SpaceX Falcon 9 historic landing thread (1st landing attempt & most recent missions)

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Certainly is getting exciting now...

Don't feel bad for Musk...

He is one of the worlds biggest...

Welfare queens and would be...

Nothing if not for the taxpayers...
Yeah, if only ALL "welfare queens" were like this:

April 18, 2011

https://www.thespacereview.com/article/1826/1

While SpaceX had made no secret of its plans to pursue a heavy version of the Falcon 9 booster, the numbers attributed to it did come as something of a surprise: 53,000 kilograms to LEO at about $100 million per launch for commercial customers.

No doubt it was a surprise United Launch Alliance (ULA) officials were not very happy to hear, given the fact that the Delta IV served as Musk’s point of comparison, and it wasn’t pretty. In short, according to Musk, the Falcon Heavy will offer approximately twice the performance of the Delta IV Heavy at approximately one third the cost; or, as he helpfully added, six times the value. Determining the actual price of a Delta or Atlas is not an easy proposition, a tactic Musk compared to a rug bazaar in that the price is determined by what the vendor perceives the buyer can pay. At the moment, the buyer is the US government, and it is paying dearly.

Assuming the Falcon Heavy’s numbers are accurate, the pricing and performance figures offered in Musk’s presentation raise a number of very interesting and, no doubt to some, uncomfortable questions. They also have the potential to completely alter the basis of what currently passes for space policy.

First, the uncomfortable questions. Given the fact that the SpaceX Falcon rockets are not based on any radical technological breakthrough that lowered their costs, one has to ask just how bad a deal has the taxpayer been getting from the Atlas V and Delta IV, products of the legacy aerospace establishment? Soon to be deprived of the hyper-expensive Space Shuttle as their own point of comparison, the answer would appear to be much worse than we ever imagined.


Using the figures in the old article above, that's $1887/kg to LEO for the still theoretical FH.

F9 v1.1 - 13,150 kg to LEO for $62 million = $4715/kg to LEO (and they haven't even begun the reuse of 1st stages)

Cheapest ULA cost to LEO using lowest end Atlas V (401): 9,800 kg to LEO; in 2015, an Atlas V 401 cost $132.4 million; $13,510/kg to LEO.

And they (ULA and the previous concerns before the merger that are now part of it) have been getting away with those prices and worse for how many decades now?
 
From Spaceflight Now:

12:39
A SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket exploded in the final minutes of a simulated countdown at Cape Canaveral on Thursday, destroying the booster and an Israeli communications satellite valued at nearly $200 million.

The mishap on Cape Canaveral's Complex 40 launch pad Thursday will raise questions about the reliability of the Falcon 9 booster, which is slated to haul up cargo to the International Space Station, launch dozens of commercial satellites, and eventually send astronauts into orbit.

The 229-foot-tall (70-meter) launcher exploded at 9:07 a.m. EDT (1307 GMT), a few minutes before a planned ignition of the rocket's nine Merlin main engines for a brief "static fire" test designed to wring out problems with the launch pad and the vehicle.

The Falcon 9 was scheduled to blast off early Saturday with the Amos 6 satellite, a commercial television and Internet broadcast platform owned by Spacecom Ltd. of Israel.

The mishap at Cape Canaveral on Thursday destroyed the rocket and the Amos 6 satellite, SpaceX said in a statement. No injuries were reported.

Images captured in the aftermath of the explosion showed black smoke and flames billowing from the launch pad, and apparent damage to the metal strongback tower that feeds electricity, purge air and propellants into the rocket. Nearby structures, such as the launch pad's rocket integration hangar and four lightning towers, appeared intact.

Saturday's launch was supposed to be the 29th flight of a Falcon 9 rocket. Another SpaceX launcher disintegrated about two minutes after a liftoff in June 2015 with a Dragon supply ship heading for the space station, but the company had logged nine successful flights in a row since resuming launch operations in December.

Before today's incident, SpaceX had at least 10 launches left to execute before the end of this year, according to statements from the company's numerous customers about their intentions. Next up after the Amos 6 launch was the first of seven satellite deployment flights from Vandenberg Air Force Base, California, on Sept. 19 for Iridium's next-generation mobile communications constellation.

In October, SpaceX planned to fly a recycled Falcon 9 first stage for the first time with the SES 10 communications satellite to provide coverage over Latin America. SapceX and SES announced the first-of-its-kind reusable launch agreement earlier this week.

SpaceX's next space station cargo mission was on track for liftoff in November with several tons of supplies and experiments, including an externally-mounted package of U.S. Air Force research investigations and a multimillion-dollar NASA instrument to study Earth's ozone layer.

3:11
SpaceX boss Elon Musk has tweeted an update on the cause of today's launch pad explosion: "Loss of Falcon vehicle today during propellant fill operation. Originated around upper stage oxygen tank. Cause still unknown. More soon."
 
It happens. Rocket is not a car. Especially biger are huge barrel of fuel and oxidizer. The important thing is that no dead people.
 
Oh man:

[video=youtube;_BgJEXQkjNQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BgJEXQkjNQ[/video]

Super glad everybody is okay.
 
Last edited:
Wow what a video! You can see the whole payload section fall and explode as well. So unfortunate.

Crazy how the source of the problem of both F9 explosions has been in the upper stage.
 
Just made this from adjacent video frames. Looks highly energetic from the first instant. If this was a LOX/H2 stage, I'd say it was a mix of those gasses initiated by a static discharge (foggy day) or some electrical spark at the umbilical.

Since it's LOX/RP1, could it be a rupture of a second stage tank during fueling/pressurization? Another He tank support strut failure? Maybe they didn't actually nail the problem from that previous launch failure caused by the 2nd stage over-pressurization failure.

29281231662_c83bba1f4e_o.jpg
 
Wow, that's pretty spectacular. I've never seen one light from the TOP before... it looks like the engines didn't even light.
 
Does anyone know what are these fire tests before start?I can not remember of another rocket in which it is practiced.What is the sense of them after the engine was conducted fire test?
 
Last edited:
Maybe the Falcon 9 uses...

The same batteries as Tesla...

You seem to have something seriously against Musk. He is innovating, and setting up competition where there was in essence none. Not sure what your hang up is, but he and Space X are the real deal. Government money- you bet. So does everyone else in this business get money from the Feds.

He is at least accomplishing something. You can rag on him all you want, but I bet there is nothing you have ever done that compares to his accomplishments. Easy to be a back seat driver, but a lot different to be something of a visionary. So, tell me of your great accomplishments kidrocket.
 
Wow, that's pretty spectacular. I've never seen one light from the TOP before... it looks like the engines didn't even light.

It appears something let loose in the upper stage. I do not think they got to the static test yet.
 
Wow that was an energetic explosion all right, and it certainly appears to have originated at or very near the second stage. To my ignorant eye it appears right around where it is being filled...will be interesting to hear the postmortem and fall-out.

As for Musk being a welfare queen. I would say it really depends on what sources you are getting your information from and what you chose to believe. Here is an article where Musk speaks directly to some of those negative claims and his position certainly seems reasonable and believable to me, but who really knows.

https://www.businessinsider.com/elo...en-about-depending-on-government-money-2015-6
 
Correct, it occurred before the static test had begun. Also Musk tweeted it had something to do with second stage fuel loading I believe. Need to find that quote.
 
It is interesting that the payload section survived the initial explosion intact and then toppled into the inferno below. I wonder if this indicates that the launch abort system for the Dragon capsule could have gotten it out of the fireball successfully.
 
It is interesting that the payload section survived the initial explosion intact and then toppled into the inferno below. I wonder if this indicates that the launch abort system for the Dragon capsule could have gotten it out of the fireball successfully.

I think "keep crew alive in prelaunch catastrophe" is on the short list of important design goals for such a system :grin:
 
SpaceX reminds me of the exciting early days of the Space Program --- pushing the limits, trying things that have never been done before, ambitious plans, aggressive schedules, and epic explosions!
 
Good Gawd almighty !
Haven't heard anything like that since Wallops........

[video=youtube;MZ0SgAU9LXI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ0SgAU9LXI[/video]

If you look/listen carefully, you should be able to see a small plane off to the left side of the rocket. I was taking pictures of that rocket from the plane about 5 miles away :)
DSC_1193.jpg
 
I'm with you Thirsty on this one. Sure does remind me of the 60's. Seams no matter WHO pushes the envelope, it's us little people that flip the bill every time with tax dollars.

SpaceX reminds me of the exciting early days of the Space Program --- pushing the limits, trying things that have never been done before, ambitious plans, aggressive schedules, and epic explosions!
 
Ugh.

Wow, I prepared for a bike ride this morning, did 28 miles, got back, took a nap, went to a grand opening of a Golden Corral, get back, go online, and find out about this pad explosion.

A few tidbits to add, that I’ve found, first on Twitter:

‏@scrappydog


@elonmusk Would the Dragon escape pod have survived this event?

@elonmusk
@scrappydog yes. This seems instant from a human perspective, but it really a fast fire, not an explosion. Dragon would have been fine.

And this observation. Bad enough that unlike an inflight failure, this also extremely damaged the pad. The Erector-Transporter is even bent at the top from the payload section being momentarily supported by it until the payload section tilted over and broke free (not designed to support the payload vertically, designed to support the rocket horizontally near the top after raising to vertical).

Launch insurance does not cover this because..... no launch attempt. But the payload was insured as "Marine Cargo" during pre-launch. What I do not know offhand is whether launch insurance for a Falcon-9 flight also covers the rocket, or only covers the payload. If launch insurance does cover the rocket, then SpaceX took an even bigger financial hit on this happening on the pad and not during launch. They already incurred the cost of towing the landing barge OCISLY since it needed to head out to sea days in advance of the launch, though it will be returning early and cost somewhat less than a normal recovery attempt.
 
It became a clear reason? In general, in an environment with a high concentration of oxygen almost all burns, even some things spontaneously.A small accidental spark may static electricity and...
 
Once detonated by tests second stage of the Saturn V. The reason was faulty welding container with inert gas.
 
Does anyone know what are these fire tests before start?I can not remember of another rocket in which it is practiced.What is the sense of them after the engine was conducted fire test?

The fire and explosion, in this case, happened before the test fire during the fueling operations.

Every rocket does a test fire in the days before launch.

Test fire, in this case, had not yet happened.

Does that answer your questions?
 
Wow, This is somewhat disturbing. I work for EchoStar, which is the company that prototypes satellite TV product for Dishnetwork and other companies.
I don't work in the EchoStar Space Systems division, but they are scheduled to launch a couple of new DishNetwork sats later this year. The contracted launch vehicle is the SpaceX Falcon 9......
 
Back
Top