TRF Summer Build Off: SSC - Spiral Spin Can

SinfulDarkLord said:

Soungs good, we can actually start with fiberglass as I have a ton of that stuff. Should make great test subjects before going CF .

Have fun hiking


Alexander Solis - TRA Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

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Thanks! Luckily, I have a few sheets of "rocketry" fg already...I had purchased 38mm and 54mm Rocketry Warehouse DYOK kits during their BF sale (I won't start on that...let's just say I got the parts ) and the DYOK is actually good for an upscale of this design.

Here's a pic of my second spiral spin can where I left room for a launch rod. This one is more conventional styled and the fins aren't as prominent; however it was done more as a test to see how it performs...



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...

[video=youtube;gFIRx-33Qx4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFIRx-33Qx4[/video]

...and it performed amazingly! This launch was off an 1/2A3-2T, which is a tiny motor and it almost went out of sight! Not only that, it landed close by. Great design and fantastic for small parks! I love how straight these fly! :grin:

This second design is a definite go for upscale! Shouldn't scare RSOs much since it looks more conventional as well.

Here's two more launches of the original design...first off an A10-3T with half the nose weight of the original launch (same weight applied to the rocket above) and it went out of sight! Came right back nearby too! Of note is that the streamer didn't unfurl (parawad), but it would've taken longer to come down if it did. Additionally, there was some binding on the rod despite the hole I made, so I need to enlarge it more, but I'll need to redesign the fin a bit so there's more meat in that lug hole area

Half nose weight - out of sight! :
[video=youtube;VOpwkvdSbXM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOpwkvdSbXM[/video]

Side note is that it's really hard to video with one hand while launching with the other (yes...I'm a one-man operation for most test launches). My launch hand actually slipped off the controller on "2", hence the pause before launch. :blush:

Also sorry if the rocket disappears...that's what happens with such small rockets on an A10. I may try a GoPro soon, but I really enjoy the convenience of using my phone and it's set to auto-upload to an account, so I'm hesitant to give up this great convenience.

Second launch of original design with no/zero nose weight and shorter tube to test an extreme variation...

[video=youtube;5QTdhovAYzI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QTdhovAYzII&feature=youtu.be[/video]

This one wasn't as good as the others. This one exhibited what I had noted earlier with spin fin rockets that don't have a rotating can...after boost, the rocket went off to one side wobbly and spiralled on coast. It may be hard/impossible to see, but there was a spiral delay smoke trail. So this one needs nose weight, which makes sense to me since that can help keep the main body tube from spinning too much (and a longer bt helps). Also got a parawad...been trying longer streamers packed in tight, but that's not working very well.

Next step...upscales! :grin:

I love mini engines. A sturdy model with streamer always lands close.

Amsterdam said:

I love mini engines. A sturdy model with streamer always lands close.

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Funny you should mention that...I almost lost one today!

This morning I launched both mini versions...#1 with a regular length bt (truth be told I didn't realize I had a shorter tube that last time I tested it since it was a field swap) and no nose weight. While better than the last 0wt launch, it still wasn't that great and landed in the next baseball field about 60' away.

Next I launched ver2 with 1/2 nose wt on an A10-3T. Sucker teleported up so high I could barely see it and didn't even hear the ejection...additionally there were higher level winds which started taking it away (even on a streamer) and it landed somewhere far, past a very tall row of trees, so I couldn't see where it landed/ or if it got treed. I searched around for quite a while and was ready to give up and remembered my maxim...when searching for something, give it one last look when you're ready to give up. I then found it next to a fence...more than two fields away! This was a flight of about 30sec on a streamer! I might try A3-4T next time and maybe 0wt with 1/2A3.

Some additional updates:

Started on 18mm:


This one is modular too...I found a way to make removable "retainer lugs" with plastic caps/stands I had:








For this one I'm also making a ver1 spiral can, but this time with beefier lug area.

Also I've found some great material at Scratchbuilder's Paradise (AKA Dollar Value Store)...I'll provide info on the next update, but that's part of phase 3.

I lost one of my daughter's rockets (a Sky Dart from the Solar Scouts E2X launch set) to a tree on the edge of a field on a 1/2A engine. Those small and light rockets can go high and drift plenty, even with a streamer. An A10 on that little rocket would have teleported it out of sight. I learned a good little lesson about mini engines and streamers that day.

Wow, that last pic looks like I'm getting ready for a party!

neil_w said:

I lost one of my daughter's rockets (a Sky Dart from the Solar Scouts E2X launch set) to a tree on the edge of a field on a 1/2A engine. Those small and light rockets can go high and drift plenty, even with a streamer. An A10 on that little rocket would have teleported it out of sight. I learned a good little lesson about mini engines and streamers that day.

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KenECoyote said:

....A10-3T...I love this little motor since it's like a micro Vmax!

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:wink:

I've learned my lesson as well...I was initially thinking of going with less nose weight for more altitude, but now I'd prefer it to be more stable and some nose weight would be better for this design's performance.

While working on the 18mm upscales, I was considering the paint schemes and recalled hearing/reading a few times of a weird effect where if you paint a spin rocket half green and half red that when it spins on lift off it will have the illusion of yellow. I was wondering where this came from and couldn't recall if that was really the colors (doesn't make sense to me since those two colors blended aren't yellow), so I searched a bit and found this thread where the OP noted "it has a paint scheme that paints half the rocket red, and the other half green; creating the optical illusion as it spins that the rocket is actually yellow"; however later in the post the poster was disappointed to find out the design was questionable since it's rumored the designer never got it stable.

So I figured I'll try some color wheels to help me figure out how to paint the fins and then tried spin experiments...

Day's lesson: There are three primary colors; Yellow, Blue and Red. These blend together into: Green (Y&B); Orange (Y&R) and Purple (B&R).

Wikipedia: "Primary colors are sets of colors that can be combined to make a useful range of colors. For human applications, three primary colors are typically used, since human color vision is usually trichromatic." "...red, yellow, and blue are commonly used as primaries when painting or drawing."



So last night I created my most awesome color wheels...they spin too!

Yellow and blue spun to a somewhat greenish color (more greenish than the pic shows):



Red and Blue to "purple-ish":



So these did follow the color wheel and that made me even more suspicious of the "Red and Green = Yellow", but I figured I'd try this "Christmas miracle" and...




I'm glad I didn't paint it red and green. :wink:

I tried a few more shades of red and green and when very light it's almost whitish, then a bit darker it goes to grayish, then even darker it is brownish as above. Maybe in the right shades it will become "yellowish", but I'm not liking what I'm seeing here.

Today's updates!

Saw a shrimp-like bug on my car window as I headed out to the park for some launches. Good omen?


Next I launched a mini spin fin version with counter-rotating fins on a 1/2A3-2T...just a small extra spin fin on the bottom as a test to see what will happen...

[video=youtube;BUgtQz_BPoQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUgtQz_BPoQ[/video]

Good flight! Was straight, but seemed slower and while it sounded different, it wasn't worth the drag IMHO. Still a good test for a later different project with counter-rotating spin fins.

Excuse the holiday colors...I have a bunch of color-coded nose cones with the color denoting the weight range.

Next up...18mm Upscales! :w:

First the less spirally spin fin version on A8-3:

[video=youtube;IyUbRSoPiVQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyUbRSoPiVQ[/video]

Great flight! Very straight and you may notice some spiral exhaust at the end...there was a bit of binding on the spin can, but I didn't want to sand the bt down too much...I'll probably sand it more later for better rotation. Also there were some slight breezes blowing about (you can see the flag in the background during the launch). The rocket had a parawad; however I figured it would considering I had the chute in there for a while and I didn't think this was a problem necessarily given there was some breeze and I was too lazy to replace it with a streamer. Will fix that for next launch as well.

In this game of life we play here, I think I came up with a good alternate name for this rocket... Free Spin!

Of course if it crashes, you lose a turn.

Now 18mm Spiral upscale on A8-3:

[video=youtube;z6fMVAYoV6U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6fMVAYoV6U[/video]

Great flight! I love the spot landing! :grin:

My countdown seemed a bit "constipated" since there were breezes coming and going and I didn't want to launch during any of the bigger ones (you might hear some of the wind in the video before launch).

This was a nice launch and again shows how straight this design flies. I think it's because it's a gradual transition of vertical to slanted fins...slanted fins are good since they induce spin for stabilization; however they are draggy. The spiral fin allows air to more gradually transition and at the same time the spinning can further reduces drag since it allows the fin to move out of the way rather than the air trying to move the rocket. So says Mindsim!

Next build...EVEN BIGGER!!! :w:

BTW - I lengthened the bt on this spiral version since I think it looks better...I tried seeing how short looks vs. long and while the short version emphasizes the spiral fin, it looks a bit "odd". I like the sleeker look of the longer bt more and it is more stable, which is better.

K'Tesh said:

In this game of life we play here, I think I came up with a good alternate name for this rocket... Free Spin!

Of course if it crashes, you lose a turn.

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I really like it! However I had just decided on a new name for this last night...may be changing subject line soon.

Also if it crashes, my Mindsim says that it will drill itself to an altitude of -5'.

KenECoyote said:

I really like it! However I had just decided on a new name for this last night...may be changing subject line soon.

Also if it crashes, my Mindsim says that it will drill itself to an altitude of -5'.

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So, your Mindsim says that if it fails it will be boring? :wink:

K'Tesh said:

So, your Mindsim says that if it fails it will be boring? :wink:

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:rofl: You guys are hilarious! I love you guys! :grin:

Great work Ken, should be awesome in upscale .


Alexander Solis - TRA Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

KenECoyote said:

:rofl: You guys are hilarious! I love you guys! :grin:

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I know that you weren't done screwing around with this... And you should know by now, I wont stop either. :grin::lol:

You've got some screws loose Jim! :wink:

SinfulDarkLord said:

Great work Ken, should be awesome in upscale .

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Thanks Alex! Currently I plan on 29mm mt versions (one minimum diameter and one with 38mm rotating can). If you'd like, I can send you a scan of the fin patterns so you can try as well. Of course you can wait to see how nice or disastrous my upscale is.

Launch update:

#1 - Launched Mini Mild Spin fin on A3-4T to test that motor and that motor really boosted it up like crazy...almost out of sight (I guess because it's A Minimum Diameter rocket). Total time from launch to landing (on a streamer) was over 30 sec. Landed about 40' from the launch pad.

#2 - Launched 18mm Mild Spin fin on B6-4. Boosted very loud and shot up very far as well...higher than I thought it would and it was almost 30sec before it came down on a streamer. Barely missed a row of trees (I had adjusted the pad slightly to aim more for the treeline to stay away from the houses behind me...a bit too much apparently or I didn't account well for the higher winds).

#3 - Launched 18mm SSC (Spiral Spin Can) with less nose weight (about half previous) and on an A8-3 again. Beautiful fast and laser straight boost with a very nice deploy. Landed maybe 15' from pad.

BTW - Happy Father's Day to all you dads out there!

KenECoyote said:

You've got some screws loose Jim! :wink:

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Who's the one with the screwball rocket Ken?!



Of course if you win the competition, you'll need to celebrate with a screwdriver...

And now I've got to stop screwing around on the computer and get some sleep.

KenECoyote said:

Thanks Alex! Currently I plan on 29mm mt versions (one minimum diameter and one with 38mm rotating can). If you'd like, I can send you a scan of the fin patterns so you can try as well. Of course you can wait to see how nice or disastrous my upscale is.

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Would love to, I have a ton of fiberglass (minus the resin) to make tubes and fins. Missing nose cone too lol. I think I'll make thin walled tubes to fit standard estes nose cones.

I only have a 38mm mandrel so 38mm size it is lol. I also need to find a way to do that curved fin. Should be awesome though.


Alexander Solis - TRA Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

K'Tesh said:

Who's the one with the screwball rocket Ken?!

Of course if you win the competition, you'll need to celebrate with a screwdriver...

And now I've got to stop screwing around on the computer and get some sleep.

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LOL! How long have you been holding onto that image awaiting the occasion to post it? :wink:

SinfulDarkLord said:

Would love to, I have a ton of fiberglass (minus the resin) to make tubes and fins. Missing nose cone too lol. I think I'll make thin walled tubes to fit standard estes nose cones.

I only have a 38mm mandrel so 38mm size it is lol. I also need to find a way to do that curved fin. Should be awesome though.


Alexander Solis - TRA Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

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The SF2 would be easier to do since it's less "spirally" and also less bending. The SSC would be cooler, but harder. I'd reco the SF2 first since it doesn't require much flex and is easier, requires less nose weight and I think easier to ensure you have a good flight. I'm currently testing with some of those colored plastics I posted earlier and that may give some experience on how much flexing is needed, so stay posted! One alternative is to cut a template out of sheet metal, bend to shape and then use that to lay the fg/cf. Hold on tight...got some possible cool stuff coming...

KenECoyote said:

The SF2 would be easier to do since it's less "spirally" and also less bending. The SSC would be cooler, but harder. I'd reco the SF2 first since it doesn't require much flex and is easier, requires less nose weight and I think easier to ensure you have a good flight. I'm currently testing with some of those colored plastics I posted earlier and that may give some experience on how much flexing is needed, so stay posted! One alternative is to cut a template out of sheet metal, bend to shape and then use that to lay the fg/cf. Hold on tight...got some possible cool stuff coming...

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I am subscribed so I'll be watching . That sheet metal could work out well. I just need a hard surface so I can use my rollers. I hate using brushes now a days.

Good luck with those colored plastics. Should be awesome.


Alexander Solis - TRA Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet

SinfulDarkLord said:

Good luck with those colored plastics. Should be awesome.

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I think it is! :grin:

Well, we'll see...I like the color, but the durability is a big question.

KenECoyote said:

LOL! How long have you been holding onto that image awaiting the occasion to post it? :wink:

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I've used it before a couple of times... It's always good to have a good collection of images... Just in case you want to put your own spin on something or the other.