that the Cineroc/Omega was introduced along with the first D engines to lift it.

Question is now, when will Estes come out with "Cineroc II", a digital version externally identical to the original? Please?

Cabernut said:

Really cool to be able to archive vintage rocketry. The stuff is out there, just need to get them out of the attics and into scanners.

After looking this up, I noticed that 1970 was the year that the Cineroc/Omega was introduced along with the first D engines to lift it.

Question is now, when will Estes come out with "Cineroc II", a digital version externally identical to the original? Please?

Click to expand...

While I wouldn't rule out an OMEGA clone from Estes, my contacts in Estes highly doubt that they will ever dabble with installing a movie camera (digital or otherwise) in the foreseeable future. Estes really got burned with the fiascos called the Oracle, and AstroVision. I think the problem is that Estes is no longer a freestanding company, it's a subsidiary of a larger company, and rockets isn't the larger companies primary business. Translation: Estes is being run by bean counters that are constantly chipping away at the company.

Modern kids don't build things nowadays. When my father was a kid, he and his dad carved models from wood. My dad made a drift boat with his friend (who later turned out to be my uncle) as teenagers. Me, I built plastic models, and rockets, but never carved anything. Kids now buy everything, and have mostly forgotten the skills that my grandfather and father took for granted. Should a massive Coronal Mass Ejection ever fry all the world's electronics, I think that everyone under the age of 35 is pretty well screwed if they had no access to the internet. Don't get me wrong, we'd all be in hurting status, but the older people used to do things outside, and aren't afraid of a little dirt, they'd have to teach the young-uns how to do things. Let's hope that the Boomers won't all be gone if/when that happens, they've got even more skills than GenX even if they are a tad rusty.

Really though, my conversations with Estes leads me to believe that if we want a digital camera in any form, we'll need to do it ourselves.

K'Tesh said:

...the fiascos called the Oracle, and AstroVision.... if we want a digital camera in any form, we'll need to do it ourselves.

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I haven't heard of them until now.

Right you are.

K'Tesh said:

I think the problem is that Estes is no longer a freestanding company, it's a subsidiary of a larger company, and rockets isn't the larger companies primary business. Translation: Estes is being run by bean counters that are constantly chipping away at the company.

Modern kids don't build things nowadays. When my father was a kid, he and his dad carved models from wood. My dad made a drift boat with his friend (who later turned out to be my uncle) as teenagers. Me, I built plastic models, and rockets, but never carved anything. Kids now buy everything, and have mostly forgotten the skills that my grandfather and father took for granted. Should a massive Coronal Mass Ejection ever fry all the world's electronics, I think that everyone under the age of 35 is pretty well screwed if they had no access to the internet. Don't get me wrong, we'd all be in hurting status, but the older people used to do things outside, and aren't afraid of a little dirt, they'd have to teach the young-uns how to do things. Let's hope that the Boomers won't all be gone if/when that happens, they've got even more skills than GenX even if they are a tad rusty.

Click to expand...

+1... gazillion... 'nuff said

fm

K'Tesh said:

Estes really got burned with the fiascos called the Oracle, and AstroVision.

Click to expand...

I don't recall anyone at Estes referring to the Oracle or AstroVision as 'fiascos'.

Now, they were a bit behind the technology curve when they were released. If they had come out 2-3 years earlier they might be remembered more fondly.

I have four Oracles and one AstroVision. They worked pretty well. I even built an Omega clone for one of my Oracles.

K'Tesh said:

Modern kids don't build things nowadays.

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That's just categorical claim.

More accurately: "Most modern kids don't build things nowadays"
I build comments with a keyboard and my own two hands.

Well, rockets too...
I can't say I carved wood models or drift boats, but I did carve floral foam into sculptures and made a... thrift boat? It was a bunch of the pool kickboards that I made into a raft...

I excel at making stupid things stupider.
For instance, I made a sport drink bottle about 2 inches shorter then friction fitted the to and bottom pieces together...
And that's what I can find within a 1 meter circle around me, other than the Estes mercury redstone... I must have thought that I needed something else to get frustrated with...

-Tony


P.S. This entire comment was so I could subscribe to the thread...

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

-- attr. to Socrates by Plato

Initiator001 said:

I don't recall anyone at Estes referring to the Oracle or AstroVision as 'fiascos'.

Now, they were a bit behind the technology curve when they were released. If they had come out 2-3 years earlier they might be remembered more fondly.

I have four Oracles and one AstroVision. They worked pretty well. I even built an Omega clone for one of my Oracles.

View attachment 304658

Click to expand...

The Oracle got me interested in on board video. I now fly HD cameras the size of matchbox cars on most of my rockets. I still have the Oracle videos on my computer. They bring back great memories.

dhbarr said:

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

-- attr. to Socrates by Plato

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So... you're saying that age determines competence?

Many adults also love luxury, have bad manners, contempt for athourity, show disrespect to younger, and love chatter in place of exercise. They contradict the truth for their opinions, chatter before company, gabble up daintiest at the table, cross their legs (what the heck is that about), and tyrannize their children (I believe that's called abuse)

Firstly, the world has changed, overall and for children, and most of this quote is no longer relevant.
Second, your use of this quote shows a lot about you.
Third, this was before John Locke. Read Some Thoughts on Education.


-Tony

Incongruent said:

So... you're saying that age determines competence?

Many adults also love luxury, have bad manners, contempt for athourity, show disrespect to younger, and love chatter in place of exercise. They contradict the truth for their opinions, chatter before company, gabble up daintiest at the table, cross their legs (what the heck is that about), and tyrannize their children (I believe that's called abuse)

Firstly, the world has changed, overall and for children, and most of this quote is no longer relevant.
Second, your use of this quote shows a lot about you.
Third, this was before John Locke. Read Some Thoughts on Education.


-Tony

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Fourth, people have been saying "kids these days" for as long as old people have been grumpy and young people have been naive.

dhbarr said:

Fourth, people have been saying "kids these days" for as long as old people have been grumpy and young people have been naive.

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True. Also as long as people have been realizing their parents were right after all. Only technology changes. People don't.

By the way... is it just me or has this thread been moved to Yard Sale / Wanted? K'Tesh, are you auctioning off your designs now?

Cabernut said:

True. Also as long as people have been realizing their parents were right after all. Only technology changes. People don't.

By the way... is it just me or has this thread been moved to Yard Sale / Wanted? K'Tesh, are you auctioning off your designs now?

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I asked someone to move the Omega plans out of the Yard Sale/Wanted section and join it with the other OMEGA K-52/K-52P/1200 Scans thread. They fused it with the OR files thread instead. I ask them to fix that. Instead, they moved the ENTIRE OR thread to the Yard Sale/Wanted section instead.

[EDIT] Now the thread has been restored to plans! Thanks CW!

Cabernut said:

True. Also as long as people have been realizing their parents were right after all. Only technology changes. People don't.

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I'm gonna disagree,
please read through and don't kill me.

1) It depends on what the subject matter is. For instance, if your parents said you needed a job and you said you could subsidies off your stash of balsa and paint thinner, you're wrong. But if your parents said "just use hot glue"...

We all have our thoughts and; some might be right and others might be wrong.
I like to think. It's a huge waste of time and I don't really share my thoughts and itt gets in the way of rocket building, but here is one of my biggest time wasters:
What is it like for others?
You will never know; you are the only one guaranteed to feel as you feel, see as you see, and think as you think. You can never tell what others are thinking, or that they even exists for that matter. My emotions may feel the same as yours, but there's also a good chance they're completely different. You can infer and try and imagine, which you should do, what others feel, but you can never know. And you're problably going to disagree with this and rant, and I'll try and understand why. And you can describe it to me, but how can you know that we refer to the same things by the same words?
And now I have to stop, else I'll get stuck in thought again.

2) "People don't" (Are you referring to humans as a whole or individuals?)
Yes, technology changes, but people and many other things do too.
As a species.
Evolution. And adapting.
Individuals.
People can change, and do change. Sometimes. It's hard to change, at least from my window of the world, my observations of it. And I mean mentally, not... No, why would you think that? And if you mean the defining characteristics of people, like how certain people are trigger happy or callous, those can change too, just not easily.
I've been told that "most 8th graders wouldn't be able to understand this" (referring to a philosophical thing referring to John Locke's Two Treatises of Government- I'll elaborate if inquired) when I was discussing it. And that makes me wonder: where am I different? And I've never been able to conclude this, (see the question in #1) for I've not done any formal research into other people's lives to draw a comparison and from what I do have, I'm not much different, other than my obsession with rockets. And I tend to ask more questions, but since most of them I ask and answer in my head, how can I know others don't?
Once again I feel the nearing-irresistible pull off endless thought. Gotta end that written out thought chain.

Wow, that was long winded. Bye!

-Tony

wow, selling now are we... glad i found ya

fm

Tony, you disagree and that's cool. I understand what you're saying. My post was referring to the forest, not the trees. Let's move on and save room for K'Tesh's awesome .ork files.

Cabernut said:

Tony, you disagree and that's cool. I understand what you're saying. My post was referring to the forest, not the trees. Let's move on and save room for K'Tesh's awesome .ork files.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the plug Chris!

Tony,

Please forgive the lateness of this reply. I have been working a lot more lately than I had been in the recent past, and I was hoping to keep this out of my OpenRocket thread. But until this mess gets sorted out (this line of thought was part of another threat but got glommed into this one, then the whole thing was moved into the wrong subforum), it's been growing and growing.

Chris is right about the forest, not the trees.

In every generation there are some outstanding individuals. I was making a generalization, and not trying to call anyone out. Estes/Cox is the largest manufacturer of LPR in the world, and after the end of the excitement in rocketry caused by the race to the moon, sales have slid. Shelf space for rockets has shrunk in local hobby shops, and local hobby shops have closed up shop for good, and those that remain are threatened by changes in society outside their control (such as whether or not they should be forced to pay for drugs that fall outside their religious beliefs).

Of course Estes and the other manufacturers want to recapture what they had during their peak, and that depends on kids wanting to buy rockets and being able to launch them. However, the average kid has been conditioned by television and computers to want to buy their new toy fully assembled and ready to go, rather than make it. The people who were the kids during the peak of Estes can't possibly carry the hobby back. The youngest of us are now old enough to be Grandparents, and of the remaining group, most of them are Boomers, and too many have been lost to the hobby through the years. Life happens. The fields that we launched at in the past are now rows of houses, and landowners who supported us have been bought out by developers, or retired and left the land to their kids (who are now more afraid of lawsuits than excited about smoke trails in the sky).

Estes and the others have to adapt to what the market will bear, or they too will fade into history. To that, they are making many Ready to Fly (RTF) and almost ready to fly rockets, these are not exciting to BARs. We remember the pride that we had when we were able to make something with our own hands. RTF doesn't give you that feeling. I'm sure that this is something you will understand too. People like you, Matt (blackbrant), and Brian (Odo) (among others) are the exceptions. I for one welcome you, and want to encourage you to continue learning, and feeling the pride of building your own projects.

Pointy Side Up!
Jim

Initiator001 said:

I don't recall anyone at Estes referring to the Oracle or AstroVision as 'fiascos'.

Now, they were a bit behind the technology curve when they were released. If they had come out 2-3 years earlier they might be remembered more fondly.

I have four Oracles and one AstroVision. They worked pretty well. I even built an Omega clone for one of my Oracles.

View attachment 304658

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Hi Bob,

I used the term "fiasco" as a way to mean an unexpected disappointment, not in quality or pride of workmanship, but in expected sales, and reception. Ford had the Edsel, Estes has their first two forays in digital video. Had one of them been a true success, one or the other would likely still be in production. However, the reviews I've read focused on their high cost, shortcomings, and generally expressed a disappointment in the product. Since then, for years now the 808 camera, and others have been taped onto rockets (and other flying hobby aircraft), and videos are sprouting up on Youtube daily. Yet in my conversations with people inside Estes, the feeling I get is that while the idea for Estes to produce another camera would be a welcome addition to the lineup, the parent company isn't receptive to the idea (perhaps feeling it's a bit to "niche market").

Again, this is my perception, and not an official line from them.

I should also add that I'm on the hunt for both an AstroVision and Oracle myself, and found your Cineroc tribute inspiring. I LOVE what you did there! I also seem to remember that someone out there gave an Oracle or AstroVision a Cineroc inspired livery change.

dshmel said:

The Oracle got me interested in on board video. I now fly HD cameras the size of matchbox cars on most of my rockets. I still have the Oracle videos on my computer. They bring back great memories.

Click to expand...

Dwayne,

You have videos on your computer? Would you mind posting them on YouTube or something similar if you haven't already? Otherwise, could you point me in the right direction to view them?

Thanks!
Jim

dshmel said:

The Oracle got me interested in on board video. I now fly HD cameras the size of matchbox cars on most of my rockets.

Click to expand...

What cameras are you using? What do you recommend?

K'Tesh said:

Thanks for the plug Chris!

Tony,

Please forgive the lateness of this reply. I have been working a lot more lately than I had been in the recent past, and I was hoping to keep this out of my OpenRocket thread. But until this mess gets sorted out (this line of thought was part of another threat but got glommed into this one, then the whole thing was moved into the wrong subforum), it's been growing and growing.

Chris is right about the forest, not the trees.

In every generation there are some outstanding individuals. I was making a generalization, and not trying to call anyone out. Estes/Cox is the largest manufacturer of LPR in the world, and after the end of the excitement in rocketry caused by the race to the moon, sales have slid. Shelf space for rockets has shrunk in local hobby shops, and local hobby shops have closed up shop for good, and those that remain are threatened by changes in society outside their control (such as whether or not they should be forced to pay for drugs that fall outside their religious beliefs).

Of course Estes and the other manufacturers want to recapture what they had during their peak, and that depends on kids wanting to buy rockets and being able to launch them. However, the average kid has been conditioned by television and computers to want to buy their new toy fully assembled and ready to go, rather than make it. The people who were the kids during the peak of Estes can't possibly carry the hobby back. The youngest of us are now old enough to be Grandparents, and of the remaining group, most of them are Boomers, and too many have been lost to the hobby through the years. Life happens. The fields that we launched at in the past are now rows of houses, and landowners who supported us have been bought out by developers, or retired and left the land to their kids (who are now more afraid of lawsuits than excited about smoke trails in the sky).

Estes and the others have to adapt to what the market will bear, or they too will fade into history. To that, they are making many Ready to Fly (RTF) and almost ready to fly rockets, these are not exciting to BARs. We remember the pride that we had when we were able to make something with our own hands. RTF doesn't give you that feeling. I'm sure that this is something you will understand too. People like you, Matt (blackbrant), and Brian (Odo) (among others) are the exceptions. I for one welcome you, and want to encourage you to continue learning, and feeling the pride of building your own projects.

Pointy Side Up!
Jim

Click to expand...

To clarify, I wasn't saying that I was an outstanding individual, at the time I assumed (never a good thing) that others were similar to me. Obviously I was wrong, as I saw in increasingly after I posted and paid more attention to these things.

I've always known that I enjoyed playing with wood glue (making things) more than the other kids, but in my lack of insight into their lives, I gave them benefit of the doubt.

Thank you for categorizing me with Matt and Brian, though I think I seem to know more (judging by my posts) than I actually do. Once again the question lurks: Do other people feel the same?

Many kids do like learning and building/ crafting, but I agree, the majority would prefer less involved use of their time.
e.g. TV and YouTube. (I haven't watched (only watch and not do anything else) TV for years! In fact, the last time I watched it was at a friend's house, which I think was 5 years ago though possibly more. I did see it when the Olympics were proadcasting and my parents wanted to watch it though. I prefer to play Crash Course in the background while I build rockets, much better use of my time, or so it feels. I say that and still spend a significant portion of my day typing out responses in TRF..)

Agree on Rocket manufacturers (Cash! Why wouldn't they?), getting land. Although about the RTF comment, most customers only fly a rocket a few times, so selling a cheap disposable kit to streamline the process from purchase to burn up the one or two packs of motors is profitable. They (maybe) want to get the customers to burn up the motors as soon as possible so they can't be returned. That means no other materials should be bought, unless it's available locally from Estes (launch pad) and thus minimal assembly.

I would like like to add that most (teenager) boys tend to enjoy chasing after girls more than rockets. I don't know about girls, I never asked or paid much attention to it, but I would say based on my observations, saves money for merch instead of motors.

Perhaps I'm in an above average area, but a majority if the people here participate in extracurricular activities, where as I only do rocketry (hanging out in the art room doesn't count), and where as other people obsess over famous peoples and try to find out everything about them, the only thing I stalk is the model rocket section at my LHS. I, too spend too much time doing things like typing out unreasonably long answeres in TRF threads, which could be better purposed in learning or building. And I also start a build and stop somewhere in the middle on over 90% of my builds (1 finished rocket, over 10 unfinished... 5 can be flown (just need paint/ wood filler) though.) Just Saying.


I'm not a particularly good child either. First post in my Incongruent Thread has documentation.
Judging from my user name I assume you have realized that I'm... different. Ha.
-Tony

Ok, I've got more on why it's unlikely that Estes will come out with a new digital camera. It's about profit margins.

The Camroc, Cineroc, and Astrocam cameras were all done in house. From the design, to the assembly of them. The film was easily made from existing film stock (Camroc), or was available off the shelf (Cineroc, Astrocam). The Oracle and Astrovision weren't. The cameras were manufactured by another vendor. Estes then purchased the cameras, and incorporated them into the rockets. After that, they had to mark the price up to make a profit (as all companies do), wholesalers had their markups, and retailers have theirs.

However, with something like the 808 camera, anybody can go online right now and buy two (?clones?) for less than $9 on ebay (not from the trusted dealer).

So, if anyone can buy a camera for $4.50, and a new Estes camera comes out for $30.00 (just for argument, it could be much much higher) using the same camera (or something similar), the Estes' one is not going to sell very well.