Estes S.S. Cassiopeia: Satisfying unrequited love

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Marc_G

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Hi folks,

After doing some easy builds (a family of Icarus scales, currently in filler primer stage), I decided to plan my next significant build.

This one takes me back to age ~15. It was 1982. Things were changing around me. Previously unfelt passions were stirring. Childhood flighty infatuations were fading away, to be replaced by serious love. I remember her like it was yesterday.

How I longed for her graceful curves. I wanted to touch her. I would lay there in my room with the magazine, fantasizing about her picture and what I'd do with her, saying her name over and over as if that would make my dreams of having her come true... Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia...

To be specific, Estes 1369 S.S. Cassiopeia:

Cassiopeia.jpg

I never obtained her. But the power of a childhood love can carry into adulthood. Now, I will have her for my very own.

I've got the plans from JimZ and am figuring out what bits and pieces I need. SEMROC has most everything. But I'm trying to use up parts from my existing stash to the extent possible.

To be continued over time...
 
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Gordy,

I'll be placing an order via email in the next few days for the decal set of course, along with a bunch of Icarus-family related decals...

I went to your website for Cassy's decals. It says you have 997 in stock. :y: Planning for a rush, based on this thread? :wink:

Marc

Edit: Nice job building the Cassiopeia!
 
Gordy,

I'll be placing an order via email in the next few days for the decal set of course, along with a bunch of Icarus-family related decals...

I went to your website for Cassy's decals. It says you have 997 in stock. :y: Planning for a rush, based on this thread? :wink:

Marc

Edit: Nice job building the Cassiopeia!

When I post something on my web site it asks for an initial quantity. If I just type in 999 I figure it will be a while before I have to deal with it again.
 
Hi folks,

After doing some easy builds (a family of Icarus scales, currently in filler primer stage), I decided to plan my next significant build.

This one takes me back to age ~15. It was 1982. Things were changing around me. Previously unfelt passions were stirring. Childhood flighty infatuations were fading away, to be replaced by serious love. I remember her like it was yesterday.

How I longed for her graceful curves. I wanted to touch her. I would lay there in my room with the magazine, fantasizing about her picture and what I'd do with her, saying her name over and over as if that would make my dreams of having her come true... Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia...

...

WOW....Man...Get a room! :drool:
 
I'd like to!

Just me and a bunch of rocket parts, nothing else (other than maybe a TV!).

When I was a kid in that phase, the reason I was in the bathroom with the door locked was to give me some good time to read the Estes catalog!
 
We are talking about a rocket and not some actress from Battlestar?? --right?? Hellooww--over here---focus!
 
I've got pretty much everything I need for the build here at home, except for a few of the more exotic parts.

PNC-50 Y (R) nose cone: Check
BT 20 and BT50 body tubes: Check
Bunch of adaptor rings: Check
Engine hook: Check
Wood dowels 1/8": Check I think, I just bought some bamboo skewers that should serve...
Fins: I'll cut 'em. I know SEMROC has them for cheap, but cutting them will add some challenge for me. Got the pattern, but anybody know what thickness?
Disc set: buying it from SEMROC
BT101 ring fin: buying from SEMROC
Decals: Buying from Excelsior

CRUD. I'm out of small launch lugs. I'll add that to the SEMROC order.
 
The fin stock is 3/32".

You forgot paint!

I used Testor's metallic blue.
 
The fin stock is 3/32".

You forgot paint!

I used Testor's metallic blue.

Thanks!

Testor's metallic blue is nice. I'm probably going to go with airbrushing with pearl blue from the Wicked Colors line, then possibly overcoat with some hot rod sparkle. Or overcoat with Duplicolor metallic clear lacquer.

3/32". Got it!
 
Testor's metallic blue is nice. I'm probably going to go with airbrushing with pearl blue from the Wicked Colors line, then possibly overcoat with some hot rod sparkle. Or overcoat with Duplicolor metallic clear lacquer.
Know Testors. Know Dupli-Color. Wicked Colors is new to me, will have to Google them. Be right back.

Am back.
Interesting: they're the guys who make the Createx, that one I know about.
Wicked Colors is an ultra-high performance, multi-surface airbrush paint suitable for any substrate from fabric to automotive applications. Wicked Colors are perfect for t-shirts, automotive graphics, illustration and most any application. Wicked contains mild amounts of solvent inter-mixed with a durable, exterior-grade resign and automotive pigments for an extremely durable paint that withstands direct, prolonged exposure to outdoors elements without washing or fading.
https://www.createxcolors.com/products/wickedcolors/index.html

Sounds good for rocket use, sounds very good for rocket use:
"...inter-mixed with a durable, exterior-grade resign and automotive pigments for an extremely durable paint that withstands direct, prolonged exposure to outdoors elements without washing or fading." Don't know of someone washing their rockets: would be nice if they were wrinkle free perma press though.
 
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Know Testors. Know Dupli-Color. Wicked Colors is new to me, will have to Google them. Be right back.

Am back.
Interesting: they're the guys who make the Createx, that one I know about.
https://www.createxcolors.com/products/wickedcolors/index.html

Sounds good for rocket use, sounds very good for rocket use:
"...inter-mixed with a durable, exterior-grade resign and automotive pigments for an extremely durable paint that withstands direct, prolonged exposure to outdoors elements without washing or fading." Don't know of someone washing their rockets: would be nice if they were wrinkle free perma press though.

Yeah, I've gotten away from rattlecan pigment coats for most of my rockets, with certain exceptions to suit my whims. I still like Rusto Auto Filler primer (lacquer based), because it works better than any airbrushed aqueous primer coat I've found, and I can use it year-round because cold doesn't screw it up. I've sprayed it in 25 F weather no worries. Just takes longer before you can sand it. Similarly for gloss coat I like Valspar gloss lacquer, which also can be sprayed in the cold (or the heat, as long as humidity is low).

I got out of the enamel paint phase about two years ago, after much frustration. I do like how lacquers in general perform, particularly how they flow over edges and such (surface tension on acrylic airbrush paints is not ideal in my experience), but the ease of indoor shooting of airbrush paints, the ability to mix colors, the lack of my wife complaining about fumes from the garage... all these things pushed me to airbrushing most of my rockets these days.

I like Wicked Colors the best, as well as Auto-Air and a few Auto-Borne (? I might have this one wrong ?), all part of the Createx family. I've put a few threads in Techniques about airbrushing, and learned from dozens of other threads in there...
 
Yesterday being a weekend, actually the first weekend since late February that I was actually at home the whole weekend, I set to task with the fins.

I had some concerns about the scale of the fins in the instructions from JimZ's site... see this thread where I discuss it... but in the end I just printed them out at 103% scale and I am sure it will be fine.

The main fins are two-piece fins that need to be glued together. I used standard Elmers Carpenter's wood glue. When doing this kind of thing, I use this roll of heavy plastic magnet material as a backer:

Cassiopeia 001.jpg

The material is the stuff refrigerator magnets are made out of. I acquired a scrap from my wife who was doing a project requiring the material. Anyway, it lays nice and flat, when I put it on that glass shelf you see underneath. But then when the glue is dry it peels off just fine. Wax paper or any other non-sticky-to-wood-glue material would do fine, but I've had cases where wax paper doesn't lay flat enough on it's own, requiring light parts to be weighted down. I like the convenience of the material I'm using.

Anyway, I made the fins. Cut the dowel sections... the skewers didn't work out (too short, wrong diameter) so I got some dowels at Micheals. They are not exactly round, but good enough. Cut the body tube sections. Here is a spread of the parts I've got on hand:

Cassiopeia 002.jpg

As mentioned before, ring fin and a few other things coming in from orders.

I dry fit the rings and tubes just to get a feel for it:

Cassiopeia 003.jpg

I will measure carefully tonight if I get a chance and start gluing things. I've got to be careful with order of operations... I will be using a fin jig to get the fins on straight, and based on the way it works, the motor hook would get in the way, so I need to glue the fins before putting in the motor hook.

I'm also considering the attachment details for the dowels at the front of each of them. The blunt end thing doesn't really work for me:

Cassiopeia 004.jpg

I'm considering sanding down the undersurface of the dowel where it attaches to make a nicer join, or using some putty to clean it up.

Meanwhile, I need to order some decals from Sandman.

Marc
 
That body tube looks alot like the Black Star Voyager.

You're right! I didn't notice that, but there definitely are elements that look like that.

Meanwhile, my progress for the day so far has been to go to work to pay for the hobby :wink:

Actually, I did manage to send Sandman an email requesting the decals. If I was ordering just the stock decals I would have used his website but since I ordered a bunch of custom stuff, I sent him an email instead. I'm getting SS Cassiopeia, and a downscale version of same, and three scales in the Icarus family. I've actually build all the Icaruses (Icari?) and they are sitting in my garage with filler primer outgassing. Dry by now, really.

I'm thinking of doing an about face on the painting of Cassy. Though I'm mostly an airbrush guy now, I still have a bunch of cans of lacquers sitting around I'm trying to use. I may use some blue metallic lacquer that I have on hand, in hopes of using it up.

Tonight I may get the fins on the BT50 lower segment.

Marc
 
Great looking build. Always loved the look of the Cassiopeia so I did a 2x upscale myself. Usually flies on an CTI H125.

...Fudd

Cassiopeia1.jpg
 
Fudd- I love your upscale. Until I hook up with a club I'm sticking with D engines or an E on a very still day, to stay in my park. A big upscale will have to wait...

LWB- I agree, that sort of body treatment seems to go in runs. Must have been a designer who favored the look, or imitation / flattery!

Meanwhile last night I didn't have a chance to work on it. This morning before work I glued the dowels to the small dowel holder fins.

After some consideration I have decided to paper the main fins. The balsa is super soft and pretty grainy. I will use the technique listed in one of my threads in Techniques that I think I got from CaveDuck. Printer paper lightly tacked with spray adhesive then saturate with thin CA. Body tube and ringfin bonding surfaces will be pre-applied with wood glue so it can soak in.

Will try to get time to do this tonight. Will take and post pics when I can.
 
Last night I worked on the fins.

Keep in mind the edges that will be bonding to the body tube and ring fin are already coated in wood glue, so there will be no problem making double-glue joints with them, after a light sanding to remove any CA from them after the following process:

As I described above, I used what I think of as the CaveDuck methodology. Computer paper (20 lb bond inkjet paper) was ever so very lightly sprayed with formula 77 spray adhesive. Let dry for an hour (due to dinner, not the need for it to actually dry more than 5 minutes).

Then I carefully laid the fins one by one on an edge of the slightly tacky paper such that the root edge and about a millimeter or two above were exposed. Then I trimmed around the edge of the fin. Flipped the fin over, repeated process. Note: For Cassiopeia, I'm purposefully leaving the fins squared off as part of the look I want to achieve. If I were using rounded or airfoiled fins, I would use the taco method to enclose the leading edge.

Here's a pic of two of the fins papered and one not:

Cassiopeia 005.jpg

It shows about how much I left unpapered for better bonding during gluing to the body tube & filleting. I didn't leave any extra un papered area where it will bond to the ring fin; that root surface alone will be plenty. Not planning major structural fillets there.

With a fan gently swirling to my back, to prevent fumes getting to me, I used CA to saturate through the paper, and a q-tip to swab the CA around and get full coverage as it soaks in. Here are the fins after the first side, and they are sitting on little folded bits of slick backing from trim monokote, which CA doesn't seem to stick to.

Cassiopeia 006.jpg

I like the slightly tacky adhesive-sprayed paper better than label paper, because the label adhesive is a bit thick and slows down the soaking through of CA into the wood. However, I HAVE done fins like that and it works fine. I just prefer the way the tacky paper works a bit better, enough to take an extra 2 minutes to spray a sheet of paper with adhesive.

As an aside, I experimented with some things to see what I can set such fins on, that CA won't bond to. I've learned the hard way that it bonds to glass just fine.

Here's a shot of some of the experimentation:
Cassiopeia 007.jpg

With wood scraps, I tried the following materials with stated results:

1. The plastic magnet sheet which I love for doing wood gluing on: FAIL. CA sticks strongly to it.
2. Wax paper: The wax paper peeled with minimal effort from the glued wood scrap, but I have concerns that the glue took some of the wax with it, which might cause problems painting (fisheye, surface tension spots and such).
3. Monokote backing paper: peeled perfectly, excellent results, just be careful that the glue may not be entirely dry under there
4. An old Ziploc style bag that once was used by Semroc to pack me up some parts: again, peeled perfectly but watch out for uncured glue

So, my stash of old SEMROC Ziploc bags will get another use added to them, so that I don't have to worry if I get some runs over the side of fins while sealing papered fins.

Did I mention I ordered some CA debonder last night? Accidentally got some CA on my fingers and bonded them. Got them apart just in time. Usually I'm not so careless. Note, I was wearing good eye protection and made sure to use proper ventilation.
 
A note about weight:

This way of papering fins isn't light. But keep in mind that it saves in the back end, against the need for lots of filler primer, putty, cwf, that kind of thing.

The set of 3 fins (balsa plus small amount of wood glue on the gluing edges and joins for the back triangular pieces) weighed in at 4.2 grams. After papering (no CA yet), they had gained 1.8 grams just in paper, for a total of 6.0 grams. After the CA had cured, I weighed them again (this morning, so full cure is assured), and they had jumped to 9.0 grams. So the paper and CA weigh more than the raw fins.

However, the fins were pretty grainy and this would have required 2-3 coats of filler primer, or CWF (which drinks in filler primer too), maybe some spot putty. I've done measurements of this kind of thing before, and going the CA papering route probably results in a fin about 15% heavier than it would be by more traditional methods. But it's easy, saves me finishing time, and those fins are rock hard.

There are some discs I've got on the way from SEMROC that go over the glue joints where the fins are glued together; these were structural in the original kit but will more decorative on mine, since the papered fins are pretty strong.

Marc
 
I also carefully measured the main central body tube for the rings, and glued them on AFTER testing fit with the outer body tube parts, to make sure everything lined up, and making minor adjustments as needed:

Cassiopeia 008.jpg

I felt foolish after I had glued on the rings. I meant to put on the motor hook and one of those plastic hold-down collars around it near the middle... but I forgot to slide one on before putting on the rings so it's now too late unless I slice through it first to slip it on. I'll probably just go with some tape. Also need to put in the engine block tonight.

Marc
 
Can see where on the fin thing it is a tradeoff with don't benefit or do benefit either way. Can see where minimization of hassle plus added sturdiness would have much in their favor.
May have to try this fin papering thing some time.
 
Last night I took a quick pass at the fins with a 180 grit sanding sponge. This sponge, which is far from new, has just enough tooth left to do a great job smoothing out any CA roughness on the fin surfaces. After about five minutes work, the fins were smooth and ready to mount to the body tube.

I used the inner body tube with rings as a mandrel and put the outer BT50 body tube on it, on my fin jig. Note, the BT50 is NOT!! glued to the centering rings. It's a snug but not bonded fit in the following pictures. Otherwise, you'd all be saying: "You glued the fins on upside down and in the wrong direction!"

Here are pics of the assembly on my fin gluing guide:

Cassiopeia 009.jpgCassiopeia 010.jpgCassiopeia 011.jpg

This morning I pulled the assembly (BT50 plus fins) off the inner tube/rings and it looks great. Nice and even. Filleted with Molding and Trim wood glue and it's drying now; will take pics tonight.
 
The fins on the BT-50 are well aligned and I'm ecstatic about getting them on right. You'd think that would be no big deal given my use of a fin jig, but sometimes I screw up anyway. So when it works, I am happy.

Cassiopeia 013.jpg

But it quickly became apparent that something wasn't right. The fin extensions are longer than I expected them to be compared to the ringfin which is exactly 1":

Cassiopeia 014.jpgCassiopeia 015.jpg

You can see the fin extensions are almost 1.25" ... 20-25% larger than expected... I probably should have measured that length when I was fussing about a 3% scale concern in the body wrap marking guide. :eek: :eek:

I measured the fins against the fin template... a close match (within 5% say). So I build the fins to within reasonable tolerance to the template. I see several options:

1. I can attach the ring fin at the bottom of the fin extensions... there will be a gap between the top of the ring fin and the line where the extensions meet the main fin.

2. I can attach the ring fin at the top of the extensions, meeting up with the main fin, then sand flat the tips of the extensions to match the length of the ring fin.

3. I can cut or sand down the extensions along a line parallel to the grain, effectively reducing the length of the extensions... this will also remove a small amount at the outside of the main fin near the extensions.

4. If I had some BT101, I could cut a longer ringfin (I have no BT101 stock other than the ringfin).

EDIT:
Option 5. I could sand off material starting 1" into the fin extension meeting up at the outside point where the extension and main fin meet, changing this angle. I think this may be the way to go.


Or I could do more drastic things like make a new fin set.

Haven't decided yet what to do. I'm leaning towards #5.

Marc
 
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Options.jpg

After thinking about it during my kids' bath/bedtime routine, I've decided to opt for #5. I'll try the hobby knife first, after making careful markings for where the ring fin will end up.
 
OK, got this sorted out. I went with "solution #5" and cut off the excess material at an angle so as not to weaken the fin/fin extension joint.

I originally thought because of the CA hardening the balsa/paper I might need to use my disc sander to buzz it off, but actually a couple passes with a sharp hobby knife did the trick.

Cassiopeia 016.jpg

I sealed the new edge with some thin CA and then ran a little thick CA for gap filling purposes. Curing now. Light buffing with some sandpaper and I should be good to go.

Marc
 
Looking good here Marc. I'm enjoying this thread (but then, I usually do).
 
I glued the ringfin to the fin extensions. No special tricks or anything. I scuffed up the glassine around the attachment point in one spot and gave it the first coat of glue in standard double-glue-joint fashion. Remember, I had pre-glue-covered the inside edge of the fin extensions.

When the ringfin glue was dry, I gave it the second coat of glue and positioned the ringfin against one of the fin extensions. It grabbed in normal way. I let it dry completely before proceeding.

With the first attachment dry, I used a nail file to scuff glassine in the other two spots. There weren't major gaps, just small ones, so I used Titebond Molding and Trim Wood glue to make the second and third joints, using a thin coat and building in fillets. Also filleted the first joint. I let it dry for several hours. Looks good.

Next I dry fit the pieces. You can see the various parts here:

Cassiopeia 017.jpg

Closeups of the Kevlar attachment point and the motor mount. On the mount, I was a bit sloppy cutting the slot for the engine hook to go through, so I patched with some tubing and titebond II glue. I also put a ring around midway on the engine hook.

Cassiopeia 018.jpgCassiopeia 019.jpg

Everything dry fit together:

Cassiopeia 020.jpg

I then glued on the top (long) and middle (short) outer body tubes. I've still got some work to do on the lower section with the fins, first.
 
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