Elmer's Wood Filler Woes

I'm Angry--
Holy Crap!

So my wife bought a small tube of wood filler, and when I opened the round cup, it was SCARLET!

I'm thinking, "This is going to make for a wild looking sanding job"...so I smear it on, trying to fill the spirals, and not waste it.
After a minute or two, I'm noticing the goo seems to be smearing some of the tan paint or surface color from the body tube, and swirling it into the goo.
I figure I better stop pushing it around and let it cure.

To my horror, I discover large patches of the scarlet goo have turned tan.... and the longer it sits, the more it turns tan.

After an hour, the entire stuff has turned over, and I have nothing but tan wood filler smeared all over my rocket.

So I break out the steel wool, figuring I will sand a bit of it off...and to my horror, I discover that it is rock hard!

The steel wool is fragmenting, but not removing any of the wood filler.

Is this stuff suppose to work this way??!!

If it wasn't this, yo wife got the wrong thing.

Gary Byrum said:

If it wasn't this, yo wife got the wrong thing.

View attachment 289970

Click to expand...

^^^^^^^^^^!

To answer your question, yes, Elmers wood filler dries hard. I have successfully removed clumps with: my finger nail, a single edge razor blade, small plastic used gift cards or some such tool. Never ever thought to try steel wool. The idea is apply it in such a way that you get maximum filler in the spiral and minimal filler anywhere else. Some of the many existing tutorials may be worth reviewing:

An old Apogee newsletter: https://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter147.pdf

Chris Michielssen's blog has several posts on the subject: https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/?_sm_au_=iVVPZ7ZNnJjNNFP8#uds-search-results (That didn't work exactly right, type "CWF" in the 'Search This Blog' box to get the posts I was referring to)

A picture of what you used would be a big help here since Elmer's has changed names and packaging many times over the years as well as having several flavors of filler. I'll go ahead and guess that you have some of the Color Change Wood Filler.



I haven't used this particular item but maybe one of the TRFers has. The basic idea is to thin the filler to a yellow mustard or pancake batter consistency and paint or trowel it into the spiral, then remove the excess with your favorite flat edge tool before it dries completely. As you've discovered, you create a lot of extra work if you're not careful. On larger diameter (+1 inch) airframes I've used masking tape on either side of the spiral to minimize cleanup.

samb said:

To answer your question, yes, Elmers wood filler dries hard. I have successfully removed clumps with: my finger nail, a single edge razor blade, small plastic used gift cards or some such tool. Never ever thought to try steel wool. The idea is apply it in such a way that you get maximum filler in the spiral and minimal filler anywhere else. Some of the many existing tutorials may be worth reviewing:

An old Apogee newsletter: https://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter147.pdf

Chris Michielssen's blog has several posts on the subject: https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/?_sm_au_=iVVPZ7ZNnJjNNFP8#uds-search-results

A picture of what you used would be a big help here since Elmer's has changed names and packaging many times over the years as well as having several flavors of filler. I'll go ahead and guess that you have some of the Color Change Wood Filler.

View attachment 290026

I haven't used this particular item but maybe one of the TRFers has. The basic idea is to thin the filler to a yellow mustard or pancake batter consistency and paint or trowel it into the spiral, then remove the excess with your favorite flat edge tool before it dries completely. As you've discovered, you create a lot of extra work if you're not careful. On larger diameter (+1 inch) airframes I've used masking tape on either side of the spiral to minimize cleanup.

Click to expand...

I have used the color change filler and IMO its the same as the regular stuff it just changes from pink when wet to white when dry. The stuff you really sont want to use is the Elmers Carpenters Wood Filler Max, that stuff is nasty to sand.

rharshberger said:

I have used the color change filler and IMO its the same as the regular stuff it just changes from pink when wet to white when dry. The stuff you really sont want to use is the Elmers Carpenters Wood Filler Max, that stuff is nasty to sand.

Click to expand...

Thank Rich. Is there a solvent that facilitates the color change ? The OP mentioned a reaction with the surface color; I'm guessing he's refinishing an "already built" model. The non-color change stuff like Gary and Skp pictured is water soluble and shouldn't react with the surface the way the OP describes.

samb said:

Thank Rich. Is there a solvent that facilitates the color change ? The OP mentioned a reaction with the surface color; I'm guessing he's refinishing an "already built" model. The non-color change stuff like Gary and Skp pictured is water soluble and shouldn't react with the surface the way the OP describes.

Click to expand...

There might be a solvent involved, however there is no obvious solvent smell.

samb said:

Thank Rich. Is there a solvent that facilitates the color change ? The OP mentioned a reaction with the surface color; I'm guessing he's refinishing an "already built" model. The non-color change stuff like Gary and Skp pictured is water soluble and shouldn't react with the surface the way the OP describes.

Click to expand...

I just used the color change stuff this weekend- I read his statement to mean he was surprised when it was changing from fuscia to tan/white- not that it was necessarily dissolving the substrate color, but OP can correct me/us. I never have any issues sanding it down, other than it's messy and I hate sanding. Little 220 knocks it into shape fairly quickly- just did both tubes for my Mad Cow AGM Pike, since I decided not to glass 'em. I like someone's suggestion of laying tape on either side of the groove, and did just that when I refinished my Aerotech fleet (built before I cared about looks) with Bondo spot putty (what a job!). Sometimes though the prep seems like too much work, at least until you come back the next day to clean up what was too much work in the first place!

soopirV said:

I just used the color change stuff this weekend- I read his statement to mean he was surprised when it was changing from fuscia to tan/white- not that it was necessarily dissolving the substrate color, but OP can correct me/us. I never have any issues sanding it down, other than it's messy and I hate sanding. Little 220 knocks it into shape fairly quickly- just did both tubes for my Mad Cow AGM Pike, since I decided not to glass 'em. I like someone's suggestion of laying tape on either side of the groove, and did just that when I refinished my Aerotech fleet (built before I cared about looks) with Bondo spot putty (what a job!). Sometimes though the prep seems like too much work, at least until you come back the next day to clean up what was too much work in the first place!

Click to expand...

You may be right, I hope we get some clarification from the OP. Did you water down the color change filler or use it straight out of the tub ? BTW, since CWF is a generally accepted acronyn for Carpenters Wood Filler I'll submit CCWF as a shortcut for Color Change Wood Filler.

samb said:

You may be right, I hope we get some clarification from the OP. Did you water down the color change filler or use it straight out of the tub ? BTW, since CWF is a generally accepted acronyn for Carpenters Wood Filler I'll submit CCWF as a shortcut for Color Change Wood Filler.

Click to expand...

Yup- like others here (probably where I learned it!) I thin it down to about a loose peanut butter consistency...maybe mayo, but a touch runnier. Mustard maybe? Dang, I'm hungry, gonna go make a sandwich.

soopirV said:

Yup- like others here (probably where I learned it!) I thin it down to about a loose peanut butter consistency...maybe mayo, but a touch runnier. Mustard maybe? Dang, I'm hungry, gonna go make a sandwich.

Click to expand...

Hey soopie....can I get a turkey sandwich? I'll be yer bestes friend......:grin:

Kirk G said:

... I'm noticing the goo seems to be smearing some of the tan paint or surface color from the body tube..

So I break out the steel wool, figuring I will sand a bit of it off...and to my horror, I discover that it is rock hard!...

Is this stuff suppose to work this way??!!

Click to expand...

Hmmm.

1 - Sounds like the body tube was already painted, not sure I would even attempt to use any filler at that point as there will be nearly zero adhesion between the filler and paint.

2 - Steel wool is NOT sand paper. I think sand paper would be more effective at sanding than steel wool.

3. From the Elmers website: "Elmer's Carpenter's Color Change Wood Filler (16oz) dries white although it appears purple when first applied to your interior wood projects. Watch as our Color Change Wood Filler goes from purple to white; after the change, you’re ready to paint, stain or sand!"

So yes, it is supposed to work that way: apply before other finishing, sand (with sandpaper) and then paint. I've used Elmers wood filler for many years and for model rockets it works very well. Not so much for HPR rockets - for those I use Bondo glazing and spot putty.

Good luck getting it sorted out,


Tony

I found that if I worked it pretty close to the shape I wanted, it will dry and cure, and then be sandable.
I abandoned the steel wool, and went with sand paper, and an orbital hand sander worked really well to take off the high spots.
All is well. The product worked JUST as it was supposed to. This was my first exposure to it.

Second: No, the tube was not pre-painted. The tan swirls in the purple/scarlet wood filler material was just it starting to cure, turn over/dry AS IT SHOULD....I was just totally unprepared to see this happen so quickly, and didn't understand what or why this was happening. I thought it might take overnight... instead of right there in my hands.

All is well, guys. Thanks for the feedback!

Glad to hear it worked out well. On some builds I think I have spent more time sanding than building. I get it all pretty and then my wife says "better take a picture in case it blows up" which reminds me of how fleeting it can all be.

But I still sand like crazy anyway.

Post a pic if you can.


Tony

manixFan said:

I get it all pretty and then my wife says "better take a picture in case it blows up" which reminds me of how fleeting it can all be.

But I still sand like crazy anyway.

Post a pic if you can.


Tony

Click to expand...

Literally lol'ed at that- is that helpful or passive aggressive?

soopirV said:

Literally lol'ed at that- is that helpful or passive aggressive?

Click to expand...

Based on reality, sadly. I had a really nice BSD Canadian Sprint that was just gorgeous with all those red decals. First flight the motor cato'd and destroyed all my hard work. That was back in 2002 or 2003 I think. Ever since then she says the same thing whenever I finish a rocket.

Fortunately she is very tolerant of my hobbies. As I like to say we operate on the ''don't ask, don't tell' policy. She doesn't ask how much it all costs and I don't tell!


Tony

I usually put it on with a putty knife and scratch excess off while applying it. I have a small tub and its purple. Dries white when it cures. Sands like butter and works great. For balsa I just use Aero-gloss sealer. Doesn't make such a mess when sanding and won't warp the balsa

soopirV said:

Yup- like others here (probably where I learned it!) I thin it down to about a loose peanut butter consistency...maybe mayo, but a touch runnier. Mustard maybe? Dang, I'm hungry, gonna go make a sandwich.

Click to expand...

CWF and jelly?