AEROTECH G FORCE LAUNCH PIC and CRASH

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I'm going to try a -7 in it soon, either this month at Moffett or February. It should be a bit after apogee but still fly safe.
 
SCrocketfan said:
I'm going to try a -7 in it soon, either this month at Moffett or February. It should be a bit after apogee but still fly safe.
Click to expand...

I ordered mostly 4-second delay motors in my Wildman order because that's what was recommended for the kit, and I can use the same motor in the pod rocket. But I think most of my sims said 5.5 seconds was ideal for most of the motors. That is exactly between 4 and 7 seconds. Usually when that's the case, it's better to go shorter, in case of a flight that goes wonky. But I prefer the looks of a flight that arcs over and deploys at or after apogee. It seems like 7 seconds should be fine.
 
ThirstyBarbarian said:
I ordered mostly 4-second delay motors in my Wildman order because that's what was recommended for the kit, and I can use the same motor in the pod rocket. But I think most of my sims said 5.5 seconds was ideal for most of the motors. That is exactly between 4 and 7 seconds. Usually when that's the case, it's better to go shorter, in case of a flight that goes wonky. But I prefer the looks of a flight that arcs over and deploys at or after apogee. It seems like 7 seconds should be fine.
Click to expand...

I currently have 1 G with a 4 second delay, and 3 with 7 second delays. I'll probably try a 7 second one next, and I'll run an altimeter2 to see how long the coast to apogee is. The Crayon has the same problem apparently (haven't flown it on G's yet), 4 seconds deploys significantly before apogee and 7 seconds is a bit too long. I mostly have -7s so I can fly them in my Leviathan, Argent, and MDRM.
 
crazyed said:
Mr. Barbarian:)
sounds like you got that figured out pretty well. The shock cord on my GForce did tangle alot and twist up. What you are describing there should fix that and if you dont mind i will say i would use those techniques on my future build. Also the Nomex is sounding good. . It seems your G FORCE will be quite a rocket. Share some pics if you dont mind of the build and launch when the time comes as Im sure you will. One thought I had for my next G FORCE was a boat tail for performance and some means of protecting the bottom airframe as it did tend to get some damage.
Click to expand...

Mr Crazy :p

I wanted to show the recovery setup I used.

I originally set this up with the included shock cord, with about a 5-foot piece connected between the NC and swivel, and the rest of the cord between the BT and swivel. On one flight the cord did tangle itself a bit, even though I think it was packed in a good way. I think the cord is kind of stiff and "springy" for a nice z-fold. It wants to spring apart, and maybe that contributes to the problem. It is also not smooth and "slippery," so I think it can catch on itself as it uncoils. On the second flight it did fine. But i still wanted to swap it out for something I think will work better. I already have a 12-foot tubular nylon cord from Top Flight Recovery that I can use between the BT and swivel, and I'm using paracord for the NC to swivel section.

Here are the pics. For some reason the system is not letting me resize them as usual, but if you click on the picture, it will expand for a better view.

This is the basic recovery layout, with the quick links not yet connected into the eyebols. Starting from the left, the quick link will connect the harness to the eyebolt mounted inside the lower booster part of the rocket. That quick link is attached to 12 feet of red tubular nylon strap. The other end of the nylon shock cord goes through the hole in the nomex blanket. It is attached to another quick link, which is also attached to the parachute swivel and to the end of the paracord. There is another quick link on the other end of the paracord, and that will attach to the eyebolt in the upper payload section of the rocket.

G-Force-Recovery-Setup01.jpg

This is how I pack it all up. In the pic above, the parachute is laid out with the gores flaked out to the sides, and the shroud line attachment points all gathered together in the middle. Three gores to the left side, and three gores to the right, with the shroud lines laid in the middle.

Below, I fold the gores over the lines in the middle to make the chute more compact.

G-Force-Recovery-Setup02.jpg

Now I fold the chute over itself a couple of times to get a bundle that is about 5 or 6 inches long --- something that will fit the length of the recovery bay or a little bit less and will fit inside the folded nomex. The G-Force has the recovery gear all inside the 6-inch coupler, so not longer than 6 inches. The shroud lines are all folded inside the chute, not wrapped around it.

G-Force-Recovery-Setup03.jpg

Fold the nomex over the chute, and then roll it from the side until it is tight.


G-Force-Recovery-Setup04.jpg

Get the shock cord pieces folded into a decent z-fold, not coiled around each other or the "burrito" --- folded so there is no twist. Here's everything folded up an about ready to be loaded into the recovery bay.


G-Force-Recovery-Setup06.jpg

Here it all is tucked up inside the recovery bay. The burrito has the closed end toward the bottom where the ejection charge will be. The z-folded shock cords are tucked in next to the burrito. When the ejection charge fires, the momentum of the two separating rocket parts will pull the red shock cord out of the recovery bay, and that will pull out the burrito. It all fits loose enough, there should be no problem with momentum pulling it all out.

G-Force-Recovery-Setup07.jpg

Anyway, that's how I've set it up. If you or anyone else has any comments or suggestions, that would be great!
 
ThirstyBarbarian said:
Really nice recovery setup
Click to expand...

This is basically the setup I use on mine, although I use the stock shock cord mostly (I may use a LOC 18 foot tubular nylon harness in the future) and a square 12" nomex. Keeping the shock cord from the chute to the nose cone fairly short is a really good idea, or you can get even more line tangling. One thing for Moffett is that you probably want a slightly larger chute (40-45").

By the way, really nice paint setup, the details on the payload bay look great!
 
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SCrocketfan said:
This is basically the setup I use on mine, although I use the stock shock cord mostly (I may use a LOC 18 foot tubular nylon harness in the future) and a square 12" nomex. Keeping the shock cord from the chute to the nose cone fairly short is a really good idea, or you can get even more line tangling. One thing for Moffett is that you probably want a slightly larger chute (40-45").

By the way, really nice paint setup, the details on the payload bay look great!
Click to expand...

Thanks, SC. The description for the G-Force, either on the website or the box says the chute is 42 inches, but I don't think it is. I haven't measured it, but it looks smaller than that. I think the chute I originally bought for the pod rocket is 45" so maybe I can try that. The one nice thing about the included chute is that it is very thin mill material, so it folds up nice and compact when rolled in the nomex. I'd have to see how well the TFR chute rolls up. If it's too tight, then that could be an issue.

On thing is was wondering is whether the shock cord is adequately protected. It does not seem like the shock cord should be inside the blanket with the chute. That leaves it exposed to ejection gases. When I do this same kind of setup in other rockets, I still put a small bit of wadding or dog barf in the bottom to protect the cord a bit. I had an idea for using a small scrap of nomex to help with that, and I did take a pic. I'll post that in a bit to see what you think.

Thanks for the compliments on the paint job. This paint job has been through so many iterations!

You remember that for the first flight, I had decorated the white primer with a ton of colored masking tape? That was sort of a first temporary iteration.

For the real paint job, I started out using fluorescent paint and had planned a sort of sounding rocket scheme. It was going to have a red-orange nose come and payload section, with the decal setting off the payload section. And the fins were going to be two fluorescent red-orange and one fluorescent yellow. Recovery and propulsion sections would be white. I planned to use metal tape to set off different functional sections of the rocket --- NC, payload section, recovery section, and propulsion section.

Well, I had all kinds of trouble with the fluorescent paint with a very blotchy effect happening on the NC. I finally got it to be semi-satisfactory and put some clear coat on it. But when I painted the payload section, the paint crazed really badly and could not be redeemed, so I sanded it all off and started again with a glossy black, which I figured would really show off the decal nicely. By then I had completely given up on the fluorescent, so I painted the fins the red and yellow you see in the pic. I put the decal on the black payload section and put the metallic tape on per the original plan.

When I assembled it all together --- wow --- it looked like parts sf three different great-looking rockets that really didn't really go together. The shiny red-orange NC looked ok but didn't match the rest, because the red-orange was now not used anywhere else to tie it in. The black payload section with the metallic tape and decal looked awesome! But it didn't fit in with the rest. And the bottom sections --- recovery and propulsion, with white tubes and red and yellow fins had a pretty good sounding-rocket look, but didn't go with the top! It was sort of a Frankenstein's monster rocket.

If I had been able to make it to the launch on Saturday, you could have seen that iteration. But since I was stuck at home, I decided to sand off the NC and repaint the bottom section to go more with the awesome decal on the payload section. The NC is now the red color of the red fins. The white part of the recovery section is also that same red and so is the yellow fin to match the other fins. Once it all dries, I'll mask off the fins and do the propulsion section black too. So basically: red NC, red, recovery section, red fins, black payload section with snazzy decal, black propulsion section, silver tape separating all the sections. Iteration 3!

I'll post some pics once I get it finished.

Iteration 4 will be like iteration 3, except for scuffs, dings, and chips from landing on concrete at Moffett! Why do I spend the time on something that will just get thrashed?
 
ThirstyBarbarian said:
Thanks, SC. The description for the G-Force, either on the website or the box says the chute is 42 inches, but I don't think it is. I haven't measured it, but it looks smaller than that. I think the chute I originally bought for the pod rocket is 45" so maybe I can try that. The one nice thing about the included chute is that it is very thin mill material, so it folds up nice and compact when rolled in the nomex. I'd have to see how well the TFR chute rolls up. If it's too tight, then that could be an issue.

On thing is was wondering is whether the shock cord is adequately protected. It does not seem like the shock cord should be inside the blanket with the chute. That leaves it exposed to ejection gases. When I do this same kind of setup in other rockets, I still put a small bit of wadding or dog barf in the bottom to protect the cord a bit. I had an idea for using a small scrap of nomex to help with that, and I did take a pic. I'll post that in a bit to see what you think.

Thanks for the compliments on the paint job. This paint job has been through so many iterations!

You remember that for the first flight, I had decorated the white primer with a ton of colored masking tape? That was sort of a first temporary iteration.

For the real paint job, I started out using fluorescent paint and had planned a sort of sounding rocket scheme. It was going to have a red-orange nose come and payload section, with the decal setting off the payload section. And the fins were going to be two fluorescent red-orange and one fluorescent yellow. Recovery and propulsion sections would be white. I planned to use metal tape to set off different functional sections of the rocket --- NC, payload section, recovery section, and propulsion section.

Well, I had all kinds of trouble with the fluorescent paint with a very blotchy effect happening on the NC. I finally got it to be semi-satisfactory and put some clear coat on it. But when I painted the payload section, the paint crazed really badly and could not be redeemed, so I sanded it all off and started again with a glossy black, which I figured would really show off the decal nicely. By then I had completely given up on the fluorescent, so I painted the fins the red and yellow you see in the pic. I put the decal on the black payload section and put the metallic tape on per the original plan.

When I assembled it all together --- wow --- it looked like parts sf three different great-looking rockets that really didn't really go together. The shiny red-orange NC looked ok but didn't match the rest, because the red-orange was now not used anywhere else to tie it in. The black payload section with the metallic tape and decal looked awesome! But it didn't fit in with the rest. And the bottom sections --- recovery and propulsion, with white tubes and red and yellow fins had a pretty good sounding-rocket look, but didn't go with the top! It was sort of a Frankenstein's monster rocket.

If I had been able to make it to the launch on Saturday, you could have seen that iteration. But since I was stuck at home, I decided to sand off the NC and repaint the bottom section to go more with the awesome decal on the payload section. The NC is now the red color of the red fins. The white part of the recovery section is also that same red and so is the yellow fin to match the other fins. Once it all dries, I'll mask off the fins and do the propulsion section black too. So basically: red NC, red, recovery section, red fins, black payload section with snazzy decal, black propulsion section, silver tape separating all the sections. Iteration 3!

I'll post some pics once I get it finished.

Iteration 4 will be like iteration 3, except for scuffs, dings, and chips from landing on concrete at Moffett! Why do I spend the time on something that will just get thrashed?
Click to expand...

I think the stock chute is 36". I wouldn't worry much about shock cord protection, but a bit of nomex would definitely help. Sounds like you had quite the painting problems, glad you got it to work and I look forward to seeing the new paint scheme.

I've kind of given up on painting Moffett rockets now. I'm getting another crayon (a yellow or red 29mm one) specifically for flying at moffett since I really like how the airframe flies but don't want to beat up my blue 38mm one at moffett.
 
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Here is the idea for the cord protection. I had a piece of 12x12 nomex blanket that was way too big for my Big Daddy and not quite as flameproof as I imagined. The first time I tried it, I had no idea what I was doing, and everything was crammed in way too tight. I ended up getting a hole burned through the blanket right in the center, making the blanket pretty much useless. So I cut out a quarter of the blanket, ending up with a square about 4.5 x 4.5".

I used the piece with the "button hole" sewn in it, and I slipped that over the over the eyebolt in the baffle before the quick link at end of the shock cord.

G-Force-Recovery-Setup10.jpg

I agree that protecting the cord is not a great concern, but everything still fits together fine, so I don't see any harm in adding it in. It may help protect the part of the cord that would otherwise be in direct contact with the vents from the baffle.
 
ThirstyBarbarian said:
Here is the idea for the cord protection. I had a piece of 12x12 nomex blanket that was way too big for my Big Daddy and not quite as flameproof as I imagined. The first time I tried it, I had no idea what I was doing, and everything was crammed in way too tight. I ended up getting a hole burned through the blanket right in the center, making the blanket pretty much useless. So I cut out a quarter of the blanket, ending up with a square about 4.5 x 4.5".

I used the piece with the "button hole" sewn in it, and I slipped that over the over the eyebolt in the baffle before the quick link at end of the shock cord.

View attachment 252352

I agree that protecting the cord is not a great concern, but everything still fits together fine, so I don't see any harm in adding it in. It may help protect the part of the cord that would otherwise be in direct contact with the vents from the baffle.
Click to expand...

The recovery system on your G-Force is Killer. Not to mention the finish work..Great job!!! AND THANKS.
 
crazyed said:
The recovery system on your G-Force is Killer. Not to mention the finish work..Great job!!! AND THANKS.
Click to expand...

You're welcome! And thank you for the compliments. When I got this rocket, I told myself I was building it mostly stock, and not bothering with too much finish work, because it was just going to get thrashed on my club's concrete field. Now look what happened...
 
ThirstyBarbarian said:
You should definitely build another one! I think this is going to be a favorite of mine.

I finally got mine finished the way I like. Here it is posed with the Full Barbarian (a sight seldom seen on TRF):

View attachment 253400

Here is a link to the G-Force Gallery with more pics and more details: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...-FORCE-(-89021)-Gallery&p=1416184#post1416184
Click to expand...

I cant type what I said out loud when I saw this. Awesome job. Seriously killer job on that G FORCE !!!!!
 
Sorry*******lost all personal pics to this thread to date*****
 

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