help with papering

I have just started on my fitfth rocket and I wanted to do a little more on the finishing part of it so I decided to try papering the fins. I was pretty pleased with my results untill it came time to CA the edges. The glue soaked into the paper and really stained them,I also managed to get a couple drops on my now papered fins.I want to try sanding the drops off but I'm afraid I'll scuff up the paper touch .Any advice would be most welcome also is there a neat way to use CA? I got drops of it all over my work space Thanks again

pepe said:

I have just started on my fitfth rocket and I wanted to do a little more on the finishing part of it so I decided to try papering the fins. I was pretty pleased with my results untill it came time to CA the edges. The glue soaked into the paper and really stained them,I also managed to get a couple drops on my now papered fins.I want to try sanding the drops off but I'm afraid I'll scuff up the paper touch .Any advice would be most welcome also is there a neat way to use CA? I got drops of it all over my work space Thanks again

Click to expand...

Sanding will not remove the "stains"... it's just a change in translucence from the CA bonding the paper fibers together and creating a different "light path" for photons through the paper. Unless the surface is rough or gritty and needs smoothing out, go ahead and spray the primer on the fins, sand, and paint as normal (as detailed in another thread here about painting).

Later and good luck! OL JR

PS. I paper fins with printer paper and a VERY THIN EVEN LAYER of WHITE glue spread over the entire surface of the paper where the fin will be placed, putting the leading edge of the fin facing toward the center of the sheet of paper, with the trailing edge of the fin at least a half inch from the edge of the paper... Then apply another THIN layer of glue to the either the upper surface of the fin (after you've pressed one side down firmly onto the glue-applied paper) and then ROLL THE FIN OVER THE LEADING EDGE and press it down again. Burnish the paper down tight to the fin, squeezing out any excess glue, working from the center of the leading edge toward the rear of the fin and the root and tip edges of the fin... (I use a round-tipped sharpie marker for burnishing-- works terrific!) Flip the fin over and repeat. Allow to dry overnight, cut the fins out with scissors (to within about 1/4 inch of the edge of the fin) and then use a SHARP hobby knife (fresh blade) to "shave" the excess paper off the edges of the fin down flush to the balsa wood... works like a champ, and no CA'ing of the edges required whatsoever...

I agree what Luke said. When he says a "VERY THIN EVEN LAYER of WHITE glue", he means a very, very thin layer, and definatly use white glue. Yellow glue will shrink too much (I tried). As far as rolling over the leading edge, I refer to that as 'Taco-papering'. Think of putting the leading (front) edge of the fin in a taco shell. About the only thing I do different from Lukes technique, is to let the fin dry pressed between 2 pieces of glass. I use the thick plates of glass from a halogen light, and use a few spring clamps for even pressure, and the fins turn out darn near like fiberglass. It takes longer for the fins to dry sandwiched between glass, so every once in awhile I will unclamp them, and turn them. I've found they are done when they seem to 'hoover', they will slide very easily on the glass when they are dry. (Think 'like a puck on an air-hockey table')

If you want to do any rounding over, or airfoiling, that should be done before you paper it. I found when taco-papering, a rounded over leading edge works great when you flip the fin to glue the other side, the paper just rolls with the edge. It seems easier than trying to fold the paper over a square-cut edge. I've even 'knife-edged' the trailing edge, but that needs extra burnishing, because it's not in contact with the glass when drying.

I have had a few sets of my taco-papered fins looking like plastic fins. Smo-ooth! (ok, I wet sanded the primer down to 800 grit, but still...)

You will be amazed on how much more strong and rigid the fin will be, I know I was.

Practice on a few scrap pieces of balsa. It's really not too difficult, but certainly a learn-by-doing-it thing. My #1 Tip?...Don't use too much glue!

Luke, I see you apply glue to the paper, I apply the glue to the balsa. You suppose that matters?

I don't CA the edges either.


This all sounds kind of confusing, I think a few pics of the process may help. Oh, better yet, a video! (Luke, you got anything like that?)




I'll give you :2: if you can tell me who I learned this from...:wink:

McKailas Dad said:

I agree what Luke said. When he says a "VERY THIN EVEN LAYER of WHITE glue", he means a very, very thin layer, and definatly use white glue. Yellow glue will shrink too much (I tried). As far as rolling over the leading edge, I refer to that as 'Taco-papering'. Think of putting the leading (front) edge of the fin in a taco shell. About the only thing I do different from Lukes technique, is to let the fin dry pressed between 2 pieces of glass. I use the thick plates of glass from a halogen light, and use a few spring clamps for even pressure, and the fins turn out darn near like fiberglass. It takes longer for the fins to dry sandwiched between glass, so every once in awhile I will unclamp them, and turn them. I've found they are done when they seem to 'hoover', they will slide very easily on the glass when they are dry. (Think 'like a puck on an air-hockey table')

If you want to do any rounding over, or airfoiling, that should be done before you paper it. I found when taco-papering, a rounded over leading edge works great when you flip the fin to glue the other side, the paper just rolls with the edge. It seems easier than trying to fold the paper over a square-cut edge. I've even 'knife-edged' the trailing edge, but that needs extra burnishing, because it's not in contact with the glass when drying.

I have had a few sets of my taco-papered fins looking like plastic fins. Smo-ooth! (ok, I wet sanded the primer down to 800 grit, but still...)

You will be amazed on how much more strong and rigid the fin will be, I know I was.

Practice on a few scrap pieces of balsa. It's really not too difficult, but certainly a learn-by-doing-it thing. My #1 Tip?...Don't use too much glue!

Luke, I see you apply glue to the paper, I apply the glue to the balsa. You suppose that matters?

I don't CA the edges either.


This all sounds kind of confusing, I think a few pics of the process may help. Oh, better yet, a video! (Luke, you got anything like that?)




I'll give you :2: if you can tell me who I learned this from...:wink:

Click to expand...

I've done it both ways Jeff... hasn't seemed to matter to me... it works equally well either way. You are correct-- a VERY VERY thin layer of glue and burnishing with the magic marker is the real key. You CAN use the glass, but I've found it isn't really necessary-- a thin layer of glue will not put enough moisture there to create a problem with warpage or whatever... the problem the glass creates, is that it prevents ANY airflow around the major surfaces of the fins, which then makes the only way for the glue to dry is though the moisture working its way out around the edges of the fin, which isn't but maybe an eighth of an inch or so wide... not a good way to dry... it'd be about like trying to make toast by heating the bread all the way around the crust while leaving the flat sides untouched, or worse yet, sealed off by saran wrap...

I find that it's easiest to apply the glue to the paper, then press the fin down firmly onto the paper (not crushingly hard so you dent the balsa, to the unitiated) and then either apply the second layer of glue to the paper itself, or to the top surface of the fin... either way works. That's how i usually do it. I DO think it's easier to get a thin even layer of glue on the paper rather than the balsa... when I apply the glue to the wood, usually more excess glue gets burnished out later... the key to the whole job is a REALLY GOOD bunishing job to squeeze every last excess drop of glue out from between the paper and wood... leave only an extremely thin film... if the glue is too thick to start with, it will dissolve the paper before you get it burnished down-- the paper will wrinkle, warp, or make a huge mess... the key is THIN, THIN, THIN layer of glue...

LateR! OL JR

Thanks I'm going to continue to work with the fins I have to see what I can do with them but I'll be ordering another set from Semco to start over with using the Taco method

I just finished up my first full box of 100 sheets of 8 1/2" X 11" label paper - that's a coverin' a lot of squishy balsa lumber. No white glue necessary, no mess, no warp, no weight, no squeezin', no wrappin'. Just slap dem fins down and cut along edge with Xacto knife. Use just enough CA to soak into the balsa edge, not too much, not too fast. Cheap Locktite CA OK - no nasty super thin stuff - unless you are a PRO. If some does get on the surface of the paper then just have a tooth pick handy and level it out as best you can - it will soak in - OMG! you are making even a bigger mess -PANIC!!! As the hitch hiker books says "DON'T PANIC" - remember you are going to cover it up with paint anyway! If you used way too much glue and have a big blob CAREFULLY sand only the glued area - not the virgin paper - and then make a pact with yourself to slow down and not to use too much glue! You should never have dripping CA. Sand the edge down as soon as the CA cures - much easier than sanding really hard cured CA. I have easily done a ton of strong, light, smooth and water resistant fins this way with virtually no runs, drips or errors. And most importantly it is real cheap too - no expensive basswood replacement, sanding sealer, thinner, brush, etc! Fast, easy, NO PAIN, NO PAIN!

More things to PANIC about: OMG Label paper will wrinkle on fillets!! Well there you go again - usin' too much glue, just let it dry and press the label paper down again.

OMG Label paper will wrinkle when I give it heavy coats of primer and paint!!! See above.

OMG I have to have perfect rounded or tapered edges - not squared because the old dudes will criticize my techniques and aerodynamics - they will call square edges the bane of the hobby sayin' my rocket will fly only 3/4's as high as its potential! PANIC!!! Golly, if you are that picky then you have to use the PRO white glue techniques outlined above, or use filler to cover any paper edge, or just give in to the old dudes and get out toxic sanding sealer or sand the dusty wood filler. Bye Bye easy-easy, hello Old School! Give into the hard work and PAIN of the perfect old school finish and LIKE IT!

OMG Label paper will debond at the edge! Not mine, on my oldest jobs and heavily flow rockets I am just beginning to see some small edge areas debond. A tiny drop of CA and as good as new. I have had papered fins float in the lake for a half hour with no problem. Stronger, lighter and cheaper than old school Basswood - but by golly they ain't gonna give up that lovely Basswood and good for them! Old School Rules and I still love me Basswood

So I've been wondering, is the paper what gives most of the strength, or does a good deal of the extra rigidity comes from the glue? Also, what about papering with tissue paper? I'm trying this on the 1/32" balsa fins of a competition bird and so far it seems to be working pretty well.
Oh, and just to make you mad, I paper with yellow glue! :neener:

Just my 2¢, but I've used the kid's glue sticks to paper fins, and it works not too badly as long as you clamp the fin well during the drying process.

pepe said:

Thanks I'm going to continue to work with the fins I have to see what I can do with them but I'll be ordering another set from Semco to start over with using the Taco method

Click to expand...

Love Semroc, but you DO know you can just get some balsa sheet from Hobby Lobby or the local hobby shop, trace the old fins onto it, and cut them out with a steel straightedge and a sharp hobby knife right??

Later! OL JR

PS. do a search on "papering fins" and there's a thread on here all about it, including pics I took during my "Dr. Zooch Vanguard Eagle beta build" thread showing how I do the papering of fins, complete with step-by-step instructions and PICTURES of each step... or just search for the Vanguard Eagle thread by luke strawwalker... the pics and text are in there too, about halfway down the page IIRC...

Unfortunately no LHS exists out here , so I ordered two sets of fins from Semroc .I'm going to paper one set and fill, sand and seal the other.I just want to see what works better for me. Also, Titebond Trim and Molding Glue seems to be the most preferred product for making fillets but that doesn't seem to be available to me locally so untill I can track some down would wood,white or something else be a decent replacement. Thanks again to everyone .

pepe said:

Unfortunately no LHS exists out here , so I ordered two sets of fins from Semroc .I'm going to paper one set and fill, sand and seal the other.I just want to see what works better for me. Also, Titebond Trim and Molding Glue seems to be the most preferred product for making fillets but that doesn't seem to be available to me locally so untill I can track some down would wood,white or something else be a decent replacement. Thanks again to everyone .

Click to expand...

In the abscence of TMTG, the best thing to use is wood glue... just remember to apply it in THIN layers... Also, use double glue joints to attach your fins... that's in my Dr. ZOOCH SLS build thread,with pics, IIRC... Basically you just apply a THIN layer of yellow glue to the fin root edge, lightly sand the tube to rough up the glassine layer where the fins are going to be glued to the tube, then apply a THIN layer of yellow glue to the tube fin lines, then let both dry about 30 minutes or so... Doesn't have to be COMPLETELY dry, but it doesn't hurt if it is... Then when you're ready to glue the fins on, apply another THIN layer of yellow glue to the fin root edge, line it up with the tube carefully, and press the fin in place. Hold it 20-30 seconds, and the fin will "lock" in place, almost as fast as super glue, but with WAY WAY more strength! Any yellow glue that is squeezed out from under the fin can be spread with a swipe of your finger... I usually apply a SMALL bead of glue along each side of the fin root, then spread it out very thin with a fingertip, along with any droplets squeezed out of the fin root...

The main thing to remember is to keep your fillet applications VERY THIN... If you want thicker fillets, just apply a few more applications on top... keep them thin. IF you apply the fillets thickly, they will develop bubbles and pits and voids, which then you have to go back and fill the things in... So while it might seem like more work to apply the fillets several times very thinly, it's actually less work than having to fill pits and voids... take my word for it.

Later and good luck! OL JR