mikec
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OT, but I'm pretty sure Kosdon by Aerotech reloads are certified in California. Not sure about the CTI reloads that fit in AMW hardware.
CJ's "HOW TO BUILD A DARKSTAR 3 OR ANY GLASS KIT BUILD" STARTS
- Thread starter blackjack2564
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bandman444
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You are right. I was thinking about KBA, but I have never seen a case for them and flyers are few and far between. (14 L2300s though are coming to town)
The Rocket Kid
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aye comrads welcome to the socialist republic of california! thats just the way things are around here........uuuuugggghhhh.
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blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
I thought about this & there will probably be others with the same dilemma.
So hopefully this will simply the fitting of Tailcone retainer....
If you are NOT going to use any snap-ring cases the the original fitting I did is correct.
You can fit it WITHOUT any motor & you will be alright.
Showing how CTI or AT motor closure will be flush with retainer.
Screw on cap & it fits perfect.
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
But if you ARE going to use snap-ring motors:
These motors will extend out the rear of retainer a bit. [one in retainer, snap-ring]
NOT allowing the cap to screw down as tight, if you fitted it just for AT & CTI.
Cap will be tight to retainer, but due to extra length of motor hanging out of retainer, not tight to airframe. [Gap]
These motors will extend out the rear of retainer a bit. [one in retainer, snap-ring]
NOT allowing the cap to screw down as tight, if you fitted it just for AT & CTI.
Cap will be tight to retainer, but due to extra length of motor hanging out of retainer, not tight to airframe. [Gap]
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blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
So put a snap-ring motor in retainer when fitting. 1st pic.
Or use the supplied ring on a regular motor to fit retainer 2nd pic.
This will extend motor same as snap-ring. 3rd pic
Now fit the retainer using either set-up. I would definitely put a motor in to fit, just to be sure.
Now the when cap is screwed on they fit flush. 4th pic.
But note.....if fitted for snap ring motors....then the spacer MUST be used on CTI &AT motors or there will be a loose fit with OUT it........[motor can slide back & forth inside retainer, same amount as ring width]
So you must decide whether you want to use retainer for all types of motors. Then you use the spacer ring.
Or just AT & CTI..... you don't need it.
Hopefully I made this clearer.:smile:
Or use the supplied ring on a regular motor to fit retainer 2nd pic.
This will extend motor same as snap-ring. 3rd pic
Now fit the retainer using either set-up. I would definitely put a motor in to fit, just to be sure.
Now the when cap is screwed on they fit flush. 4th pic.
But note.....if fitted for snap ring motors....then the spacer MUST be used on CTI &AT motors or there will be a loose fit with OUT it........[motor can slide back & forth inside retainer, same amount as ring width]
So you must decide whether you want to use retainer for all types of motors. Then you use the spacer ring.
Or just AT & CTI..... you don't need it.
Hopefully I made this clearer.:smile:
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blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Whew! I really wanted to make it clear, there really is no info out there about this.
[losing that ring] ............. you & about half the folks that ever had one! Lol
UncleVanya
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Just cut a small ring from a LOC or PML motor tube to use as a replacement.
I'm not clear why the airframe to tailcone retainer gap is there - is that JUST because of how you fitted yours - can you fit it so that there is no gap or is this inherent in using this spacer?
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Brad... Have you read this whole thread... or are you just coming in?
It was covered a ways back.
Basically I forgot to fit the retainer[before installing, just tacked it in] for snap-ring motors, which protrude further than standard ones.
This involves using the darn ring. Once discovered, I corrected the problem & finished the install.
That is a good solution of cutting a new ring from other stock.
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Time to inject the internal fillets, this method when done correctly, has proven itself in builds all the way up to 12in. airframes utilizing 6in. "O" motors. Wildman started doing this years ago. It's proven, it works, enough said.
I always set up a "glue station" with all supplies needed through out my builds. Makes it easier as you go.
Tape one set of fins to cover injection holes & gap between fin & body tube. This 1 set will face down during injection of top 2 fins. If there are any leaks, this will keep glue inside airframe & prevents it dripping out....all over the place.
[Bonus....if it does leak, ya just got a set of fillets internally, body tube to fin.lol]
This taped side goes down.
Now I removed & re-tape the fins that will get the first set of injected internal fillets. I beat up the tape from all the picture taking. hopefully you won't need to do this. I don't want to get any epoxy where it doesn't belong, since I'm keeping it black & doing black external fillets as well.
Now we're ready to mix glue!
I always set up a "glue station" with all supplies needed through out my builds. Makes it easier as you go.
Tape one set of fins to cover injection holes & gap between fin & body tube. This 1 set will face down during injection of top 2 fins. If there are any leaks, this will keep glue inside airframe & prevents it dripping out....all over the place.
[Bonus....if it does leak, ya just got a set of fillets internally, body tube to fin.lol]
This taped side goes down.
Now I removed & re-tape the fins that will get the first set of injected internal fillets. I beat up the tape from all the picture taking. hopefully you won't need to do this. I don't want to get any epoxy where it doesn't belong, since I'm keeping it black & doing black external fillets as well.
Now we're ready to mix glue!
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blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Syringes can be purchased anywhere such as WalMart , CVS, Walgreen, Rite-aid,Wildmans. Some places they are out to grab, others ya must ask at counter. Tractor Supply & farm supply houses have them too. Some of the holes are tiny[on some syringes] and you must cut tip back, to make it a bit larger.[at an angle] The easiest to find for me, were the ones used to give kids liquid medicine. Ya don't want the ones for real needles.
I use a bit of chopped carbon fiber, you can get it many places.[mine came from Wildmans,5-6bucks is a lifetime supply] use chopped Kevlar, milled fiberglass also. If you don't have any, don't worry a rocket this size is just fine without.
Need 5ml of glue for each fin. 4 fins each set = 20ml. Guess what, that's exactly 1 pump using West pumps!
So 1 pump of West resin & 1 pump of hardener. If ya don't have the pumps, mixing cups are labeled on the side.
Mix resin & hardener first....then add in chopped fibers...in this case size of dime.
Mix thoroughly to break them up . About a minute total mixing in each direction, back & forth.
DON"T make the rookie mistake of thinking more is better....it is NOT. You will end up with a hairball that won't suck up the syringe & won't inject. Trust me on this one!
Suck up 10 ml into syringe, mine are so old [at least 5yrs] I had to re-label, I clean & re-use, over & over.
Gotta go do some Xmas shopping....be back to finish later.
I use a bit of chopped carbon fiber, you can get it many places.[mine came from Wildmans,5-6bucks is a lifetime supply] use chopped Kevlar, milled fiberglass also. If you don't have any, don't worry a rocket this size is just fine without.
Need 5ml of glue for each fin. 4 fins each set = 20ml. Guess what, that's exactly 1 pump using West pumps!
So 1 pump of West resin & 1 pump of hardener. If ya don't have the pumps, mixing cups are labeled on the side.
Mix resin & hardener first....then add in chopped fibers...in this case size of dime.
Mix thoroughly to break them up . About a minute total mixing in each direction, back & forth.
DON"T make the rookie mistake of thinking more is better....it is NOT. You will end up with a hairball that won't suck up the syringe & won't inject. Trust me on this one!
Suck up 10 ml into syringe, mine are so old [at least 5yrs] I had to re-label, I clean & re-use, over & over.
Gotta go do some Xmas shopping....be back to finish later.
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blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
1. My syringe holds 10ml of glue so 5ml go in rear fin.
2. 5 ml go on front.
Refill & do same to other 2 fins. If you measured and mixed right, you had just enough, with no waste left over.
3. I check to be sure they are level, so fillets will be too.
4. Note that the glue is just barely coming back out of my injection holes. Internally it's full, adding anymore than the 5ml will just be wasted. It's more overflow on the rear fins because the root length is a bit shorter. Not enough to really matter. Having done this dozens of times before, is how I know how much epoxy to use.
5. Clean my syringe by flushing with denatured alcohol, for re-use.
Go to next set when these cure.
2. 5 ml go on front.
Refill & do same to other 2 fins. If you measured and mixed right, you had just enough, with no waste left over.
3. I check to be sure they are level, so fillets will be too.
4. Note that the glue is just barely coming back out of my injection holes. Internally it's full, adding anymore than the 5ml will just be wasted. It's more overflow on the rear fins because the root length is a bit shorter. Not enough to really matter. Having done this dozens of times before, is how I know how much epoxy to use.
5. Clean my syringe by flushing with denatured alcohol, for re-use.
Go to next set when these cure.
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blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
It's been a couple of years since I have bought any syringes. I usually just clean & re-use.
But since I was out shopping at a Wal-Mart Super store anyhow, stopped by the pharmacy & asked for a couple of syringes used for giving kids liquid medicine.
I got quite the surprise. Counter lady GAVE them to me & told me they were free just for the asking!
So know you know where to get some freebies! At least at the Super stores, next time you are there.
They are only 5 ml, but so what the price is right.
But since I was out shopping at a Wal-Mart Super store anyhow, stopped by the pharmacy & asked for a couple of syringes used for giving kids liquid medicine.
I got quite the surprise. Counter lady GAVE them to me & told me they were free just for the asking!
So know you know where to get some freebies! At least at the Super stores, next time you are there.
They are only 5 ml, but so what the price is right.
Green Jello
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Interesting. So you just let gravity do the job by keeping them level? I thought I read somewhere else, that you tilted the rocket and let it run to both ends before setting it level. Of course with the black fiberglass, you can't see the epoxy in there.
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Correct you can't see it & on this build the glue might run out the holes, it's that full. On larger tubes I do tilt a bit, but there is much more epoxy involved & I want to help it along. Lol
Larger amounts of glue/larger fillets tend to flash off/cure much faster.
Jim,
Nice build. You make me want to order one to build over here. Unfortunately, that don't make it through customs.
I would love to launch one on midtour. Well, maybe a crash build in August for Freedom Launch.
Nice build. You make me want to order one to build over here. Unfortunately, that don't make it through customs.
I would love to launch one on midtour. Well, maybe a crash build in August for Freedom Launch.
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
THAT can be arranged & so can my help if ya want to speed build it over the weekend. LOL!
sschnege
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Hey, Jim, I'm actually about to start scratch-building a 5.5" rocket (Blue Tube or Magnaframe... haven't locked that down yet, but sorta leaning toward Blue Tube), with a 54mm or 75mm mount. The fins will be an almost identical clone to the DarkStar fins. What is the distance between the upper/lower fin sets? I think I have mine closer together. Not sure whether I don't like that better, but figured I'd ask...
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Post # 149
These are the eye nuts I have been using.
https://www.cdimodelrocketry.com/proddetail.php?prod=CK3908
https://www.cdimodelrocketry.com/proddetail.php?prod=CK3908
I would appreciate that. I would also say that "crash" build may have been a poor choice of words.
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Home stretch for fillets.
All that hard work of taping and sanding pays off right here.
The black fillets came out perfect, right to the tape lines, no scuff/sanding marks showing. [Pro-Line epoxy high temp from Wildman]
This stuff is mixed by weight, so get out your old triple beams from the 60-70's [or what ever ya got Lol]
5.5 black resin to 1 hardener is the mix ratio .
I want 3x's that amount.
16.5 resin + 3 hardener = 19.5 total for 4 fins ALL MEASUREMENTS ARE IN GRAMS!
Pour it carefully into the V-groove and pull out with a 1in. section of PVC pipe to get the same results I did. Wear nitrile gloves & wear old cloths, this stuff seems to get on everything, no matter how hard ya try. Have some denatured alcohol on hand for clean up or be sorry.
As you can see.....they came out perfect!. No sanding needed, this stuff does flow out amazing. 19.5 is just enough, I had to scrape the mixing cup clean with stick to finish, so add a bit more if you're the sloppy type.
If you are not going for that "black on black" look, use your regular epoxy and a thickener such as WEST 406, mixed to peanut butter consistency and do fillets with that.
Nice shiny finished fillets............ these are cured & hard, pics taken next day, not while wet.[though it looks like it]
All that hard work of taping and sanding pays off right here.
The black fillets came out perfect, right to the tape lines, no scuff/sanding marks showing. [Pro-Line epoxy high temp from Wildman]
This stuff is mixed by weight, so get out your old triple beams from the 60-70's [or what ever ya got Lol]
5.5 black resin to 1 hardener is the mix ratio .
I want 3x's that amount.
16.5 resin + 3 hardener = 19.5 total for 4 fins ALL MEASUREMENTS ARE IN GRAMS!
Pour it carefully into the V-groove and pull out with a 1in. section of PVC pipe to get the same results I did. Wear nitrile gloves & wear old cloths, this stuff seems to get on everything, no matter how hard ya try. Have some denatured alcohol on hand for clean up or be sorry.
As you can see.....they came out perfect!. No sanding needed, this stuff does flow out amazing. 19.5 is just enough, I had to scrape the mixing cup clean with stick to finish, so add a bit more if you're the sloppy type.
If you are not going for that "black on black" look, use your regular epoxy and a thickener such as WEST 406, mixed to peanut butter consistency and do fillets with that.
Nice shiny finished fillets............ these are cured & hard, pics taken next day, not while wet.[though it looks like it]
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Pantherjon
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Grams? Ounces? Pounds? Kilos?
I am pretty sure it is Grams, right Jim? :tongue:
Pretty!
You are the fillet master!:wink:UncleVanya
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Honestly while I have followed it I wasn't 100% clear on what the adjustment you made was vs. what was just the way it worked. What I was afraid of (and it not the case) is that there was some fitting involved that wouldn't permit the use of the ring without leaving the gap - but now I see in re-reading that it's only because of the initial fitting without the ring that this is the case. As always PLAN AHEAD...
Thinking about it more - I'm guessing some of the Rocketry Warehouse grab boxes might contain 38mm fiberglass motor mounts that could spare a tiny trim...
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The picture's a little fuzzy but it's a gram balance.
Grams? Ounces? Pounds? Kilos?
I am pretty sure it is Grams, right Jim? :tongue:
Pretty!
UncleVanya
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Grams? Ounces? Pounds? Kilos?
I am pretty sure it is Grams, right Jim? :tongue:
Realistically this is a mistake you'll only make once. The ratio's aren't going to change no matter what the units are. But when you measure the first item wrong you'll already know this is waaaaaaay too little or waaaaaaay too much.
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
I am pretty sure it is Grams, right Jim? :tongue:
Pretty!
Good catch there Jon, thanks.....went back and added GRAMS.
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Just finished the last set. Knowing my amounts were correct, I had time to take some more detail pics.
Section of 1in. PVC pipe used to pull fillets [to this size] & make sure your tape is straight & has no damaged edges. You can do smaller or larger...I chose this from past experience, did not want to add excess weight to rear of rocket. 6 fins is 12 fillets, it can add up fast.
Shot of approximate amounts I pour into fins. Start with less, then try a pull with smoothing tool, add more if needed. You Don't want excess with this stuff, it's really messy.
Start at one end of fin, with smooth even pressure, and slight angle on tool, pull out fillet in one stroke start to finish.
It will drip at end of fins, so have a rag with alcohol ready to clean. You will have about 15-20 minutes from mixing till the epoxy starts to thicken & get gooey. Too thick to smooth anymore, but still along way from setting up hard [2hrs to handle 6-8 hard] at room temps of 70-75. Make sure to wipe off your tool for next time, cause if ya forget.....toss it and make another.LOL Ya ain't gonna get it off once cured.
Pull tape after 10-15minutes, if you wait till full cure you may not get all the tape off.
Finally I don't know if using the black stuff is advisable for first time or raw-recruits to use, it's messy [you will get it on you!] and a bit tricky to use. Once mastered it's the bomb. Ya might want to try it on a 3 finned model first.
How about some feed back from others who have used it. Would you recommend it for first timers on fillets?
Section of 1in. PVC pipe used to pull fillets [to this size] & make sure your tape is straight & has no damaged edges. You can do smaller or larger...I chose this from past experience, did not want to add excess weight to rear of rocket. 6 fins is 12 fillets, it can add up fast.
Shot of approximate amounts I pour into fins. Start with less, then try a pull with smoothing tool, add more if needed. You Don't want excess with this stuff, it's really messy.
Start at one end of fin, with smooth even pressure, and slight angle on tool, pull out fillet in one stroke start to finish.
It will drip at end of fins, so have a rag with alcohol ready to clean. You will have about 15-20 minutes from mixing till the epoxy starts to thicken & get gooey. Too thick to smooth anymore, but still along way from setting up hard [2hrs to handle 6-8 hard] at room temps of 70-75. Make sure to wipe off your tool for next time, cause if ya forget.....toss it and make another.LOL Ya ain't gonna get it off once cured.
Pull tape after 10-15minutes, if you wait till full cure you may not get all the tape off.
Finally I don't know if using the black stuff is advisable for first time or raw-recruits to use, it's messy [you will get it on you!] and a bit tricky to use. Once mastered it's the bomb. Ya might want to try it on a 3 finned model first.
How about some feed back from others who have used it. Would you recommend it for first timers on fillets?
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